3.5 Casting a ray spell while touching your opponent? Treat like a touch? [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.5 Casting a ray spell while touching your opponent? Treat like a touch? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Harmor
08-22-04, 03:16 AM If I'm in melee with an opponent, can I make a melee touch attack and fire off a ray spell while touching him?

Basically its firing the ray spell at point blank range.

The reason I want to do this is because my character is better at melee touch attacks than ranged touch attacks.

[EDIT] Also he's a rogue and I would like to sneak attack with spells like Acid Spash while flanking.
MarkB
08-22-04, 05:52 AM I don't think you could use a melee touch attack in this situation. Basically, with a melee touch spell, you're able to 'hold the charge' until you have an opportunity to touch him (which doesn't necessarily occur instantaneously with completing the spell, even if you make your touch attack successfully the same round). With a ranged touch spell, the spell fires as soon as you complete casting, so you'd have to be reaching out to touch your opponent whilst in the act of casting. At the very least, that should rule out casting defensively.

As for the sneak attack, I think you're out of luck. It's the equivalent of getting a flanking sneak attack by firing a crossbow from an adjacent square, and that's definitely not an option. You'll have to make do with melee touch spells.
Rundor The Mighty
08-22-04, 06:48 AM Originally posted by MarkB
As for the sneak attack, I think you're out of luck. It's the equivalent of getting a flanking sneak attack by firing a crossbow from an adjacent square, and that's definitely not an option. You'll have to make do with melee touch spells.

With blink or better yet improved blink, you can use ranged touch attack spells to constantly deliver sneak attack.

(but be careful my dm killed my char for repeatedly using improved blink and empowered scorching ray + sneak attack)
Seeker95
08-22-04, 01:13 PM It is still a ranged touch (although at point blank range). But be careful. Not only are you in touch range, but you are also in provoke-an-AoO range!
Tonus
08-22-04, 04:18 PM No.

Consider that a ranged touch attack (such as a ray) operates much as if you had a ranged weapon equipped. Flanking does not apply. You *can* sneak attack if you are within 30' and your opponent is denied his dex bonus.

You need to use an actual melee touch attack spell for what you are describing. Chill Touch is very nice for that, since you retain multiple charges and can sneak attack with each one. Shocking Grasp and Vampiric Touch are other contenders.

You might also consider researching a new spell that mimics a ranged spell you favor except as a touch attack instead, e.g. Acid Touch instead of Acid Splash. Heck, you could even research a spell that could be delivered as *either* a touch or ranged touch as you desire, but the flexibility would no doubt bump up the spell level considerably.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harmor 08-22-04, 03:16 AM	If I'm in melee with an opponent, can I make a melee touch attack and fire off a ray spell while touching him? Basically its firing the ray spell at point blank range. The reason I want to do this is because my character is better at melee touch attacks than ranged touch attacks. [EDIT] Also he's a rogue and I would like to sneak attack with spells like Acid Spash while flanking.
MarkB 08-22-04, 05:52 AM	I don't think you could use a melee touch attack in this situation. Basically, with a melee touch spell, you're able to 'hold the charge' until you have an opportunity to touch him (which doesn't necessarily occur instantaneously with completing the spell, even if you make your touch attack successfully the same round). With a ranged touch spell, the spell fires as soon as you complete casting, so you'd have to be reaching out to touch your opponent whilst in the act of casting. At the very least, that should rule out casting defensively. As for the sneak attack, I think you're out of luck. It's the equivalent of getting a flanking sneak attack by firing a crossbow from an adjacent square, and that's definitely not an option. You'll have to make do with melee touch spells.
Rundor The Mighty 08-22-04, 06:48 AM	Originally posted by MarkB As for the sneak attack, I think you're out of luck. It's the equivalent of getting a flanking sneak attack by firing a crossbow from an adjacent square, and that's definitely not an option. You'll have to make do with melee touch spells. With blink or better yet improved blink, you can use ranged touch attack spells to constantly deliver sneak attack. (but be careful my dm killed my char for repeatedly using improved blink and empowered scorching ray + sneak attack)
Seeker95 08-22-04, 01:13 PM	It is still a ranged touch (although at point blank range). But be careful. Not only are you in touch range, but you are also in provoke-an-AoO range!
Tonus 08-22-04, 04:18 PM	No. Consider that a ranged touch attack (such as a ray) operates much as if you had a ranged weapon equipped. Flanking does not apply. You can sneak attack if you are within 30' and your opponent is denied his dex bonus. You need to use an actual melee touch attack spell for what you are describing. Chill Touch is very nice for that, since you retain multiple charges and can sneak attack with each one. Shocking Grasp and Vampiric Touch are other contenders. You might also consider researching a new spell that mimics a ranged spell you favor except as a touch attack instead, e.g. Acid Touch instead of Acid Splash. Heck, you could even research a spell that could be delivered as either a touch or ranged touch as you desire, but the flexibility would no doubt bump up the spell level considerably.