Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harmor 09-09-04, 03:37 AM	Can I use Mage Hand to drop an Acid Flask on someone? Basically am I allowed to make an attack roll with Mage Hand?
tarkin 09-09-04, 09:44 AM	Yes. But you still have to make a ranged touch attack on them. I would House Rule that you do not get your Dex bonus (or any other stat bonus) because of the awkwardness of jury-riggering the Mage Hand for this kind of attack.
Perpetual Wizard 09-09-04, 11:18 AM	Yes, I agree. We've played as such for quite a while and it seems balanced this way. You can also drop a flask of oil on a troll like this from a safe distance. Makes him real mad though.
Seeker95 09-09-04, 01:58 PM	Yes you can (in my campaign). Ranged touch. Non-proficiency penalty applies. :D
Emir 09-09-04, 02:48 PM	I don't see why this shouldn't be applied without any penalties. I'd allow it and you can retain your dex and no non-proficient penalties. The reason might be that I don't see any use of droping the Acid Flask on anyone, not even at low levels :S Aspecially not even wasting my 0 level spell.
Seeker95 09-09-04, 03:40 PM	I don't see why this shouldn't be applied without any penalties.Because it takes skill to turn a normally horizontal perspective into vertical aim. I don't see any use of dropping the Acid Flask on anyone.Acid causes 1d6 points of damage. The range increment on a flask of acid is 10'. A mage hand is good out to 25' + 5' per two caster levels. At 1st level, even with non-proficiency penalties, it lets you deliver acid damage two range increments further than you could ever hope to effectively throw it.
Tony Vargas 09-09-04, 03:51 PM	I guess I'm going to have to buck the trend... Mage Hand says it can 'propel' an item up to 15' as a move action - which means a rate of about 30' a round, or half as fast as a person can run. That's not that fast, compared to throwing an object (50' more-or-less instantly). So, it's not really something you could make an attack with. You /could/ have a Mage Hand propel an object to a point above someone, then end the spell or simply drop the object. Dropping something isn't an attack, though, so, by default, the object would simply land in the creature's square (acid would do splash damage). It might be reasonable for the DM to call for a REF save to avoid the dropped item under difficult circumstances. In general, though, I'd say "just throw the flask."
Harmor 09-09-04, 06:42 PM	The situtation I used it in when an enemy ducked behind a rock (total cover) so I cast Mage Hand and dropped it on him, because I knew which square he was in. I had 50% miss chance, but still hit :) I asked here to see what you guys thought.
Sphyre 09-09-04, 07:41 PM	Yes you can (in my campaign). Ranged touch. Non-proficiency penalty applies. :D Actually it says in the PhB that everyone is automatically proficient with all splash weapons. Pg 158 second paragraph under Throw Splash Weapon.
primemover003 09-09-04, 07:45 PM	yeah but chuck a flask of acid with a robotic arm... see how different it is from you actually throwing something.
Seeker95 09-09-04, 09:06 PM	everyone is automatically proficient with all splash weapons.But not everyone is proficient with a mage hand. :P In this case, the flask is the ammunition. The hand is the weapon.
Razorblade Smile 09-09-04, 09:10 PM	Because it takes skill to turn a normally horizontal perspective into vertical aim. That would be the point of the ranged touch attack. Unless you start forcing a non-proficiency penalty on any and all uses of ranged touch attacks (throwing acid, shooting rays, throwing a net, etc.; all of which are significantly different from one another in the skill required to do it), then there's no basis for penalizing such a maneuver beyond the required ranged touch attack.
Seeker95 09-09-04, 09:37 PM	then there's no basis for penalizing such a maneuver beyond the required ranged touch attack.Except for the basis already presented. The caster is not throwing the falsk. He's not firing a ray. He's not making a touch attack. He is attempting to direct a mage hand a specific distance and then drop an object. Ever try using a crane? Moving a crane with two levers, causing it to not only position itself over your desired target but also to pick up the target is tough. It takes skill. One might say proficiency even. :D
Loren Pechtel 09-10-04, 12:54 AM	Yes you can (in my campaign). Ranged touch. Non-proficiency penalty applies. :D I think a mage would be proficient with Mage Hand. No stat bonuses, though.
Sphyre 09-10-04, 01:38 AM	But not everyone is proficient with a mage hand. :P In this case, the flask is the ammunition. The hand is the weapon. yep, i would agree - but the caster of mage hand, knowing magehand, would be proficient with the spell he studied to learn.
Seeker95 09-10-04, 10:13 AM	Well, in reading through the various position defenses, I've changed my mind a bit on how I would permit it (but would still permit)... 1. Ranged touch: Yes. You just have to hit them. 2. Non-proficiency penalty: No. The mage would be "proficient" with mage hand. 3. Stat bonuses: Yes. If you have dexterity, you have dexterity. 4. Range increments: No. You aren't throwing the flask. You're dropping it. 5. Spread pattern: No. Again, you're dropping it. Less splash. I'm not saying I think everyone should do it that way, but rather, that is the way I would handle it in my campaign.
Phrennzy 09-10-04, 10:15 AM	I'd allow it with all the bonuses for Dex and BAB and without non-proficiency penalties. I picture Mage Hand to be almost as dextrous and controllable as the caster's own hand.