3.5 Quiver of Flame Arrows [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.5 Quiver of Flame Arrows [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Harmor
02-17-04, 04:32 AM I think I saw this in a book once but don't remember exactly where it was. So I thought of this:

Quiver of Flame Arrows
This quiver is fashioned from red dragon hide and fine silver. It can shrink or enlarge to accommodate any type of bow or crossbow ammunition (e.g. crossbow bolts, shortbow arrows, but not sling bullets or shirkens etc.) upto and including bow or crossbow ammunition for a medium creature. Three times per day the quiver casts flame arrow on its concents (upto 20 arrows or 10 bolts at a time).
Faint transmutation; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item, flame arrow; Price 16,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

Could easily see a version for sling bullets, like "Flaming Sling Bullet Pouch"...

I based this item from the Scabbard of Keen Edge (3.5 DMG 266).

What do you think? Is the cost too high since this is limiting it to only bow and crossbow ammunition?
Heron_Marked_Blade
02-17-04, 07:26 AM SL 3 x CL 5 x 1800 (command) / 1.67 (charges) = 16,167gp.

I think 16,000gp is an acceptable price for an item that grants +1d6 fire damage to ammunition for 50 minutes 3 times per day. You might as well get your bow enchanted with the flaming ability, unless you already have a +4 weapon.
smrtgmp
02-17-04, 07:28 AM Originally posted by Heron_Marked_Blade
You might as well get your bow enchanted with the flaming ability, unless you already have a +4 weapon.
I like this idea better than the quiver, myself
tarkin
02-17-04, 11:38 AM This item is ALMOST fairly done in my opinion.

It needs an explicit ruling preventing sharing of arrows.

I would state that the arrows lose their magical abilityif fired by someone that is not wearing the quiver. Even saying that the arrows's fire harms those not wearing the quiver is not enough as some bright person will get Fire resistance and take the minimal damage.

Otherwise one person buys the quiver, uses it 1, passes out the 12 arrows, and effectively three people end up using the same magic item.

Note to Heron_Marked_Blade: When making weapon enchantments people have a HUGE tendency to ignore the rules or try to cheat them. Under NO circumstances is it fair/good idea/reasonable to use the Wonderous Item method (spell level x caster level) to price something that affects a wea

That method is just beggin to be abused, as demonstrated by the munchkins that try to use Magic Fang and Greater Magic Fang.
Sancus
02-17-04, 12:21 PM Sorry, Tarkin, but your post makes no sense.

1) Flame Arrow, the spell, can be used to share out arrows. Thus, I fail to see any reason that a limited use/day item that casts Flame Arrow should not be able to do the same thing.

2) This item is EVEN MORE limited than a 3 uses/day cast of Flame Arrow as it will only do 20 arrows or 10 bolts per use, while Flame Arrow the spell can affect up to 50 pieces of any ammunition per casting.

Thus, I would allow this item at 16,000gp and even note that it's probably a little on the expensive side for what it does.

If you have a wizard/sorcerer/rogue with UMD in your party, getting a wand of flame arrow would be much cheaper and more flexible.

This certainly isn't as good as having the flaming enchantment on your bow as it's very limited in both time and amount of ammunition.

At low levels, your flaming(+1) enchantment isn't going to cost you nearly as much as this, and at high levels, flaming is better because you go through a lot of ammunition.

An archer with 4 attacks would use up all the arrows from one use of this item in a mere 5 rounds, and you need to use an action to flame your ammunition before you can fire, which is a waste of an entire round unless you get prep time before the combat, which doesn't always happen.

If you share out the arrows, the archers will run out even faster. It's not even worth considering using this item for bolts, 10 bolts is 1/5 of that of a normal cast of Flame Arrow.

I'm not sure why the lesser amount of bolts, bolts are usually smaller than arrows, I'd just put it as 20 arrows or bolts and leave it at that.

So yes, this item is priced fairly, and is possibly even somewhat overpriced.
Heron_Marked_Blade
02-17-04, 02:54 PM Originally posted by tarkin
Note to Heron_Marked_Blade:
Yeah, I don't use that method myself. I did the calculations to figure out the price, then thought the price was actually balanced for once, so posted it.

I'm a big proponent of "price it according to its (honest) value," not "find the cheapest method of pricing."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harmor 02-17-04, 04:32 AM	I think I saw this in a book once but don't remember exactly where it was. So I thought of this: Quiver of Flame Arrows This quiver is fashioned from red dragon hide and fine silver. It can shrink or enlarge to accommodate any type of bow or crossbow ammunition (e.g. crossbow bolts, shortbow arrows, but not sling bullets or shirkens etc.) upto and including bow or crossbow ammunition for a medium creature. Three times per day the quiver casts flame arrow on its concents (upto 20 arrows or 10 bolts at a time). Faint transmutation; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item, flame arrow; Price 16,000 gp; Weight 1 lb. Could easily see a version for sling bullets, like "Flaming Sling Bullet Pouch"... I based this item from the Scabbard of Keen Edge (3.5 DMG 266). What do you think? Is the cost too high since this is limiting it to only bow and crossbow ammunition?
Heron_Marked_Blade 02-17-04, 07:26 AM	SL 3 x CL 5 x 1800 (command) / 1.67 (charges) = 16,167gp. I think 16,000gp is an acceptable price for an item that grants +1d6 fire damage to ammunition for 50 minutes 3 times per day. You might as well get your bow enchanted with the flaming ability, unless you already have a +4 weapon.
smrtgmp 02-17-04, 07:28 AM	Originally posted by Heron_Marked_Blade You might as well get your bow enchanted with the flaming ability, unless you already have a +4 weapon. I like this idea better than the quiver, myself
tarkin 02-17-04, 11:38 AM	This item is ALMOST fairly done in my opinion. It needs an explicit ruling preventing sharing of arrows. I would state that the arrows lose their magical abilityif fired by someone that is not wearing the quiver. Even saying that the arrows's fire harms those not wearing the quiver is not enough as some bright person will get Fire resistance and take the minimal damage. Otherwise one person buys the quiver, uses it 1, passes out the 12 arrows, and effectively three people end up using the same magic item. Note to Heron_Marked_Blade: When making weapon enchantments people have a HUGE tendency to ignore the rules or try to cheat them. Under NO circumstances is it fair/good idea/reasonable to use the Wonderous Item method (spell level x caster level) to price something that affects a wea That method is just beggin to be abused, as demonstrated by the munchkins that try to use Magic Fang and Greater Magic Fang.
Sancus 02-17-04, 12:21 PM	Sorry, Tarkin, but your post makes no sense. 1) Flame Arrow, the spell, can be used to share out arrows. Thus, I fail to see any reason that a limited use/day item that casts Flame Arrow should not be able to do the same thing. 2) This item is EVEN MORE limited than a 3 uses/day cast of Flame Arrow as it will only do 20 arrows or 10 bolts per use, while Flame Arrow the spell can affect up to 50 pieces of any ammunition per casting. Thus, I would allow this item at 16,000gp and even note that it's probably a little on the expensive side for what it does. If you have a wizard/sorcerer/rogue with UMD in your party, getting a wand of flame arrow would be much cheaper and more flexible. This certainly isn't as good as having the flaming enchantment on your bow as it's very limited in both time and amount of ammunition. At low levels, your flaming(+1) enchantment isn't going to cost you nearly as much as this, and at high levels, flaming is better because you go through a lot of ammunition. An archer with 4 attacks would use up all the arrows from one use of this item in a mere 5 rounds, and you need to use an action to flame your ammunition before you can fire, which is a waste of an entire round unless you get prep time before the combat, which doesn't always happen. If you share out the arrows, the archers will run out even faster. It's not even worth considering using this item for bolts, 10 bolts is 1/5 of that of a normal cast of Flame Arrow. I'm not sure why the lesser amount of bolts, bolts are usually smaller than arrows, I'd just put it as 20 arrows or bolts and leave it at that. So yes, this item is priced fairly, and is possibly even somewhat overpriced.
Heron_Marked_Blade 02-17-04, 02:54 PM	Originally posted by tarkin Note to Heron_Marked_Blade: Yeah, I don't use that method myself. I did the calculations to figure out the price, then thought the price was actually balanced for once, so posted it. I'm a big proponent of "price it according to its (honest) value," not "find the cheapest method of pricing."