3.5 Main FAQ question [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.5 Main FAQ question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Heron_Marked_Blade
04-24-04, 09:49 PM In the most recent update to the 3.5 Main FAQ, the following question was asked and answered:
Question:
In a game I run, one of my players tried to use Mordenkainen's disjunction on a golem. The spell failed to get through the antimagic field provided by the golem's creator, so I didn't have to make a ruling this time. My question is, would it have worked? Is a golem more of a creature, having been listed in the Monster Manual, or a magic item, as it's created just like one? On that subject, a golem is immune to magical effects, whould this include Mordenkainen's disjunction? That is, is a golem a magical effect for purposes of resolving a Mordenkainen's disjunction spell?

Answer:
You can't disjoin a golem because a golem is a creature, not a magic item or magical effect.

Anything that has both a Charisma score and a Wisdom score is a creature, not an object.* Mordenkainen's disjunction would destroy any magical effect a golem was using, such as a slow effect from a stone golem.

*underline mine
That's an interesting statement. Does this mean that intelligent magic items with a Charisma and Wisdom score do not count as magic items for the purpose of resolving a Mordenkainen's disjunction spell? What do you guys think?
Wizard
04-24-04, 09:57 PM I think they pulled this ruling out of their a**es. Nothing besides this indicates that intelligent items are any different in vulnerability to magic (except that their Wis mod is applied to Will saves) than unintelligent ones.

Personally, though, I'd have allowed the MD to work, even on the golem. Craft Construct is an item creation feat, after all.
UZI
04-24-04, 10:51 PM The information about the wisdom and charisma scores is in the back of one of the core books (I actually just read it last night or this morning, before encountering it in the updated FAQ). Also, if something has no wisdom, it must have no charisma, and vice versa. Such things are objects.

Very interesting question about intelligent items. I might think you could end up with an intelligent, yet impotent, magic item. The question is: does an intelligent items count as a creature? And if so, what does that mean for the disjunction? For that matter, would an intelligent sword still have an intelligence in an anti-magic field?
cwslyclgh
04-24-04, 11:56 PM I would personaly rule that unless they possess the construct type theya re not actually creatures regardless of if they have a wisdom/charisma score...

if you read the PHB carefully you will see that it things lacking wisdom/charisma are objects not creatures... it does not say that things with widom/charisma scores are nesscecarily creatures...

I can see it as being able to be read like this: if it doesn't have wisdom/charisma scores it is an object. If it does it might not be an object (but then again it might still be an object).

or Something with out Wis/Cha is always an object, but an object is not always something with-out Wis/Cha

Sort of like a sqaure is always a rectangle, but a rectangle is not always a sqaure.

certian objects are also creatures, and they have the construct type and are effected as if they were creatures rather then objects. other objects may have wis/cha scores, but unless they have the construct type (and are consturted with the craft construct feat I would go so far as to say) they are not creatures and are effected as is any other object.
PhaedrusXY
04-25-04, 12:00 AM They didn't make anything up. The rules explicitly state that Intelligent items are creatures. From the Magic Items VI section of the SRD: Intelligent items can actually be considered creatures because they have Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Treat them as constructs.
wdarkk
04-25-04, 04:54 AM Yay! This will be quite helpful.
Wizard
04-25-04, 10:29 AM :blush: I stand corrected, then. To the FAQ it goes!
Seeker95
04-26-04, 07:55 AM And both the FAQ and the core rules make (post hoc) sense. Once an "object" has both wisdom and charisma, you're dealing with something other than simple AI. It has ego and ID as well.

I like this ruling, and all the rp implications it opens!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Heron_Marked_Blade 04-24-04, 09:49 PM	In the most recent update to the 3.5 Main FAQ, the following question was asked and answered: Question: In a game I run, one of my players tried to use Mordenkainen's disjunction on a golem. The spell failed to get through the antimagic field provided by the golem's creator, so I didn't have to make a ruling this time. My question is, would it have worked? Is a golem more of a creature, having been listed in the Monster Manual, or a magic item, as it's created just like one? On that subject, a golem is immune to magical effects, whould this include Mordenkainen's disjunction? That is, is a golem a magical effect for purposes of resolving a Mordenkainen's disjunction spell? Answer: You can't disjoin a golem because a golem is a creature, not a magic item or magical effect. Anything that has both a Charisma score and a Wisdom score is a creature, not an object.* Mordenkainen's disjunction would destroy any magical effect a golem was using, such as a slow effect from a stone golem. *underline mine That's an interesting statement. Does this mean that intelligent magic items with a Charisma and Wisdom score do not count as magic items for the purpose of resolving a Mordenkainen's disjunction spell? What do you guys think?
Wizard 04-24-04, 09:57 PM	I think they pulled this ruling out of their a**es. Nothing besides this indicates that intelligent items are any different in vulnerability to magic (except that their Wis mod is applied to Will saves) than unintelligent ones. Personally, though, I'd have allowed the MD to work, even on the golem. Craft Construct is an item creation feat, after all.
UZI 04-24-04, 10:51 PM	The information about the wisdom and charisma scores is in the back of one of the core books (I actually just read it last night or this morning, before encountering it in the updated FAQ). Also, if something has no wisdom, it must have no charisma, and vice versa. Such things are objects. Very interesting question about intelligent items. I might think you could end up with an intelligent, yet impotent, magic item. The question is: does an intelligent items count as a creature? And if so, what does that mean for the disjunction? For that matter, would an intelligent sword still have an intelligence in an anti-magic field?
cwslyclgh 04-24-04, 11:56 PM	I would personaly rule that unless they possess the construct type theya re not actually creatures regardless of if they have a wisdom/charisma score... if you read the PHB carefully you will see that it things lacking wisdom/charisma are objects not creatures... it does not say that things with widom/charisma scores are nesscecarily creatures... I can see it as being able to be read like this: if it doesn't have wisdom/charisma scores it is an object. If it does it might not be an object (but then again it might still be an object). or Something with out Wis/Cha is always an object, but an object is not always something with-out Wis/Cha Sort of like a sqaure is always a rectangle, but a rectangle is not always a sqaure. certian objects are also creatures, and they have the construct type and are effected as if they were creatures rather then objects. other objects may have wis/cha scores, but unless they have the construct type (and are consturted with the craft construct feat I would go so far as to say) they are not creatures and are effected as is any other object.
PhaedrusXY 04-25-04, 12:00 AM	They didn't make anything up. The rules explicitly state that Intelligent items are creatures. From the Magic Items VI section of the SRD: Intelligent items can actually be considered creatures because they have Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Treat them as constructs.
wdarkk 04-25-04, 04:54 AM	Yay! This will be quite helpful.
Wizard 04-25-04, 10:29 AM	:blush: I stand corrected, then. To the FAQ it goes!
Seeker95 04-26-04, 07:55 AM	And both the FAQ and the core rules make (post hoc) sense. Once an "object" has both wisdom and charisma, you're dealing with something other than simple AI. It has ego and ID as well. I like this ruling, and all the rp implications it opens!