Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harmor 02-18-04, 07:28 AM	One of my favorite spells is Ray of Enfeeblement. But what I really wanted was the ability to debuff different stats based on the situation. So I came up with these. Ray of Clumsiness (Lvl 1): 1d6 +1 per 2 levels (max 1d6+5) to Dex Ray of Decrepitude (Lvl 2): 1d6 +1 per 2 levels (max 1d6+5) to Con Ray of Stupidity (Lvl 1): 1d6 +1 per 2 levels (max 1d6+5) to Int Ray of Lunacy (Lvl 1): 1d6 +1 per 2 levels (max 1d6+5) to Wis Ray of Odiousness (Lvl 1): 1d6 +1 per 2 levels (max 1d6+5) to Cha Ray of Inability (Lvl 4): : 1d6 +1 per 2 levels (max 1d6+5) to ALL stats Ray of Clumsiness Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a penalty to Dexterity equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). The subject’s Dexterity score cannot drop below 1. Ray of Decrepitude Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a penalty to Constitution equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). The subject’s Constitution score cannot drop below 1. Ray of Stupidity Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a penalty to Intelligence equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). The subject’s Intelligence score cannot drop below 1. Ray of Lunacy Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a penalty to Wisdom equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). The subject’s Wisdom score cannot drop below 1. Ray of Odiousness Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a penalty to Charisma equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). The subject’s Charisma score cannot drop below 1. Ray of Inability Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 4 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5) to all stats. No stat can drop below 1. Ray of Clumsiness Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a penalty to Dexterity equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). The subject’s Dexterity score cannot drop below 1. Notice that Ray of Decrepitude was level 2 instead of level 1. I think because it affectly does an average of 2 points of damage per level of the target that it should had been at least 2nd level. Ray of Inability at level 4 should be fine I think. I was thinking of making the INT, WIS and CHA versions be level 2, but then I thought that melee touch attacks don't discharge until touched (i.e. you can cast then move upto your target and if you miss you can try again vs. a ray which is a 1-shot hit or miss). I would think someone would had already made these before. Let me know what ya think.
Sproik 02-18-04, 08:19 AM	Personally, I think Ray of Inability would be rather more useful than any similar spell at level 4 (thinking of things like enervation, bestow curse, crushing despair). How about level 7? The Constitution ray is very powerful as well. I think it is potentially more useful than enervation, which is 4th level.
Seeker95 02-18-04, 10:32 AM	I love the concept, building on the ray of enfeeblement! Agreeing with Sproik, I would adjust level for Ray of Inability. 7th sounds about right. The Con spell is devastating, but I cannot justify making it higher than a 2nd level spell. Perhaps it could be the only one with a saving throw?
(Psi)SeveredHead 02-18-04, 10:34 AM	The two spells Sproik mentioned, at the very least, should have saves. Really, all of those spells should have saves, including the original.
Sproik 02-18-04, 10:34 AM	There is also the fact that sapping Strength is very much a necromantic thing to do. But sapping Intelligence? I'm not so keen. I won't be using any of these spells.
Thelon Fairblade 02-18-04, 12:28 PM	I also suggest that Ray of Decrepitude be at least 3rd, if not higher. You aren't just doing CON damage, you are reducing HP and reducing Fort saves... Ray of Decrep + Disintegrate or Baleful Polymorph or Finger of Death, etc etc etc. Ray of Inability needs to be at least 5th (if it leaves out CON), or 7th if it includes CON. Reasoning: Use Enervation as a benchmark. Enervation inflicts d4 negative levels = -2.5 to all actions, avg. Ray of inability causes 6.5 damage to all stats = -3 to all actions (at 7th, -4 to all at 10th). *Plus* the actual lowering of the stats, which causes spell level loss, feat loss, save losses, prestige class loss (lose qualifications, like feats, lose the special powers). *Plus* you are automatically striking the target's "worst" stat, which will render them helpless on a good roll.
Vanigo 02-18-04, 05:46 PM	First, add a clause stating that ray of inability doesn't stack with any of the other rays. Secondly, the mental rays should probably be enchantment, not necromancy. Third, ray of decrepitude does seem too powerful for second level. It's just too good against things with lots of HD. -4 HP/level is an awful lot when you hit a dragon with it. Maybe put a HD cap on it, and make a higher level, but uncapped version? The same goes for ray of inability, of course. Maybe just exclude con from that one. Lastly, you might want to limit the mental rays a bit. Denying access to all spells above 3rd level is an awfully nasty thing to do to a 13th level mage, and a first level spell has no business doing it. Just say that it can't do that, and that lost spell slots return still full at the end of the spell's duration, and you're fine.
Harmor 02-18-04, 06:55 PM	The INT, WIS and CHA versions will add a Will saving throw to resist. I was looking at the 2nd level 'Touch of Idiocy' and thinking that I really didn't want to do damage to all three, just 1. So making it a Ray and only doing a specific damage seemed reasonable. Here are the changes based on your feedback: Ray of Clumsiness: No change Ray of Decrepitude: Changed to level 4, Fort Save to negate, and 1d6 with no level adjustment Ray of Stupidity: Changed to level 2, changed to Enchantment, and added Will Save to negate Ray of Lunacy: Changed to level 2, changed to Enchantment, and added Will Save negate Ray of Odiousness: Changed to level 2, changed to Enchantment, and added Will Save negate Ray of Inability: Changed to level 6, added Will or Fort saves to negate, and added that this does not stack with itself Ray of Clumsiness Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a penalty to Dexterity equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). The subject’s Dexterity score cannot drop below 1. Ray of Decrepitude Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 4 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: Fort (negates) Spell Resistance: Yes A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a 1d6 penalty to Constitution. The subject’s Constitution score cannot drop below 1. Ray of Stupidity Enchantment Level: Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: Will (negates) Spell Resistance: Yes A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a penalty to Intelligence equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). The subject’s Intelligence score cannot drop below 1. Ray of Lunacy Enchantment Level: Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: Will (negates) Spell Resistance: Yes A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a penalty to Wisdom equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). The subject’s Wisdom score cannot drop below 1. Ray of Odiousness Enchantment Level: Sor/Wiz 1 Level: Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: Will (negates) Spell Resistance: Yes A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a penalty to Charisma equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). The subject’s Charisma score cannot drop below 1. Ray of Inability Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 7 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: Will or Fort (negates) Spell Resistance: Yes A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5) to all stats. No stat can drop below 1. The target can make a Will or Fortitude saving though, which ever is higher, do negate the spell's affect. Ray of Inability does not stack with itself. Thanks for your feedback. Its very much appreciated.
Zitchas 02-18-04, 10:30 PM	So long as the spell slots (with contents. *grin*) return after the end of the duration, then they're fair, I suppose. Although personally, I think ALL stat draining spells should be a level or so higher. Especially ones that don't have the "can't drain below 1" limit. I've played a couple campaigns with a dedicated stat killer... And it's not a pretty sight, not at all. *shudder*.
Harmor 02-18-04, 11:04 PM	Well Hold person is a level 2 touch spell that paralyzes the person...but now they get to make a save each round. Think about it...2 failed will saves and someone can coup'de grace ya...
Vanigo 02-19-04, 12:35 AM	Originally posted by Harmor Well Hold person is a level 2 touch spell that paralyzes the person...but now they get to make a save each round. Think about it...2 failed will saves and someone can coup'de grace ya... One if the caster has an ally who goes after him, but before you. About the spells: I think you've gone a bit too far. Actually, make that way too far. Ray of decrepitude: Change it to level four or allow a fort save to negate; don't do both. Change the damage to 1d3+level max 1d3+5. Stupidity, lunacy, odiousness: A touch on the weak side now. Make it will half. (Actually, it should be will partial; half is strictly for damage. Will half gets the idea across, though.) Inability: Drop the save, or maybe make it "see below;" with a fort save negating con loss. Also, you did the stacking clause wrong. It already didn't stack with itself; that's the default. The clause you need is as follows: The ability score penalties from ray of inability overlap (do not stack with) the effects of ray of clumsiness, ray of decrepitude, ray of enfeeblement, ray of lunacy, ray of odiousness, and ray of stupidity.
Harmor 02-19-04, 01:47 AM	Hmm...good points. Well at least do you like the names? I spent some time on http://www.webster.com :D
DDRGasm 02-19-04, 07:56 AM	The names are great, actually. The whole concept of stat-draining rays is cool, but I'm not sure if I really like the whole idea. Note that Strength, Intelligence, and Charisma are the stats that are more or less purely offensive. So, lowering strength won't help you kill a monster any faster, it'll just slow down its offense. Lowering Int or Charisma won't kill anything either, but it will slow down its spellcasting ability (and decision making). On the other hand, Dex, Con, and Wis are defensive stats (for the most part, Wisdom is a slight exception - it only adds to Will Saves generally). Lowering a defensive stat usually helps kill the monsters faster. Especially Constitution... ouchies. Now, let' look at precedents: Spells already in the Core Rules. Ray of Enfeeblement Bestow Curse Feeblemind are the 3 that jump to mind. Ray of Enfeeblement targets strength, a purely offensive stat. Feeblemind targets Int and Cha, also offensive stats. Bestow Curse can target any stat, but it is a fixed penalty. I would probably aim to balance these new ray spells around Bestow Curse. Perhaps, since Bestow Curse gives a -6 penalty, aim for these spells do give, on average, a -6 penalty as well. Also, since Bestow Curse grants a will save, and these require touch attacks (something usually much easier on the caster), they should be a level higher or so. I think a level 3 spell, ranged touch attack, 1d6 stat damage +1 / 3 levels, (max +3) would be very well balanced. It will do somewhere between 4 and 9 "damage" (average of 6.5), and uses a ranged touch attack instead of a will save. Actually, I could see dropping the level down to 2 (but as a powerful level 2 spell), since Bestow Curse can do a lot of other things in addition to stat penalties. Or, perhaps have it do +1/2 levels, max +4, and keep it a 3rd level spell. That's a good template that should work with any stat, since there's already a book in the core rulebooks to compare it to. I think everyone on the boards can agree that Ray of Enfeeblement is a little too powerful a benchmark to compare new spells to. Comparing Ray of Enfeeblement to Bestow Curse makes that pretty evident. ;) To be honest, if someone showed me Ray of Enfeeblement as a spell they want their character to research, I would have turned it down. But, its in the core rules. Gotta trust the designers sometime.
Seeker95 02-19-04, 09:31 AM	Suggestion, based on DDR's comments: For Dex-, Con-, and Wis-drainers: 1. allow a save 2. bump up one spell level 3. Have fixed, non-stacking penalty.
TheAmethystDragon 02-19-04, 05:55 PM	I'm not sure how it is in 3.5, but in 3rd Edition, ray of enfeeblement gives the victim an enhancement penalty...it's named, so it doesn't stack with itself :) You could just do that with all of these spells to keep things nice and tidy. Just my two coppers.
Vanigo 02-19-04, 06:17 PM	Originally posted by TheAmethystDragon I'm not sure how it is in 3.5, but in 3rd Edition, ray of enfeeblement gives the victim an enhancement penalty...it's named, so it doesn't stack with itself :) You could just do that with all of these spells to keep things nice and tidy. Just my two coppers. In 3.5 there is no such thing as an enhancement penalty, as explained recently in the "Rules of the game: Does it stack?" thing on the website.