Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harmor 01-21-04, 05:26 PM	How can I convince my DM that Ray of Emfeeblement does not stack: Rules Governing Bonuses The basic rule to remember when combining two or more bonuses is this: two or more bonuses of different type stack, and two or more bonuses of the same type overlap. In general, a bonus's name indicates its type. A bonus with no name has no type and it stacks with any other bonus, but not with itself. I think this is clear...p24 of the DM talks about it too but doesn't specifically say. The reason I bring this up was our party of level 8's encountered a room full of these level 1 Adepts...who all Ray of Emfeebled me in the same round and put me at -7 strength even AFTER I raged with my Barbarian. Any ideas?
d_nychus 01-21-04, 05:32 PM	Sounds like he's specifically gunning for you. Honestly, I would start using his own medicine against him. Get the party mage to RoE everything in sight, all the while touting about how broken his houserule is for it. Honestly, if you want good proof, you've given it. Can't help him if he can't read and doesn't understand the system.
Frank the Vandal 01-21-04, 05:33 PM	Maybe this quote will help? From the 3.5 SRD: Section "COMBINING MAGICAL EFFECTS", under Magic Overview: Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies.
Hypersmurf 01-21-04, 05:40 PM	I've always been partial to this one: Stacking Effects: Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves. -Hyp.
d_nychus 01-21-04, 05:42 PM	Ghaa, I'm an idiot. Harmor, open up a 3.5 PHB to page 172, and look at the section that Frank the Vandal just pointed out. It includes a specific example of multiple penalties not stacking, which is not included in the SRD. The spell used in that example is Ray of Enfeeblement. If your DM STILL does not believe it after that, find a new one. Hey, my group needs a 6th member. :angel:
da chicken 01-21-04, 07:48 PM	As a special note, Harmor, the passage you quote does not apply because penalties are not bonuses.
Harmor 01-22-04, 09:08 AM	DM's responce: You're correct that the linked Wizards document indicates that my ruling was right. However! The rules on PHB 171 (not 172) indicate that I was mistaken: "spells that provide bonuses or penalties to [various stuff] do not stack with themselves." However, if you researched a few extra spells (Ray of Enfeeeblement, Ray of Enfeeeeblement, and Ray of Enfeeeeeblement) that were identical to Ray of Enfeeblement in all but name, the penalties to Strength would (being unnamed) stack. Kind of a bizarre rule. In effect, all bonuses or penalties granted by spells are "named" -- if you take -5 to Strength from a Ray of Enfeeblement, you have a "-5 Ray-of-Enfeeblement penalty" to Strength. Presumably the same rule applies to spell-like abilities. I don't think he would change his ruling unless there was an official errata. I guess this is Rule 0...