Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harmor 08-08-04, 06:47 PM	Bracers of Deflection: These items appear to be wrist or arm guards. They surrond the wearer with a shimmering, magical field that averts attacks, granting him a deflection bonus of +1 to +5. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective. Moderate abjuration; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item, shield of faith (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/theraven_stephenh/spells/Shield_of_Faith.html), creator’s caster level must be at least three times that of the bonus placed in the bracers; Price 2,000 gp (+1), 8,000 gp (+2), 18,000 gp (+3), 32,000 gp (+4), 50,000 gp (+5); Cost to create: 1,000gp + 40 XP (+1), 4,000gp + 160 XP (+2), 9,000gp + 360 XP (+3), 16,000gp + 640 XP (+4), 25,000gp + 1,000 XP (+5); Weight 1 lb. -- Cost breakdown: Defection Bonus Squared x 2,000 for Deflection bonus = market price Noticed that there should had been a caster level requirement of three times instead of two times the bonus placed in the bracers Lowered the caster level to 5th since that's the same as a Ring of Protection
Seeker95 08-08-04, 07:08 PM	That's how it works. Designed right and priced right. The only change I would make is to use shield[/]i as the casting spell instead of [i]shield of faith. Keeps it closer in line with bracers of armor and also means it could be made by a wizard instead of requiring a cleric. Wizards would be more interested in both owning and making these items.
Harmor 08-08-04, 07:12 PM	The spell shield gives a Shield Bonus not a Deflection bonus. The spell mage armor gives an Armor Bonus and not a Defelction bonus. The spell shield of faith gives a Deflection Bonus. There are no wizard 1st level spells that give a Deflection Bonus in the 3.5 SRD. Remember, you can work with a cleric to make items in 3.5. Just have them stop by your laboratory once a day, say after lunch, and cast a spell into the bracers you're working on.
Seeker95 08-08-04, 07:27 PM	Anyway... nice item that has a place in the game, priced well. I'll change the flavor text in my campaign so that it is not a cleric-made item, and you enjoy it in yours.
Harmor 08-08-04, 07:36 PM	OK. Whatever floats your boat. Using the spell shield should not be used in an item that bestows a deflection bonus just so a wizard could use it. If there was a 1st level wizard spell that bestowed a deflection bonus then you could use that spell instead.
Seeker95 08-08-04, 08:59 PM	Originally posted by Harmor Using the spell shield should not be used in an item that bestows a deflection bonus just so a wizard could use it. It doesn't change who can use it. It affects who can make it. On a related note, by allowing it to have a deflection bous instead of a shield bonus, you are allowing every class to gain additional AC. Fighters and clerics can throw on the bracers and have it stack with their armor and their shield. So I would make two changes. One: change the spell to shield; and Two: change the bonus to shield instead of deflection.
ClementWillowbreaker 08-08-04, 09:03 PM	On a related note, by allowing it to have a deflection bous instead of a shield bonus, you are allowing every class to gain additional AC. Fighters and clerics can throw on the bracers and have it stack with their armor and their shield. [/B][/QUOTE] The exact same thing can be said about Rings of Protection. You're point? Its just another slot (which is for protective items), so it works fine.
Seeker95 08-08-04, 09:14 PM	Originally posted by ClementWillowbreaker The exact same thing can be said about Rings of Protection. You're point? Its just another slot (which is for protective items), so it works fine. With all the things that rings can provide, using up a ring slot for AC is a decent trade off. For bracers, there aren't a whole lotta things that a character gives up the opportunity to have by wearing bracers of shielding. In terms of opportunity cost, rings are more expensive than bracers.
Harmor 08-08-04, 10:41 PM	Actually the costs of these bracers are exactly the same as a Ring of Protection. Oh and here's the description for a Ring of Protection from the SRD:Ring of Protection: This ring offers continual magical protection in the form of a deflection bonus of +1 to +5 to AC. Faint abjuration; CL 5th; Forge Ring, shield of faith, caster must be of a level at least three times greater than the bonus of the ring; Price 2,000 gp (ring +1); 8,000 gp (ring +2); 18,000 gp (ring +3); 32,000 gp (ring +4); 50,000 gp (ring +5). 1. Notice that Shield of Faith is used instead of Shield. 2. I need to make a change to my original item. I just noticed that the Ring of Protection has a caster requirement of three times greater than the bonus instead of two times the bonus!!! 3. Changed the caster level requirement from 7th to 5th to match a Ring of Protection. Would you allow an arcane caster to make a Ring of Protection using the spell Shield Seeker95?
Ehelonna 08-08-04, 11:43 PM	Originally posted by Harmor Would you allow an arcane caster to make a Ring of Protection using the spell Shield? [/B] I don't see any reason not to... after all, the rod of flailing provides a deflection bonus to AC and a resistance bonus on saving throws... but the spell it uses is bless which grants a morale bonus to attack rolls!!! Allowing shield to grant a deflection bonus is tame in comparison. Other odd spell requirement include jump... for a ring of evasion. cat's grace... for gloves of swimming and climbing. At least 3.5 added bull's strength as an additional requirement, at least that affects the characteristic that is used by those skills. Of course this item will be unlikely to be used by a Wizard... that slot is usually used for the cheaper bracers of armor... and those even stack with their ring of protection. What this sounds like is a cleric that wants to make a ring of protection but not spend the feat to forge rings, or thy want to make the item before 12th level (when you can take forge ring), or use a non-ring slot to gain the deflection bonus. I can see disallowing it on those grounds. The forge ring feat is already underpowered, allowing create wonderous item to make the equivalent of rings of protection reduces its value even more.
Someone 08-09-04, 12:07 AM	Originally posted by Seeker95 With all the things that rings can provide, using up a ring slot for AC is a decent trade off. For bracers, there aren't a whole lotta things that a character gives up the opportunity to have by wearing bracers of shielding. In terms of opportunity cost, rings are more expensive than bracers. I was thinking bracers of Con, or maybe archery.
Harmor 08-09-04, 02:08 AM	Originally posted by Ehelonna What this sounds like is a cleric that wants to make a ring of protection but not spend the feat to forge rings, or thy want to make the item before 12th level (when you can take forge ring), or use a non-ring slot to gain the deflection bonus. I can see disallowing it on those grounds. The forge ring feat is already underpowered, allowing create wonderous item to make the equivalent of rings of protection reduces its value even more. [/B] Exactly. You hit the nail on the head. I already have two good rings and didn't want to replace them. I'm already wearing full-plate and wanted to increase my touch AC.
Heron_Marked_Blade 08-09-04, 07:03 AM	Originally posted by Harmor Exactly. You hit the nail on the head. I already have two good rings and didn't want to replace them. I'm already wearing full-plate and wanted to increase my touch AC. Now's when you need to start making/purchasing unslotted rings. More expensive? Sure. But that's the trade-off for gaining the benefit of more rings, which are more powerful items than wondrous items are. I wouldn't allow bracers of deflection IMC, for precisely the reasons stated by Seeker and Ehelonna. The DMG has mechanics in place for wearing more than two rings -- its called making an item unslotted. It's very important to keep the Craft Wondrous Item feat from infringing on other feats (Craft Staff, Forge Ring) that require a higher caster level and which should be consequently more powerful than a 3rd-level feat.
Harmor 08-09-04, 07:24 AM	Originally posted by Heron_Marked_Blade [It's very important to keep the Craft Wondrous Item feat from infringing on other feats (Craft Staff, Forge Ring) that require a higher caster level and which should be consequently more powerful than a 3rd-level feat. [/B] What type of items, exactly, are allowed to be put into rings? What type of items, exactly, are allowed to created using the wondrous item feat? Doesn't the Ring of Jumping give a bonus to jumps just like a set of Boots of Striding and Springing? Or perhaps Elixir of Swimming and Gloves of Swimming and Climbing allow the wearer to swim better just like a Ring of Swimming? How about an Clear Ioun Ston and a Ring of Sustanance, they both allow you to not to eat? Or how about Boots of Water walking and a Ring of Water walking? My point is the reason you take Forge Ring is so you could create items that are in rings that appear to have similar if not identical functions to many Wondrous Items. Just because there already exists an item that is either a Wondrous Item, or in this case a ring, doesn't mean you can't make item using either feat. There is no restriction. The only restriction is what precedence you somehow inferred from the items listed in the DMG. But, to each his own. It really doesn't matter what either of us think. As long as our DM's allow it in their campaigns it'll be legal.