3.5 So I need to destroy a Staff of the Magi... [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.5 So I need to destroy a Staff of the Magi... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Harmor
07-28-04, 05:29 AM For role playing purposes I need to destroy this cursed Staff of the Magi, but my character knows about the Retributive Strike ability that this staff has. The staff is keyed to an evil mage that, when the staff is destroyed, he is automatically destroyed as well.

Since I know this can I:

1. Destroy the staff at a distance of 35 feet+ and not take any damage?

2. If I destroy the staff at range is it really destroyed or just teleported to the astrial plane?

3. How much damage do I take exactly at each range increment? (Maximum of 8x50 or 200 points of damage?) If I survive the damage and am not teleported to another plane am I still alive?

4. What is the Strength DC to destroy it?

5. What are the stats for the staff to sunder it? Does it have the same stats as a masterwork quarterstaff?

6. If I sit there casting spells at it does it automatically absorb the spell levels as charges OR do I have to voluntarily lower the SR as the wielder to gain charges?

7. If I Dimentionally Lock (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/theraven_stephenh/spells/Dimensional_Lock.html) myself do I still teleport to another plane?

8. If I'm the wielder and just break it, but don't willing want to do a Retributive Strike, does it do it anyway?

For reference:
Staff of the Magi: A long wooden staff, shod in iron and inscribed with sigils and runes of all types, this potent artifact contains many spell powers and other functions. Some of its powers use charges, while others don’t. The following powers do not use charges:
Detect magic
Enlarge person (Fortitude DC 15 negates)
Hold portal
Light
Mage armor
Mage hand
The following powers drain 1 charge per usage:
Dispel magic
Fireball (10d6 damage, Reflex DC 17 half )
Ice storm
Invisibility
Knock
Lightning bolt (10d6 damage, Reflex DC 17 half )
Passwall
Pyrotechnics (Will or Fortitude DC 16 negates)
Wall of fire
Web
These powers drain 2 charges per usage:
Monster summoning IX
Plane shift (Will DC 21 negates)
Telekinesis (400 lb. maximum weight; Will DC 19 negates)
A staff of the magi gives the wielder spell resistance 23. If this is willingly lowered, however, the staff can also be used to absorb arcane spell energy directed at its wielder, as a rod of absorption does. Unlike the rod, this staff converts spell levels into charges rather than retaining them as spell energy usable by a spellcaster. If the staff absorbs enough spell levels to exceed its limit of 50 charges, it explodes as if a retributive strike had been performed (see below). The wielder has no idea how many spell levels are cast at her, for the staff does not communicate this knowledge as a rod of absorption does. (Thus, absorbing spells can be risky.)

Retributive Strike: A staff of the magi can be broken for a retributive strike. Such an act must be purposeful and declared by the wielder. All charges in the staff are released in a 30-foot spread. All within 10 feet of the broken staff take hit points of damage equal to 8 times the number of charges in the staff, those between 11 feet and 20 feet away take points equal to 6 times the number of charges, and those 21 feet to 30 feet distant take 4 times the number of charges. A DC 17 Reflex save reduces damage by half.

The character breaking the staff has a 50% chance (01–50 on d%) of traveling to another plane of existence, but if she does not (51–100), the explosive release of spell energy destroys her. Only specific items, including the staff of the magi and the staff of power are capable of a retributive strike.

Strong (all schools); CL 20th;Weight 5 lb.
Frank the Vandal
07-28-04, 05:52 AM According to the DMG, a typical staff "has AC 7, 10 HP, hardness 5 and a break DC of 24".

So it looks like you could just damage it for 10 HP (after overcoming hardness), and it would be destroyed, without any further trouble. To be extra careful, you could do it at range (Disintegrate or Scorching Ray, perhaps?) and/or drain all charges from the staff first.

So, IMHO:
1. Yes
2. Destroyed.
3. At maximum:
200 if within 10 ft
150 if within 20 ft, but not within 10 ft
100 if within 30 ft, but not 20 ft.

4. 24
5. 10 HP, hardness 5
6. I think you have to lower your SR while you're wielding it. After reading the description of the Rod of Absorption, I don't think it takes any other action from you, so you could cast spells at yourself while using this function, I suppose.
7. I don't think so.
8. I don't know.
ajmastrean
07-28-04, 09:26 AM not sure about the retributive strike and all, but here are some ideas on destroying it...

drop it in a volcano from a safe vertical distance
travel to mechanus and crunch it between some of the gears
put it in your bag of holding and throw that in your portable hole
feed it to a dragon (disguise the staff as a tasty halfling or something ;) and see how it goes)

uh...that's it. just avoid being the one who breaks it. deal it enough damage to destroy it.

WAIT! could you dispel magic on it (1d4 rounds of no magic right?) and then break it? is the retributive strike dispelled for that time?
StevenO
07-28-04, 11:47 AM I think any character "holding" a Staff of the Magi (SotM) can break it for a retributive strike. As to your reluctunce, just suck it up and take one for the team. A nice DM should teleport you to another plane or you should try to nudge the chance that way. Once there use greater teleport and you should be able to get back home. You could also drain the staff and hope that counts as destroying it but a retributive strike is a purposeful act and suffers the consequences.
Heron_Marked_Blade
07-28-04, 12:47 PM The easiest method would be to use the staff until it only has 1 charge left, THEN break it in a retributive strike. I don't know of many higher level spellcasters who CAN'T take 8 points of damage. This would be dependent on your DM ruling that it'd be the damage that kills you not the breaking of the staff.

If your DM rules that you have a 50% chance of dying regardless of the number of charges left, you might attempt to use telekinesis from a distance to break the staff and avoid the damage. If the 50% chance of dying is due to breaking the staff in a retributive strike, and not due to proximity, then I'd have the fighter sunder it. Then sunder the pieces. Then sunder those pieces, until you have a pile of kindling. That, IMO, would effectively qualify as "destroying the staff", but it wouldn't be a retributive strike and neither you nor the fighter would be subject to the 50% plane shift/death rule.
Stuntman
07-28-04, 01:42 PM Just use Summon Monster ability of the staff itself to summon a monster capable of breaking the staff. Command the monster to take the staff some safe distance away and break it with a retributive strike.
Stuntman
07-28-04, 01:46 PM Originally posted by Stuntman
Just use Summon Monster (an ability of the staff itself if you cannot cast it yourself) to summon a monster capable of breaking the staff. Command the monster to take the staff some safe distance away and break it with a retributive strike.
Salla
07-28-04, 02:34 PM Just break the darn thing over your knee.

A Retributive Strike must be actively declared by the wielder of the staff. If it's broken for any other reason, it doesn't explode.
Dunbar
07-28-04, 04:15 PM I agree with Salla. From your own post of the description of the item:

Retributive Strike: A staff of the magi can be broken for a retributive strike. Such an act must be purposeful and declared by the wielder.

So you must declare that you are making a retributive strike.

However, and this is very important, how I would handle this would depend more on my DM than my understanding of the rules. By the rules, clearly you can break it without intending a retributive strike and be fine. But, if your DM decides differently...well, a single rule 0 and you are rolling a 50% chance to be destroyed.

If you even suspect that your DM would rule the staff explodes even if you don't want it to, don't tempt fate. Place it on a hard surface and drop a boulder on it (using shrink or telekinesis).

Heron_Marked_Blade: there is a problem with your theory. And that is:

The character breaking the staff has a 50% chance (01–50 on d%) of traveling to another plane of existence, but if she does not (51–100), the explosive release of spell energy destroys her.

Even if it only does 8 points of damage, you still have a 50% chance of being destroyed.

Actually, that brings up another problem...it specifies the breaker of the staff. So if you break it by casting spells at it and your DM decides a retributive strike goes off, he could say that since you broke it you have a 50% chance to be destroyed no matter what. So, to be totally safe, have a summoned creature break it or something.
Salla
07-28-04, 04:16 PM Excellent points from Dunbar, but I generally like to hope that my DMs aren't total putzes.
Thomar_of_Uointer
07-28-04, 06:26 PM You can never be too careful. I'd put it in an antimagic shell, then get a Fighter to snap it in half.
Frank the Vandal
07-28-04, 07:25 PM Originally posted by Thomar of Uointer
You can never be too careful. I'd put it in an antimagic shell, then get a Fighter to snap it in half.

Extremely good idea.
lanilifar
07-28-04, 08:05 PM According to the DMG, a typical staff
Just break the darn thing over your knee.

You do realize this is a freakin' artifact, right?

I don't see how one could compare a typical staff and a Staff of the Magi, and think it can be broken simply (except when using the retributive strike, which has a 50% chance of killing you).

If your DM rules that you have a 50% chance of dying regardless of the number of charges left
Which is what the text says, so most DMs would rule this way.
Phrennzy
07-28-04, 09:20 PM Since it is in the description that it can be used as a retributive strike, I would rule that the weilder can easily break it to perform that strike.

I would rule that such a strike could not happen inside an antimagic shell, because that would dampen the magic of the item, negating the strike, and thus negating the reason for breaking it.

Regardless of the number of charges, the breaker has a 50% chance of being destroyed.

The Retributive Strike was built into the Staff of the Magi as a last ditch, middle-finger-in-your-face, we-die-together mechanism. It cannot be circumvented by telekinesis or boulders or ordering some sad summoned creature.

It is an artifact, and artifact have their own rules about who can do what with them.

Take the staff to the highest point overlooking the city, and - using magic to amplify your voice - make a very stirring speech about how your action now dooms the BBEG and that you willingly sacrifice yourself to end his evil, and then go out with a bang.

Suck it up and don't puss out. Break that bad boy over your knee and pray you end up on the Astral. If not, you just became a hero. Either way, its a good story.
Lord-Gawain
07-28-04, 09:20 PM The summon monster idea would work fine as long as you can communicate with the creature summoned. Or you could use the simulacrum spell to make a duplicate of yourself if you just can't bear to have someone else do the retributive strike for you. There's no reason you should have to even worry about being close enough to take damage.

Or the idea of using most of the charges first and then doing the retributive strike yourself would be fine also, although you better be prepared for planar travel in that case.

Or if you are evil you could simply dominate someone and have them do it for you.
BlaineTog
07-28-04, 09:47 PM Put it on the ground and Flaming Hands it to death. :D
Kaardomos
07-28-04, 10:25 PM Originally posted by Phrennzy
I would rule that such a strike could not happen inside an antimagic shell, because that would dampen the magic of the item, negating the strike, and thus negating the reason for breaking it.
I'ld rule that the "artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this" clause of antimagic field would take effect, resulting in a large boom.
Dark_and_Stormy
10-12-04, 12:21 AM Bag of Devouring... :)

Also, a Sphere of Annihalation (sp?) should do the trick...
carnivore
10-12-04, 07:43 AM cast a shadow conjuration and have a shadow conjured creature break it that way no one dies or is transported to another plane
White Mage
10-12-04, 09:34 AM Doesn't the damn thing become a useless stick when you reduce the charges to 0?
kSquared
10-12-04, 10:01 AM Yes, more or less, it does. IIRC, you can't use a retributive strike on a staff with no charges.
Huan
10-12-04, 10:29 AM Short and dirty way: Just have someone break it, die, and be raised again (or have the party quest to find whatever plane they landed on).

Heh, heh.
Hitokiri Battousai
10-12-04, 05:32 PM Eh, I'd just bet some barbarian 100 gp that he can't stand 30 feet away from me and break this staff over his knee... heh heh.

Galstaff: I bet him 100 gp... 100 gp that he couldn't do it...
Nightblade: It's ok man, its not your fault...
Galstaff: Nah man, I'm just really stoked that I don't have to pay him!
Ryoohki
10-12-04, 06:02 PM Yeah. I'd say to just suck it up and be done with it. Take your chances at getting killed. I had a character who broke one of those suckers. I made my reflex save and had evasion so took no damage. Then I made my 50% roll and lived. If I had died, oh well...would have had to get raised. Woulda sucked, but it is for the greater good. You'll remember it better if you don't try to wuss out by working a way around it.

Kyle
Warmage-in-Onley
10-12-04, 08:13 PM So all your summoned, conjured, or hoodwinked wielders declare that they're making a purposeful retributive strike ?
Mitchell
10-12-04, 11:51 PM Step 1: Clone spell on your character.
Step 2: Break staff.

You can go far away from everyone to break it, break it in front of an audience, or go find a collection of bad guys and break it there.

In the end, it doesn't matter... If you survive, you survive, if you don't, you have a clone, so it's just like you did.
The only trick is to stay alive for the 2d4 months it takes for the clone to grow.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harmor 07-28-04, 05:29 AM	For role playing purposes I need to destroy this cursed Staff of the Magi, but my character knows about the Retributive Strike ability that this staff has. The staff is keyed to an evil mage that, when the staff is destroyed, he is automatically destroyed as well. Since I know this can I: 1. Destroy the staff at a distance of 35 feet+ and not take any damage? 2. If I destroy the staff at range is it really destroyed or just teleported to the astrial plane? 3. How much damage do I take exactly at each range increment? (Maximum of 8x50 or 200 points of damage?) If I survive the damage and am not teleported to another plane am I still alive? 4. What is the Strength DC to destroy it? 5. What are the stats for the staff to sunder it? Does it have the same stats as a masterwork quarterstaff? 6. If I sit there casting spells at it does it automatically absorb the spell levels as charges OR do I have to voluntarily lower the SR as the wielder to gain charges? 7. If I Dimentionally Lock (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/theraven_stephenh/spells/Dimensional_Lock.html) myself do I still teleport to another plane? 8. If I'm the wielder and just break it, but don't willing want to do a Retributive Strike, does it do it anyway? For reference: Staff of the Magi: A long wooden staff, shod in iron and inscribed with sigils and runes of all types, this potent artifact contains many spell powers and other functions. Some of its powers use charges, while others don’t. The following powers do not use charges: Detect magic Enlarge person (Fortitude DC 15 negates) Hold portal Light Mage armor Mage hand The following powers drain 1 charge per usage: Dispel magic Fireball (10d6 damage, Reflex DC 17 half ) Ice storm Invisibility Knock Lightning bolt (10d6 damage, Reflex DC 17 half ) Passwall Pyrotechnics (Will or Fortitude DC 16 negates) Wall of fire Web These powers drain 2 charges per usage: Monster summoning IX Plane shift (Will DC 21 negates) Telekinesis (400 lb. maximum weight; Will DC 19 negates) A staff of the magi gives the wielder spell resistance 23. If this is willingly lowered, however, the staff can also be used to absorb arcane spell energy directed at its wielder, as a rod of absorption does. Unlike the rod, this staff converts spell levels into charges rather than retaining them as spell energy usable by a spellcaster. If the staff absorbs enough spell levels to exceed its limit of 50 charges, it explodes as if a retributive strike had been performed (see below). The wielder has no idea how many spell levels are cast at her, for the staff does not communicate this knowledge as a rod of absorption does. (Thus, absorbing spells can be risky.) Retributive Strike: A staff of the magi can be broken for a retributive strike. Such an act must be purposeful and declared by the wielder. All charges in the staff are released in a 30-foot spread. All within 10 feet of the broken staff take hit points of damage equal to 8 times the number of charges in the staff, those between 11 feet and 20 feet away take points equal to 6 times the number of charges, and those 21 feet to 30 feet distant take 4 times the number of charges. A DC 17 Reflex save reduces damage by half. The character breaking the staff has a 50% chance (01–50 on d%) of traveling to another plane of existence, but if she does not (51–100), the explosive release of spell energy destroys her. Only specific items, including the staff of the magi and the staff of power are capable of a retributive strike. Strong (all schools); CL 20th;Weight 5 lb.
Frank the Vandal 07-28-04, 05:52 AM	According to the DMG, a typical staff "has AC 7, 10 HP, hardness 5 and a break DC of 24". So it looks like you could just damage it for 10 HP (after overcoming hardness), and it would be destroyed, without any further trouble. To be extra careful, you could do it at range (Disintegrate or Scorching Ray, perhaps?) and/or drain all charges from the staff first. So, IMHO: 1. Yes 2. Destroyed. 3. At maximum: 200 if within 10 ft 150 if within 20 ft, but not within 10 ft 100 if within 30 ft, but not 20 ft. 4. 24 5. 10 HP, hardness 5 6. I think you have to lower your SR while you're wielding it. After reading the description of the Rod of Absorption, I don't think it takes any other action from you, so you could cast spells at yourself while using this function, I suppose. 7. I don't think so. 8. I don't know.
ajmastrean 07-28-04, 09:26 AM	not sure about the retributive strike and all, but here are some ideas on destroying it... drop it in a volcano from a safe vertical distance travel to mechanus and crunch it between some of the gears put it in your bag of holding and throw that in your portable hole feed it to a dragon (disguise the staff as a tasty halfling or something ;) and see how it goes) uh...that's it. just avoid being the one who breaks it. deal it enough damage to destroy it. WAIT! could you dispel magic on it (1d4 rounds of no magic right?) and then break it? is the retributive strike dispelled for that time?
StevenO 07-28-04, 11:47 AM	I think any character "holding" a Staff of the Magi (SotM) can break it for a retributive strike. As to your reluctunce, just suck it up and take one for the team. A nice DM should teleport you to another plane or you should try to nudge the chance that way. Once there use greater teleport and you should be able to get back home. You could also drain the staff and hope that counts as destroying it but a retributive strike is a purposeful act and suffers the consequences.
Heron_Marked_Blade 07-28-04, 12:47 PM	The easiest method would be to use the staff until it only has 1 charge left, THEN break it in a retributive strike. I don't know of many higher level spellcasters who CAN'T take 8 points of damage. This would be dependent on your DM ruling that it'd be the damage that kills you not the breaking of the staff. If your DM rules that you have a 50% chance of dying regardless of the number of charges left, you might attempt to use telekinesis from a distance to break the staff and avoid the damage. If the 50% chance of dying is due to breaking the staff in a retributive strike, and not due to proximity, then I'd have the fighter sunder it. Then sunder the pieces. Then sunder those pieces, until you have a pile of kindling. That, IMO, would effectively qualify as "destroying the staff", but it wouldn't be a retributive strike and neither you nor the fighter would be subject to the 50% plane shift/death rule.
Stuntman 07-28-04, 01:42 PM	Just use Summon Monster ability of the staff itself to summon a monster capable of breaking the staff. Command the monster to take the staff some safe distance away and break it with a retributive strike.
Stuntman 07-28-04, 01:46 PM	Originally posted by Stuntman Just use Summon Monster (an ability of the staff itself if you cannot cast it yourself) to summon a monster capable of breaking the staff. Command the monster to take the staff some safe distance away and break it with a retributive strike.
Salla 07-28-04, 02:34 PM	Just break the darn thing over your knee. A Retributive Strike must be actively declared by the wielder of the staff. If it's broken for any other reason, it doesn't explode.
Dunbar 07-28-04, 04:15 PM	I agree with Salla. From your own post of the description of the item: Retributive Strike: A staff of the magi can be broken for a retributive strike. Such an act must be purposeful and declared by the wielder. So you must declare that you are making a retributive strike. However, and this is very important, how I would handle this would depend more on my DM than my understanding of the rules. By the rules, clearly you can break it without intending a retributive strike and be fine. But, if your DM decides differently...well, a single rule 0 and you are rolling a 50% chance to be destroyed. If you even suspect that your DM would rule the staff explodes even if you don't want it to, don't tempt fate. Place it on a hard surface and drop a boulder on it (using shrink or telekinesis). Heron_Marked_Blade: there is a problem with your theory. And that is: The character breaking the staff has a 50% chance (01–50 on d%) of traveling to another plane of existence, but if she does not (51–100), the explosive release of spell energy destroys her. Even if it only does 8 points of damage, you still have a 50% chance of being destroyed. Actually, that brings up another problem...it specifies the breaker of the staff. So if you break it by casting spells at it and your DM decides a retributive strike goes off, he could say that since you broke it you have a 50% chance to be destroyed no matter what. So, to be totally safe, have a summoned creature break it or something.
Salla 07-28-04, 04:16 PM	Excellent points from Dunbar, but I generally like to hope that my DMs aren't total putzes.
Thomar_of_Uointer 07-28-04, 06:26 PM	You can never be too careful. I'd put it in an antimagic shell, then get a Fighter to snap it in half.
Frank the Vandal 07-28-04, 07:25 PM	Originally posted by Thomar of Uointer You can never be too careful. I'd put it in an antimagic shell, then get a Fighter to snap it in half. Extremely good idea.
lanilifar 07-28-04, 08:05 PM	According to the DMG, a typical staff Just break the darn thing over your knee. You do realize this is a freakin' artifact, right? I don't see how one could compare a typical staff and a Staff of the Magi, and think it can be broken simply (except when using the retributive strike, which has a 50% chance of killing you). If your DM rules that you have a 50% chance of dying regardless of the number of charges left Which is what the text says, so most DMs would rule this way.
Phrennzy 07-28-04, 09:20 PM	Since it is in the description that it can be used as a retributive strike, I would rule that the weilder can easily break it to perform that strike. I would rule that such a strike could not happen inside an antimagic shell, because that would dampen the magic of the item, negating the strike, and thus negating the reason for breaking it. Regardless of the number of charges, the breaker has a 50% chance of being destroyed. The Retributive Strike was built into the Staff of the Magi as a last ditch, middle-finger-in-your-face, we-die-together mechanism. It cannot be circumvented by telekinesis or boulders or ordering some sad summoned creature. It is an artifact, and artifact have their own rules about who can do what with them. Take the staff to the highest point overlooking the city, and - using magic to amplify your voice - make a very stirring speech about how your action now dooms the BBEG and that you willingly sacrifice yourself to end his evil, and then go out with a bang. Suck it up and don't puss out. Break that bad boy over your knee and pray you end up on the Astral. If not, you just became a hero. Either way, its a good story.
Lord-Gawain 07-28-04, 09:20 PM	The summon monster idea would work fine as long as you can communicate with the creature summoned. Or you could use the simulacrum spell to make a duplicate of yourself if you just can't bear to have someone else do the retributive strike for you. There's no reason you should have to even worry about being close enough to take damage. Or the idea of using most of the charges first and then doing the retributive strike yourself would be fine also, although you better be prepared for planar travel in that case. Or if you are evil you could simply dominate someone and have them do it for you.
BlaineTog 07-28-04, 09:47 PM	Put it on the ground and Flaming Hands it to death. :D
Kaardomos 07-28-04, 10:25 PM	Originally posted by Phrennzy I would rule that such a strike could not happen inside an antimagic shell, because that would dampen the magic of the item, negating the strike, and thus negating the reason for breaking it. I'ld rule that the "artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this" clause of antimagic field would take effect, resulting in a large boom.
Dark_and_Stormy 10-12-04, 12:21 AM	Bag of Devouring... :) Also, a Sphere of Annihalation (sp?) should do the trick...
carnivore 10-12-04, 07:43 AM	cast a shadow conjuration and have a shadow conjured creature break it that way no one dies or is transported to another plane
White Mage 10-12-04, 09:34 AM	Doesn't the damn thing become a useless stick when you reduce the charges to 0?
kSquared 10-12-04, 10:01 AM	Yes, more or less, it does. IIRC, you can't use a retributive strike on a staff with no charges.
Huan 10-12-04, 10:29 AM	Short and dirty way: Just have someone break it, die, and be raised again (or have the party quest to find whatever plane they landed on). Heh, heh.
Hitokiri Battousai 10-12-04, 05:32 PM	Eh, I'd just bet some barbarian 100 gp that he can't stand 30 feet away from me and break this staff over his knee... heh heh. Galstaff: I bet him 100 gp... 100 gp that he couldn't do it... Nightblade: It's ok man, its not your fault... Galstaff: Nah man, I'm just really stoked that I don't have to pay him!
Ryoohki 10-12-04, 06:02 PM	Yeah. I'd say to just suck it up and be done with it. Take your chances at getting killed. I had a character who broke one of those suckers. I made my reflex save and had evasion so took no damage. Then I made my 50% roll and lived. If I had died, oh well...would have had to get raised. Woulda sucked, but it is for the greater good. You'll remember it better if you don't try to wuss out by working a way around it. Kyle
Warmage-in-Onley 10-12-04, 08:13 PM	So all your summoned, conjured, or hoodwinked wielders declare that they're making a purposeful retributive strike ?
Mitchell 10-12-04, 11:51 PM	Step 1: Clone spell on your character. Step 2: Break staff. You can go far away from everyone to break it, break it in front of an audience, or go find a collection of bad guys and break it there. In the end, it doesn't matter... If you survive, you survive, if you don't, you have a clone, so it's just like you did. The only trick is to stay alive for the 2d4 months it takes for the clone to grow.