Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Edymnion 07-19-04, 10:35 PM	Question: In 3.5, what non-direct damage spells still have variable numbers assotiated with them? The spells I can think of off the top of my head, like the buff spells, and Sleep, which had you roll for duration/power/etc were set to a flat number, making them useless for the Maximize/Empower standpoint. So, without having to go through every 3.5 spell one by one, does anyone know a non-direct damage (like fireball or magic missle) spell that still has variable effects? I'm wondering if all of these flattened out spells have also worked towards depowering the Max/Emp Spell feats or not.
Egres 07-20-04, 09:04 AM	Ray of Enfeeblement. Enervation. Energy Drain.
The_Ditto 07-20-04, 09:32 AM	To add to Egres' list: Monster Summoning (2-9) (for number of creatures summoned) Hypnotism Touch of Idiocy Hypnotic Pattern Mirror Image False Life Prying Eyes Circle of Death Undeath to Death Spell Turning Timestop
Egres 07-20-04, 10:02 AM	Color Spray Ghoul Touch Pyrotechnics Stinking Cloud
Zherog 07-20-04, 10:49 AM	The cure spells kinda, sorta fit the criteria - at least in some instances.
tarkin 07-20-04, 11:04 AM	Not on topic, but related. Maximize/Empower may not work on spells without variable components, but Admixture, Repeat and Twin do. Admixture requires an elemental aspect that can be rare, but Repeat spell is VERY usefull. Are you a 11th level caster that knows Dispell Magic and Greater Dispell Magic? NEVER memorize Greater Dispell Magic - it is only = 5% greater chance of working than regular Dispell Magic. Instead memorize a Repeated Dispell Magic, it greatly increases your chance of failure.
Nerhesi 07-20-04, 12:33 PM	uhm.. isn't repeated just the same spell again still with the maximum of +10 to the roll? So if the caster is level 14 or so (as an example), a repeated Dispel magic cast by a level 13 or less wizard would NEVER work? or am I confusing repeated?
Dunbar 07-20-04, 01:33 PM	Originally posted by Nerhesi uhm.. isn't repeated just the same spell again still with the maximum of +10 to the roll? So if the caster is level 14 or so (as an example), a repeated Dispel magic cast by a level 13 or less wizard would NEVER work? or am I confusing repeated? To dispel an effect by a 14th level caster, you need to roll a 25 on your dispel check. As a 13th level wizard, you could cast greater dispelling at 1d20+13...you succeed on a 12 or better, or 45% of the time. Or you could cast a repeated dispel magic at 1d20+10. You need to roll a 15 to succeed, which you do 30% of the time. But you get to do this twice, so against each effect your chance of failing twice is 49%...so you will dispel any individual buff 51% of the time, better odds than with greater dispelling.
Pentar 07-20-04, 02:23 PM	Where can I find the Repeated Magic feat? If it's not copy-write protected, could someone tell me what it does here? I've never heard of it before - it sounds sort of like Twin Spell though...
tarkin 07-20-04, 03:12 PM	Twin spell costs +4 levels and does the the same spell twice in that round. Repeat Spell costs +3 levels and does the same spell again next round. Otherwise, they are identical. Also a Repeated (or twinned) Dispell Magic is Better than a Greater Dispell Magic in another way: For area effects, you can theoretically Dispell two spells per target instead of one.
Pentar 07-20-04, 03:16 PM	Ahh, thanks for the explanation Tarkin. Does the Repeated spell count as your standard action for the next round as well? Or is it essentially a "free" effect the next round? i.e. Round 1: I cast a Repeat Spell Dispel Magic. First one goes off and does its thing. Round 2: The 2nd Repeated Dispel Magic goes off, but for free, so I can spend my action casting another spell?
tarkin 07-20-04, 04:04 PM	It is free, you can easily cast a Repeat Dispell Magic this turn, then cast a Summon Monster spell next turn. But it does have to have the exact same target.
Dunbar 07-20-04, 05:54 PM	Yeah, repeat spell targets the same area (if an area type spell) or the same target (creature or object or whatever), but fails if that creature has moved more than 30ft from its initial location. So if a wizard is flying and identifies that you have cast repeated dispel magic*, then he can fly out of range (or, if you dispelled his fly spell, he'll fall 60ft via a featherfall-like effect and be out of range). * I'm not sure if you can identify metamagic effects on a spell with spellcraft, or if the wizard will only know that you cast dispel magic.
Edymnion 07-20-04, 06:20 PM	Originally posted by Dunbar * I'm not sure if you can identify metamagic effects on a spell with spellcraft, or if the wizard will only know that you cast dispel magic. Dunno, I know that Still Spell and Silent Spell increases the check DC by +2 each (presumably because you aren't getting the words/gestures as hints). Don't think I've ever seen anything that essentially lets you go "Okay, he cast a Fireball. No, wait, it was an Empowered Fireball!" Think you just have to take the metagaming clues (full action casting) and any hints from the spell acting differantly to metagame the answer.
Egres 07-20-04, 11:47 PM	Dunno, I know that Still Spell and Silent Spell increases the check DC by +2 each (presumably because you aren't getting the words/gestures as hints). I've house-ruled that you can't make a spellcraft check to dispel a spell while it's been casting if it has no components. You have no way to understand the spell's "basics".
Someone 07-21-04, 01:43 AM	Power Word: Stun and PW: Blind the alignment word spells: Holy Word, Blasphemy, Word of Chaos, and Dictum As a side note, can you empower/ maximize the d20 roll of dispel magic?
dantedarkstar 07-21-04, 03:17 AM	As a side note, can you empower/ maximize the d20 roll of dispel magic? No. While it's not clearly said in SRD, dispel magic was given as example of opposed rolls that are not empowered/maximized in 3.0 handbook (as far as I remember).