Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harmor 09-06-04, 04:33 AM	I want to create this spell so I could get an item on my person immediately (1-standard action), instead of having to use a full-round or greater action where it might mean my life is at stake. This spell is based off of Teleport Object (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/theraven_stephenh/spells/Teleport_Object.html), but very limited. Summon Personal Belonging Conjuration (Teleportation) Level: Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: One object on your person upto 5 lbs. and 1 cu. ft. Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None and Will negates (object) Spell Resistance: No and Yes (object) This spell functions like teleport, except that it teleports an object on your person into your hands. Creatures, magical forces or an object in an extradimentional or extraplanar container can not be teleported in this manner. I want to create this spell because sometimes I need to access an item that may take a full-round or longer to access. In my case I want to retrive a scroll inside my scroll-case. Rather than doing the move-action to retrive the scroll-case and then the full-round action to retrive a specific scroll I can think of the scroll I want and cast the spell and that scroll would in a standard-action pop-into my hand. Here are the changes: 1. Level reduced from level 7 to level 1. 2. Added a somantic component to the spell. 3. Changed range to Personal. 4. Reduced maximum weight to 5 lbs. 5. Reduced maximum volume to 1 cubic foot. What do you think?
SALDAR 09-06-04, 05:44 AM	Retrieving a stored item, such as a scroll in a scroll case, is a move equivilant action. Casting a spell from a scroll is a standard action. This spell is unnecessary as you could retrieve a scroll and cast the spell on it in the same round. It is not a full round action to retrieve a specific scroll from a scroll case as it would be considered retrieving a stored item, not retrieving a stored item from a stored item.
Damaskenos 09-06-04, 06:42 AM	... This spell is unnecessary as.. ...Dunno. Might avoid the AOO for retrieving an item. Also, retrieving an object from a backpack could take a full-round action. What do you think?What is this discrimination against bards? (Sor/Wiz 1) Maybe it could/should be a cantrip? Most of the stuff you'd want to have within arms reach, you could grab with a free-action or as a move action. If you plan on keeping it as 1st level maybe drop the S requirement (might prove to be handy in a grapple situation).
SALDAR 09-06-04, 06:53 AM	Posted by Damaskenos: "Might avoid the AOO for retrieving an item." But not for casting the spell. Also from Damaskenos: "retrieving an object from a backpack could take a full-round action" I haven't seen this anywhere, just removing a stored item.
Harmor 09-06-04, 07:15 AM	Ok maybe I should preface that in our campaign my DM said that selecting a specific scroll from a stack of scrolls is a full-round action. Thus in our campaign to retrieve a specific scroll from a scroll-case would be: 1. MEA to retrieve a scroll-case from backpack. 2. Full-round action to find specific scroll in the scroll-case 3. Standard action to cast the scroll (assuming that the scroll takes a standard action to cast). He also houseruled that a scroll with more than 1 spell on it cannot fit into a scroll organizer, which would normally only require a MEA to retrieve. Do you really think it should be a 0th level spell? I know bards have that spell "summon instrument", but that spell is summoning a generic instrument from wherever I think?
Damaskenos 09-06-04, 07:38 AM	But not for casting the spell.Sure. But you can cast defensively; doesn't quite apply for retrieving an item. Btw, this isn't really that relevant in regards to the original posting. I haven't seen this anywhere, just removing a stored item.Our DM implements such a rule when retrieving items that are not easily accessible; it makes sense in my opinion. Probably just a house rule (a lot of people do that stuff - quite scary), as I can't recall reading such a rule either. Anyways, I used 'could' not 'would'. Do you really think it should be a 0th level spell? I know bards have that spell "summon instrument", but that spell is summoning a generic instrument from wherever I think?Given that the spell doesn't actually do anything that spectacular, I'd say it makes a nifty cantrip. Not that I've given any actual though to how the spell could be abused. Also, as SALDAR seems to think the spell is useless, I guess there is no objection so far. =P
Qube 09-06-04, 07:46 AM	1. MEA to retrieve a scroll-case from backpack. 2. Full-round action to find specific scroll in the scroll-case 3. Standard action to cast the scroll (assuming that the scroll takes a standard action to cast). we use MeqA to get an item out of a container ( MEqA to get case out of backpack, MEqA to get scroll from scrollcase, ...)
Harmor 09-06-04, 07:49 AM	we use MeqA to get an item out of a container ( MEqA to get case out of backpack, MEqA to get scroll from scrollcase, ...)You are correct that its a MEA to get an item out of a container, but my GM said that its a full-round action to find a specific scroll in stack of scrolls inside my scroll case. Gotta love Rule 0 :rolleyes:
SALDAR 09-06-04, 07:57 AM	These house rules for retrieving items makes using scrolls pretty much useless. In Harmor's case it takes two rounds to retrieve a scroll and a third to cast it and would provoke AoOs all three rounds. In Damaskenos' it takes two rounds, one to retrieve and one to cast, with each provoking an AoO. Scrolls are intended to allow a caster to carry extra spells beyond what they can memorize. Your DMs are effectively penalizing you for being better prepared. And this on top of the cost in gold and experience points to create the scrolls. Sorry for going off topic. As for the spell itself, considering your situation, it should be a 0 level spell for any class that creates and uses scrolls on a regular basis, including Sor, Wiz, Bard, Cleric, Druid. Other than this level change the spell looks good. If you allow Rule 0 to spread throughout the rules enough then all you have is Rule 0 and the rules themselves become worthless, a value of 0. DMs are not gods and any Rule 0 imposed on players without discussion or the right to veto it detracts from everyone's enjoyment of the game.
Damaskenos 09-06-04, 08:18 AM	These house rules for retrieving items makes using scrolls pretty much useless. ... In Damaskenos' it takes two rounds, one to retrieve and one to cast, with each provoking an AoO. ... I was just pointing out an exception (our DM has), which would make the spell of use in our campaign. I don't think the rule is too harsh. The MeA rule applies to retrieving a scroll from a scroll belt, etc. Such equipment isn't overtly expensive if memory serves me correctly. I don't like the house rule (2. Full-round action to find specific scroll in the scroll-case) implemented in Harmor's campaign either; that is very restrictive.
Loren Pechtel 09-07-04, 12:16 AM	I want to create this spell so I could get an item on my person immediately (1-standard action), instead of having to use a full-round or greater action where it might mean my life is at stake. This spell is based off of Teleport Object (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/theraven_stephenh/spells/Teleport_Object.html), but very limited. Summon Personal Belonging Conjuration (Teleportation) Level: Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: One object on your person upto 5 lbs. and 1 cu. ft. Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None and Will negates (object) Spell Resistance: No and Yes (object) This spell functions like teleport, except that it teleports an object on your person into your hands. Creatures, magical forces or an object in an extradimentional or extraplanar container can not be teleported in this manner. I want to create this spell because sometimes I need to access an item that may take a full-round or longer to access. In my case I want to retrive a scroll inside my scroll-case. Rather than doing the move-action to retrive the scroll-case and then the full-round action to retrive a specific scroll I can think of the scroll I want and cast the spell and that scroll would in a standard-action pop-into my hand. Here are the changes: 1. Level reduced from level 7 to level 1. 2. Added a somantic component to the spell. 3. Changed range to Personal. 4. Reduced maximum weight to 5 lbs. 5. Reduced maximum volume to 1 cubic foot. What do you think? I think it's level 0 as written. For level 1 I'd allow it to reach into extradimensional storage and handle anything you can lift. Quick item retrieval simply isn't all that expensive in the items that have it. The handy haversack is priced below a continious level 1 spell and the conversion of the belt of many pouches uses a similar price.
Heron_Marked_Blade 09-07-04, 12:32 AM	I don't play that scrolls are jumbled into a scroll case (unless you've rolled two or more scrolls into the same individual scroll case). A character with a genius-level Intelligence and the ability to shape the powers of the Cosmos to his purpose is surely going to have his spell scrolls organized in a scroll case, as well as have his spell scrolls clearly marked (unless you subscribe to the philosophy that INT 15+ = 'absent-minded professor' syndrome). 6 seconds to locate one specific scroll out of the lot? I can see it on the rare occasions, but not on average. If your life depends on accurately locating and swiftly removing a particular scroll out of your scroll collection, you're going to streamline the process. MEA in my book (or I might have them roll a DC 5 Dex check to see if they fumble, but I probably won't require that check).