3.5 Any armor property to automatically repairs itself? [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.5 Any armor property to automatically repairs itself? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Harmor
07-11-04, 06:14 AM I know about the material that automatically heals itself, but I'm talking about a +# armor property that automatically heals itself, including magic damage?

Remember, Make Whole does not repair magic damage.

For reference:

Make Whole
Transmutation
Level: Clr 2
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One object of up to 10 cu. ft./ level

This spell functions like Mending, except that make whole completely repairs an object made of any substance, even one with multiple breaks, to be as strong as new. The spell does not restore the magical abilities of a broken magic item made whole, and it cannot mend broken magic rods, staffs, or wands. The spell does not repair items that have been warped, burned, disintegrated, ground to powder, melted, or vaporized, nor does it affect creatures (including constructs).

My GM ruled that only Limited, wish could repair an item that has been damaged from magic damage.

What do you think of this:

Repairing: This shield or armor seems very sturdy. Its surface is completely devoid of scrapes or bumps that would make the shield or armor look likes its used - it looks brand new. Once per day, it can be called on to completely repair itself back to new.

Strong abjuration; CL 13th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Limited wish or Miracle; Price +3 bonus
Edward
07-11-04, 08:14 AM As there are so few ways equipment can be damaged (including it being imposable to deliberately damage somebody’s armour other than a shield) there usually is not much point. If you want it I would say giving your armour “fast healing 1 or 2” would be worth a +1 bonus or maybe a flat 2-4000gp. Of cause once the armour is broken (all its hp gone) the magic will cease to function. Once any magic item reaches that state it is only reparable at cost of half its enchantment cost with the same requirements as enchanting from new. You would need to use a spell such as Make Whole before re enchanting (I think you should be able to repair a wand staff or rod but it will not repair its magical function.

Once the items physical structure is completely gone (burned to nothing, disintegrated, vaporised, melted (not just bits melted off but completely gone to a puddle) you are talking wish to get it back.

Edward
Seeker95
07-11-04, 10:09 AM As Edward intimated, damage to armor is not really an integral game mechanic. It is either good, or broken. So what you are proposing is more flavor than mechanics.

However, in my campaign, characters must pay a maintenance fee to keep their armor and weapons in good working order. They pay a monthly fee equal to 10% of the market value of the armor and weapons (ignoring enhancements, etc.) A magical suit of full plate costs the same to maintain as a normal suit of full plate. Maintenance costs are based on normal market prices.

If the characters do not pay this fee (and do not have an appropriate craft skill to do it themselves) they suffer penalties. Penalties are cumulative, -1 per month of neglect.

Paying the maintenance fees (including those in arrears, up to the replacement cost of the item) will restore it to normal functionality.

I bring this up because in my campaign, your proposed enhancement would have a mechanics-based impact.

I would recommend making it a flat price enhancement. Make whole is a 2nd level spell, leading to an assumed 2 x 3 x 2000gp price of 12,000gp. However, I think you could legitimately get the same results from mending -- a zero level spell. Total price: 500gp to make your armor or weapon "maintenance-free".
Edymnion
07-11-04, 03:57 PM In my game *poke poke Seeker*, I don't really get too much into gear upkeep. I see basic maintanence as being part of the Armor Proficiency. You know how to adjust straps properly, you know hot to knock out a dent from metal armor, etc. I mean, the FIRST thing you should ever learn about your weapon or your armor is not how to use it, but how to do upkeep on it.
Veton
07-11-04, 04:07 PM From the 3.5 SRD
REPAIRING MAGIC ITEMS
Some magic items take damage over the course of an adventure. It costs no more to repair a magic item with the Craft skill than it does to repair its nonmagical counterpart. The make whole spell also repairs a damaged—but not completely broken—magic item.
Harmor
07-11-04, 06:09 PM Yes, but that can take weeks if not months.

Not really helpful when the ogre barbarian is sundering though you shield...
Tsuul
07-11-04, 06:44 PM From Harmor:
My GM ruled that only Limited, wish could repair an item that has been damaged from magic damage.

??? Are you saying that somehow your gear is taking damage from magical sources, and because of this it can not be repaired without Limited Wish? That's just wrong. If the Item is destroyed (by mundain or magical sources) then you have a big problem and limited wish (as ruled by your DM) is the way to fix it. But damged gear (not destroyed) can indeed be repaired. Even if that damaged gear is magical. The magic doesn't leave till it's destroyed.
bitnine
07-11-04, 10:28 PM You should probably reread that highlighted section. Make Whole does not restore magical properties to a broken magic item. Make Whole cannot mend broken spell items. However, it can be used to repair magical armor or weapons - as long as they aren't destroyed completely. Equally useful is a simple craft check. The spell's wording is a little unclear, however, so you might want to also check out the appropriate section for magic items in the DMG:DAMAGING MAGIC ITEMS

A magic item doesn’t need to make a saving throw unless it is unattended, it is specifically targeted by the effect, or its wielder rolls a natural 1 on his save. Magic items should always get a saving throw against spells that might deal damage to them— even against attacks from which a nonmagical item would normally get no chance to save. Magic items use the same saving throw bonus for all saves, no matter what the type (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will). A magic item’s saving throw bonus equals 2 + one-half its caster level (round down). The only exceptions to this are intelligent magic items, which make Will saves based on their own Wisdom scores.

Magic items, unless otherwise noted, take damage as nonmagical items of the same sort. A damaged magic item continues to function, but if it is destroyed, all its magical power is lost.

REPAIRING MAGIC ITEMS

Some magic items take damage over the course of an adventure. It costs no more to repair a magic item with the Craft skill than it does to repair its nonmagical counterpart. The make whole spell also repairs a damaged—but not completely broken—magic item.
BlackSmith
07-12-04, 02:30 AM no, it takes not forver.
just drop the item for a REAL blacksmith and stop medling with your characteres craft: armor +4 skill.

works nice by the rules.
but Seekers idea/way is not bad either.
even if i DO agree with edy here, keeping EQ at shape does take some money also.
geting new leather straps and geting weapon oil is not THAT cheap after all.
Edward
07-12-04, 05:01 AM If you want some degree of realism you should make a distinction between armour maintenance and armour repair.

Maintenance is fairly cheep. Even on full plate a bottle of polishing oil and a rag will last for some time and you will need to replace the odd strap and clean (even replace) the padding but this is all fairly cheep stuff and how to do it should be intrinsic in being proficient with the armour.

Repair is for actual damage from a fight. Filing the hols from eth crossbow that penetrated the plate, to replacing or rebuilding the shoulder guard because the barbarians axe shattered it. This is the domain of an armour with the craft skill or a make whole spell. And could cost a significant amount of money but if you don’t have to fight in a month it wont need doing at all. In order to apply this you need to have a way of quantifying damage to armour however.

Edward
ArchmageOmega
07-12-04, 07:22 AM One of my houserules for my next game is that on a critcal, the armor the opponent is wearing also takes damage. However, I'm using vitality/wound points, so the criticals don't do x4 damage or anything. (It's set in Ravenloft, so I imagine it will give them a good scare every now and then.)
Thelon Fairblade
07-12-04, 09:34 AM I thought there was a "+1 bonus" power that did self-repair already, but I can't seem to find it. Called something like "Living"

Wait, here. IT is a special material, from BoED:

Aurorum (pink and indigo steel): if item is sundered, it can be reformed by brining pieces back together (full-round action). +4000 gp

or, from FRCS:

Living Metal: iron mined from near powerful sources of life energy (druid circles, etc.), light grey-green color
Weight: as steel; Hardness 10; HP 30/inch; favored in rings of regeneration; heals 1 HP per minute
Weapons: (no effect) [+100gp/lb]
Armor: after 1 tenday, +1 Max Dex, -1 ACP, -5% ASF [+700/+2000/+4500]
miclops77
07-12-04, 10:58 AM I dont know if this helps but in the BOED there is a special material you can make your armor out of called Allorium, it takes a full round action to reform itself after being sundered.
tarkin
07-12-04, 11:00 AM The fact that a spell can not normally be used to heal the magic item does NOT mean that a magic item of self-repairing can not be based on that spell.

Magic item properties are based on spells, they are not always identical to them.
miclops77
07-12-04, 11:01 AM Originally posted by Thelon Fairblade
I thought there was a "+1 bonus" power that did self-repair already, but I can't seem to find it. Called something like "Living"

Wait, here. IT is a special material, from BoED:

Aurorum (pink and indigo steel): if item is sundered, it can be reformed by brining pieces back together (full-round action). +4000 gp

or, from FRCS:

Living Metal: iron mined from near powerful sources of life energy (druid circles, etc.), light grey-green color
Weight: as steel; Hardness 10; HP 30/inch; favored in rings of regeneration; heals 1 HP per minute
Weapons: (no effect) [+100gp/lb]
Armor: after 1 tenday, +1 Max Dex, -1 ACP, -5% ASF [+700/+2000/+4500]

OOPS:angel: missed this one. Is Aurorum the correct spelling?
BlackSmith
07-12-04, 11:30 AM also, there is thing called living metal in MoF at page 179 that can "heal" itself.
Amaron Blackthorn
07-12-04, 11:48 AM Originally posted by miclops77
I dont know if this helps but in the BOED there is a special material you can make your armor out of called Allorium, it takes a full round action to reform itself after being sundered.

Is armor often sundered in your games Miclops? If not, what is the point of having this armor?
Thelon Fairblade
07-12-04, 01:33 PM Fail your save against a 40-pt lightning bolt with a 1. Bye bye armor.

Fail your save against an 84-pt black dragon breath with a 1. Bye bye armor.

See the trend? The odds are slim (5% on each massive damage attack) without modifying the rules, but still possible. It should be a minor effect, though, unles using house rules for sundering armor and simliar effects.
Seeker95
07-12-04, 02:09 PM Originally posted by Thelon Fairblade
Fail your save against a 40-pt lightning bolt with a 1. Bye bye armor. Fail your save against an 84-pt black dragon breath with a 1. Bye bye armor. See the trend?Bye bye in any case. The armor is not just broken. It is destroyed. No amount of repair or maintenance is going to help.

What is needed is resurrect armor and not make whole!
Amaron Blackthorn
07-12-04, 02:23 PM Resurrection only works on something that was living. Metal, Steel, ores, etc, were never living. DUH!
Seeker95
07-12-04, 03:43 PM Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn
Resurrection only works on something that was living. Metal, Steel, ores, etc, were never living. DUH! On the off chance that you are being even remotely serious on this...

Are you serious?
Are you really serious?
Did you just forget the smiley face?
Or are you being serious?
Harmor
07-12-04, 06:41 PM You can't use Make Whole when the damage was from magic.

Shields and weapons get sundered frequently...

Armor, unless you have somekind of house rule, cannot be sundered.

In my case I have a +1 Darkwood Towershield that always gets sundered or damaged by spells.

I currently have 16 points of damage from a Fireball, but cannot use Make Whole to fix it.

My GM said that the only spell I can use to fix it is a Limited Wish, which basically means I have to find someone 13th level to cast it and cost 300 XP to fix.
BlackSmith
07-12-04, 06:49 PM REEaaaly?
Make Whole
This spell functions like mending, except that make whole completely repairs an object made of any substance, even one with multiple breaks, to be as strong as new. The spell does not restore the magical abilities of a broken magic item made whole, and it cannot mend broken magic rods, staffs, or wands. The spell does not repair items that have been warped, burned, disintegrated, ground to powder, melted, or vaporized, nor does it affect creatures (including constructs).to me it does repair them.
might be that there is some small print but my eyes register ok for repairing.
Harmor
07-12-04, 07:14 PM Make Whole
This spell functions like mending, except that make whole completely repairs an object made of any substance, even one with multiple breaks, to be as strong as new. The spell does not restore the magical abilities of a broken magic item made whole, and it cannot mend broken magic rods, staffs, or wands. The spell does not repair items that have been warped, burned, disintegrated, ground to powder, melted, or vaporized, nor does it affect creatures (including constructs).

Look that the bolded sentence. A fireball will burn a wooden shield. Therefore you could not use the spell Make Whole to fix the burn damage.

You could however fix the damage from say the greatsword that sundered your shield.
Veton
07-12-04, 10:42 PM Yes it would. It just can't repair it if the damage has destroyed the item. Otherwise you could just hurl flasks of alchemical fire at shields/armor/weapons/etc. and they would be gone pretty quickly before you reach 14th level (When Limited Wish becomes available.)
Harmor
07-12-04, 10:54 PM Wait are you saying that the spell Make Whole can repair items that are PARTIALLY burned but not TOTALLY burned?

Obviously if an item was TOTALLY burned it would be destroyed. As I read the spell if an item was half-burnt it could not be repaired at all.

Which interpretation is correct?
Seeker95
07-12-04, 11:07 PM Originally posted by Harmor
Wait are you saying that the spell Make Whole can repair items that are PARTIALLY burned but not TOTALLY burned?

Obviously if an item was TOTALLY burned it would be destroyed. As I read the spell if an item was half-burnt it could not be repaired at all.

Which interpretation is correct? Burned is burned. Make whole can fix something that is broken, not "damaged". Break a Lincoln Log in two, and make whole can fix it. Melt your G.I. Joe, and make whole cannot.

Sunder a shield, and make whole can fix it.
Fireball a shield and make whole cannot fix it.

"Partially burned" is "burned".
Make whole cannot repair a burned item.
Edymnion
07-12-04, 11:28 PM Think of Make Whole a being magical super glue.
It can put the pieces back together, and fill in small cracks, but cannot rebuild the item from the ground up.

A half melted shield is still one whole piece. A pile of smoldering slag that used to be your full plate is still one piece, and Make Whole can't do a thing about it.

But now, Make Whole could fix your armor if it had been the target of a Shatter spell, because there are still all the appropriate pieces.

So yeah, really just think of the spell as magical superglue.
If you can glue the item back together, you can use Make Whole. If you can't glue it back together, then the spell is useless.
Harmor
07-13-04, 12:38 AM Thanks...both examples cleared up my confusion.

I still think you can use Fabricate to fix a burned item since all Fabricate does is allow you to instantly make a Craft check.

You still would have to have 1/5 the original item's matierals, so in my case I would have to have 9 lbs. (1/5 of 46 lbs) of darkwood each time I cast the spell AND make a DC 20 craft check (since its masterwork).

Am I right?
BlackSmith
07-13-04, 06:32 AM well, no.

SRDFabricate
... Creatures or magic items cannot be created or transmuted by the fabricate spell. ... ... ...
if a fireball melts your fullplate to pile of nice metal, call a blacksmith.
short of limited wish i can't remeber a spell that could restore its form AND its magical abilities.
the great and powerful Oz
07-13-04, 08:37 AM Fireball, at least in 3.0, could melt things but NOT burn them.
Weird. So you could repair your wooden shield but not your steel one using make whole? That's not right:confused:
Seeker95
07-13-04, 10:02 AM Originally posted by the great and powerful Oz
So you could repair your wooden shield but not your steel one using make whole? That's not right.You're right about it not being right, because what you asaid is wrong.

You can repair either of them if they were sundered; but not if either of them was damaged by a fireball.

Fireball does not splinter. It melts/burns/chars. Nothing damaged by a fireball can be repaired using make whole.
JiobiValen
07-14-04, 02:15 AM Well to answer your question I have an enhancement you may like...

Self Repairing:
This weapon or armor has the innate ability to reform itself when damaged, it heals 1 point of damage a day from any source. If destroyed, the item does not regenerate. Price: normal materials (up to steel-grade) +1000, special materials (Darkwood, Mithral, Adamantine) +2000

Greater Self Repairing:
Acts as self repairing with the following changes, heals 5 points a day and if destroyed it will become usable after a days time with 5 hit points. The only way to destroy the item is by completely destroying and spreading out the remains of the item. Price: normal +6000, special +12000
BlackSmith
07-14-04, 06:24 AM Originally posted by JiobiValen
Greater Self Repairing:
Acts as self repairing with the following changes, heals 5 points a day and if destroyed it will become usable after a days time with 5 hit points. The only way to destroy the item is by completely destroying and spreading out the remains of the item. Price: normal +6000, special +12000 totaly super-overpowered.

compare the price to repair a broken armor to this idea.
for +10 MPM fullplate it is 50k to repair it VS your 6k.
also this ability needs only paid once VS 50k each time the armor is broken.

if the price would be same as the items, i would allow it.
thus if pay 2x the armors normal price i would allow it to have this ability.
JiobiValen
07-14-04, 07:13 AM hmm... okay I agree on the second one being too much and I should of said that it didn't account for other enchantments, only masterwork.
Seeker95
07-14-04, 10:05 AM For greater self-repair just remove the ability to repair even if destroyed. It repairs faster. That's greater enough.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harmor 07-11-04, 06:14 AM	I know about the material that automatically heals itself, but I'm talking about a +# armor property that automatically heals itself, including magic damage? Remember, Make Whole does not repair magic damage. For reference: Make Whole Transmutation Level: Clr 2 Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One object of up to 10 cu. ft./ level This spell functions like Mending, except that make whole completely repairs an object made of any substance, even one with multiple breaks, to be as strong as new. The spell does not restore the magical abilities of a broken magic item made whole, and it cannot mend broken magic rods, staffs, or wands. The spell does not repair items that have been warped, burned, disintegrated, ground to powder, melted, or vaporized, nor does it affect creatures (including constructs). My GM ruled that only Limited, wish could repair an item that has been damaged from magic damage. What do you think of this: Repairing: This shield or armor seems very sturdy. Its surface is completely devoid of scrapes or bumps that would make the shield or armor look likes its used - it looks brand new. Once per day, it can be called on to completely repair itself back to new. Strong abjuration; CL 13th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Limited wish or Miracle; Price +3 bonus
Edward 07-11-04, 08:14 AM	As there are so few ways equipment can be damaged (including it being imposable to deliberately damage somebody’s armour other than a shield) there usually is not much point. If you want it I would say giving your armour “fast healing 1 or 2” would be worth a +1 bonus or maybe a flat 2-4000gp. Of cause once the armour is broken (all its hp gone) the magic will cease to function. Once any magic item reaches that state it is only reparable at cost of half its enchantment cost with the same requirements as enchanting from new. You would need to use a spell such as Make Whole before re enchanting (I think you should be able to repair a wand staff or rod but it will not repair its magical function. Once the items physical structure is completely gone (burned to nothing, disintegrated, vaporised, melted (not just bits melted off but completely gone to a puddle) you are talking wish to get it back. Edward
Seeker95 07-11-04, 10:09 AM	As Edward intimated, damage to armor is not really an integral game mechanic. It is either good, or broken. So what you are proposing is more flavor than mechanics. However, in my campaign, characters must pay a maintenance fee to keep their armor and weapons in good working order. They pay a monthly fee equal to 10% of the market value of the armor and weapons (ignoring enhancements, etc.) A magical suit of full plate costs the same to maintain as a normal suit of full plate. Maintenance costs are based on normal market prices. If the characters do not pay this fee (and do not have an appropriate craft skill to do it themselves) they suffer penalties. Penalties are cumulative, -1 per month of neglect. Paying the maintenance fees (including those in arrears, up to the replacement cost of the item) will restore it to normal functionality. I bring this up because in my campaign, your proposed enhancement would have a mechanics-based impact. I would recommend making it a flat price enhancement. Make whole is a 2nd level spell, leading to an assumed 2 x 3 x 2000gp price of 12,000gp. However, I think you could legitimately get the same results from mending -- a zero level spell. Total price: 500gp to make your armor or weapon "maintenance-free".
Edymnion 07-11-04, 03:57 PM	In my game poke poke Seeker, I don't really get too much into gear upkeep. I see basic maintanence as being part of the Armor Proficiency. You know how to adjust straps properly, you know hot to knock out a dent from metal armor, etc. I mean, the FIRST thing you should ever learn about your weapon or your armor is not how to use it, but how to do upkeep on it.
Veton 07-11-04, 04:07 PM	From the 3.5 SRD REPAIRING MAGIC ITEMS Some magic items take damage over the course of an adventure. It costs no more to repair a magic item with the Craft skill than it does to repair its nonmagical counterpart. The make whole spell also repairs a damaged—but not completely broken—magic item.
Harmor 07-11-04, 06:09 PM	Yes, but that can take weeks if not months. Not really helpful when the ogre barbarian is sundering though you shield...
Tsuul 07-11-04, 06:44 PM	From Harmor: My GM ruled that only Limited, wish could repair an item that has been damaged from magic damage. ??? Are you saying that somehow your gear is taking damage from magical sources, and because of this it can not be repaired without Limited Wish? That's just wrong. If the Item is destroyed (by mundain or magical sources) then you have a big problem and limited wish (as ruled by your DM) is the way to fix it. But damged gear (not destroyed) can indeed be repaired. Even if that damaged gear is magical. The magic doesn't leave till it's destroyed.
bitnine 07-11-04, 10:28 PM	You should probably reread that highlighted section. Make Whole does not restore magical properties to a broken magic item. Make Whole cannot mend broken spell items. However, it can be used to repair magical armor or weapons - as long as they aren't destroyed completely. Equally useful is a simple craft check. The spell's wording is a little unclear, however, so you might want to also check out the appropriate section for magic items in the DMG:DAMAGING MAGIC ITEMS A magic item doesn’t need to make a saving throw unless it is unattended, it is specifically targeted by the effect, or its wielder rolls a natural 1 on his save. Magic items should always get a saving throw against spells that might deal damage to them— even against attacks from which a nonmagical item would normally get no chance to save. Magic items use the same saving throw bonus for all saves, no matter what the type (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will). A magic item’s saving throw bonus equals 2 + one-half its caster level (round down). The only exceptions to this are intelligent magic items, which make Will saves based on their own Wisdom scores. Magic items, unless otherwise noted, take damage as nonmagical items of the same sort. A damaged magic item continues to function, but if it is destroyed, all its magical power is lost. REPAIRING MAGIC ITEMS Some magic items take damage over the course of an adventure. It costs no more to repair a magic item with the Craft skill than it does to repair its nonmagical counterpart. The make whole spell also repairs a damaged—but not completely broken—magic item.
BlackSmith 07-12-04, 02:30 AM	no, it takes not forver. just drop the item for a REAL blacksmith and stop medling with your characteres craft: armor +4 skill. works nice by the rules. but Seekers idea/way is not bad either. even if i DO agree with edy here, keeping EQ at shape does take some money also. geting new leather straps and geting weapon oil is not THAT cheap after all.
Edward 07-12-04, 05:01 AM	If you want some degree of realism you should make a distinction between armour maintenance and armour repair. Maintenance is fairly cheep. Even on full plate a bottle of polishing oil and a rag will last for some time and you will need to replace the odd strap and clean (even replace) the padding but this is all fairly cheep stuff and how to do it should be intrinsic in being proficient with the armour. Repair is for actual damage from a fight. Filing the hols from eth crossbow that penetrated the plate, to replacing or rebuilding the shoulder guard because the barbarians axe shattered it. This is the domain of an armour with the craft skill or a make whole spell. And could cost a significant amount of money but if you don’t have to fight in a month it wont need doing at all. In order to apply this you need to have a way of quantifying damage to armour however. Edward
ArchmageOmega 07-12-04, 07:22 AM	One of my houserules for my next game is that on a critcal, the armor the opponent is wearing also takes damage. However, I'm using vitality/wound points, so the criticals don't do x4 damage or anything. (It's set in Ravenloft, so I imagine it will give them a good scare every now and then.)
Thelon Fairblade 07-12-04, 09:34 AM	I thought there was a "+1 bonus" power that did self-repair already, but I can't seem to find it. Called something like "Living" Wait, here. IT is a special material, from BoED: Aurorum (pink and indigo steel): if item is sundered, it can be reformed by brining pieces back together (full-round action). +4000 gp or, from FRCS: Living Metal: iron mined from near powerful sources of life energy (druid circles, etc.), light grey-green color Weight: as steel; Hardness 10; HP 30/inch; favored in rings of regeneration; heals 1 HP per minute Weapons: (no effect) [+100gp/lb] Armor: after 1 tenday, +1 Max Dex, -1 ACP, -5% ASF [+700/+2000/+4500]
miclops77 07-12-04, 10:58 AM	I dont know if this helps but in the BOED there is a special material you can make your armor out of called Allorium, it takes a full round action to reform itself after being sundered.
tarkin 07-12-04, 11:00 AM	The fact that a spell can not normally be used to heal the magic item does NOT mean that a magic item of self-repairing can not be based on that spell. Magic item properties are based on spells, they are not always identical to them.
miclops77 07-12-04, 11:01 AM	Originally posted by Thelon Fairblade I thought there was a "+1 bonus" power that did self-repair already, but I can't seem to find it. Called something like "Living" Wait, here. IT is a special material, from BoED: Aurorum (pink and indigo steel): if item is sundered, it can be reformed by brining pieces back together (full-round action). +4000 gp or, from FRCS: Living Metal: iron mined from near powerful sources of life energy (druid circles, etc.), light grey-green color Weight: as steel; Hardness 10; HP 30/inch; favored in rings of regeneration; heals 1 HP per minute Weapons: (no effect) [+100gp/lb] Armor: after 1 tenday, +1 Max Dex, -1 ACP, -5% ASF [+700/+2000/+4500] OOPS:angel: missed this one. Is Aurorum the correct spelling?
BlackSmith 07-12-04, 11:30 AM	also, there is thing called living metal in MoF at page 179 that can "heal" itself.
Amaron Blackthorn 07-12-04, 11:48 AM	Originally posted by miclops77 I dont know if this helps but in the BOED there is a special material you can make your armor out of called Allorium, it takes a full round action to reform itself after being sundered. Is armor often sundered in your games Miclops? If not, what is the point of having this armor?
Thelon Fairblade 07-12-04, 01:33 PM	Fail your save against a 40-pt lightning bolt with a 1. Bye bye armor. Fail your save against an 84-pt black dragon breath with a 1. Bye bye armor. See the trend? The odds are slim (5% on each massive damage attack) without modifying the rules, but still possible. It should be a minor effect, though, unles using house rules for sundering armor and simliar effects.
Seeker95 07-12-04, 02:09 PM	Originally posted by Thelon Fairblade Fail your save against a 40-pt lightning bolt with a 1. Bye bye armor. Fail your save against an 84-pt black dragon breath with a 1. Bye bye armor. See the trend?Bye bye in any case. The armor is not just broken. It is destroyed. No amount of repair or maintenance is going to help. What is needed is resurrect armor and not make whole!
Amaron Blackthorn 07-12-04, 02:23 PM	Resurrection only works on something that was living. Metal, Steel, ores, etc, were never living. DUH!
Seeker95 07-12-04, 03:43 PM	Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn Resurrection only works on something that was living. Metal, Steel, ores, etc, were never living. DUH! On the off chance that you are being even remotely serious on this... Are you serious? Are you really serious? Did you just forget the smiley face? Or are you being serious?
Harmor 07-12-04, 06:41 PM	You can't use Make Whole when the damage was from magic. Shields and weapons get sundered frequently... Armor, unless you have somekind of house rule, cannot be sundered. In my case I have a +1 Darkwood Towershield that always gets sundered or damaged by spells. I currently have 16 points of damage from a Fireball, but cannot use Make Whole to fix it. My GM said that the only spell I can use to fix it is a Limited Wish, which basically means I have to find someone 13th level to cast it and cost 300 XP to fix.
BlackSmith 07-12-04, 06:49 PM	REEaaaly? Make Whole This spell functions like mending, except that make whole completely repairs an object made of any substance, even one with multiple breaks, to be as strong as new. The spell does not restore the magical abilities of a broken magic item made whole, and it cannot mend broken magic rods, staffs, or wands. The spell does not repair items that have been warped, burned, disintegrated, ground to powder, melted, or vaporized, nor does it affect creatures (including constructs).to me it does repair them. might be that there is some small print but my eyes register ok for repairing.
Harmor 07-12-04, 07:14 PM	Make Whole This spell functions like mending, except that make whole completely repairs an object made of any substance, even one with multiple breaks, to be as strong as new. The spell does not restore the magical abilities of a broken magic item made whole, and it cannot mend broken magic rods, staffs, or wands. The spell does not repair items that have been warped, burned, disintegrated, ground to powder, melted, or vaporized, nor does it affect creatures (including constructs). Look that the bolded sentence. A fireball will burn a wooden shield. Therefore you could not use the spell Make Whole to fix the burn damage. You could however fix the damage from say the greatsword that sundered your shield.
Veton 07-12-04, 10:42 PM	Yes it would. It just can't repair it if the damage has destroyed the item. Otherwise you could just hurl flasks of alchemical fire at shields/armor/weapons/etc. and they would be gone pretty quickly before you reach 14th level (When Limited Wish becomes available.)
Harmor 07-12-04, 10:54 PM	Wait are you saying that the spell Make Whole can repair items that are PARTIALLY burned but not TOTALLY burned? Obviously if an item was TOTALLY burned it would be destroyed. As I read the spell if an item was half-burnt it could not be repaired at all. Which interpretation is correct?
Seeker95 07-12-04, 11:07 PM	Originally posted by Harmor Wait are you saying that the spell Make Whole can repair items that are PARTIALLY burned but not TOTALLY burned? Obviously if an item was TOTALLY burned it would be destroyed. As I read the spell if an item was half-burnt it could not be repaired at all. Which interpretation is correct? Burned is burned. Make whole can fix something that is broken, not "damaged". Break a Lincoln Log in two, and make whole can fix it. Melt your G.I. Joe, and make whole cannot. Sunder a shield, and make whole can fix it. Fireball a shield and make whole cannot fix it. "Partially burned" is "burned". Make whole cannot repair a burned item.
Edymnion 07-12-04, 11:28 PM	Think of Make Whole a being magical super glue. It can put the pieces back together, and fill in small cracks, but cannot rebuild the item from the ground up. A half melted shield is still one whole piece. A pile of smoldering slag that used to be your full plate is still one piece, and Make Whole can't do a thing about it. But now, Make Whole could fix your armor if it had been the target of a Shatter spell, because there are still all the appropriate pieces. So yeah, really just think of the spell as magical superglue. If you can glue the item back together, you can use Make Whole. If you can't glue it back together, then the spell is useless.
Harmor 07-13-04, 12:38 AM	Thanks...both examples cleared up my confusion. I still think you can use Fabricate to fix a burned item since all Fabricate does is allow you to instantly make a Craft check. You still would have to have 1/5 the original item's matierals, so in my case I would have to have 9 lbs. (1/5 of 46 lbs) of darkwood each time I cast the spell AND make a DC 20 craft check (since its masterwork). Am I right?
BlackSmith 07-13-04, 06:32 AM	well, no. SRDFabricate ... Creatures or magic items cannot be created or transmuted by the fabricate spell. ... ... ... if a fireball melts your fullplate to pile of nice metal, call a blacksmith. short of limited wish i can't remeber a spell that could restore its form AND its magical abilities.
the great and powerful Oz 07-13-04, 08:37 AM	Fireball, at least in 3.0, could melt things but NOT burn them. Weird. So you could repair your wooden shield but not your steel one using make whole? That's not right:confused:
Seeker95 07-13-04, 10:02 AM	Originally posted by the great and powerful Oz So you could repair your wooden shield but not your steel one using make whole? That's not right.You're right about it not being right, because what you asaid is wrong. You can repair either of them if they were sundered; but not if either of them was damaged by a fireball. Fireball does not splinter. It melts/burns/chars. Nothing damaged by a fireball can be repaired using make whole.
JiobiValen 07-14-04, 02:15 AM	Well to answer your question I have an enhancement you may like... Self Repairing: This weapon or armor has the innate ability to reform itself when damaged, it heals 1 point of damage a day from any source. If destroyed, the item does not regenerate. Price: normal materials (up to steel-grade) +1000, special materials (Darkwood, Mithral, Adamantine) +2000 Greater Self Repairing: Acts as self repairing with the following changes, heals 5 points a day and if destroyed it will become usable after a days time with 5 hit points. The only way to destroy the item is by completely destroying and spreading out the remains of the item. Price: normal +6000, special +12000
BlackSmith 07-14-04, 06:24 AM	Originally posted by JiobiValen Greater Self Repairing: Acts as self repairing with the following changes, heals 5 points a day and if destroyed it will become usable after a days time with 5 hit points. The only way to destroy the item is by completely destroying and spreading out the remains of the item. Price: normal +6000, special +12000 totaly super-overpowered. compare the price to repair a broken armor to this idea. for +10 MPM fullplate it is 50k to repair it VS your 6k. also this ability needs only paid once VS 50k each time the armor is broken. if the price would be same as the items, i would allow it. thus if pay 2x the armors normal price i would allow it to have this ability.
JiobiValen 07-14-04, 07:13 AM	hmm... okay I agree on the second one being too much and I should of said that it didn't account for other enchantments, only masterwork.
Seeker95 07-14-04, 10:05 AM	For greater self-repair just remove the ability to repair even if destroyed. It repairs faster. That's greater enough.