30% off all magic items [Archive] - Wizards Community

30% off all magic items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ClobberinTime
12-30-04, 05:12 PM '—Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the cost by 30%.' from SRD

I was just shocked when I read this, Why would anyone ever make a Magic item for personal use (meaning not for sale) that didn't use this.

Any PC with craft item skills should use this, its an advantage, not a disadvantage, why would thieves try and steal an aligned magic item?? Or wouldn't that orc just leave your +1 sword that he can't use there after you have disarmed etc...

Plus what are the PCs to do when they find out all of the enemies gear only works for characters that are CE.

On the other hand it could be fun too, maybe that key that opens the extradimensional space with the legendary holy avenger only works for someone who is CE, so bring in the dominated orc chieften.

Anyone else think this really changes the game alot?

Is there an Errata on this?
smrtgmp
12-30-04, 05:17 PM Its an easily abusable rule in the hands of a greedy player, but it can be a valuable DMs tool, for reasons you mentioned above. Its always fun the give the players a cool magical item they cant use, especially if having it in their possession can get them into trouble.
cwslyclgh
12-30-04, 05:18 PM the way that I play it, and the way the certain game designers (SKR, AC) have suggested that you do it is that the 30% off comes off the final market price, but not the base price which is used to create the item... the reasoning being that creating an item that only you can use is actually more of abenifit then it is a limitation.
Aracor
12-30-04, 05:20 PM Generally the feeling hers is that the cost listed there only applies to the sale price, not the market price. Because it's harder to sell and not worth as much as if everyone can use it, but it's more of an advantage than a disadvantage because in general the creator "coincidentally" makes the restrictions in such a way that the intended user can use it.

You're right, it's sick when you use that to make all of your magic cheaper than normal.

~Aracor
cwslyclgh
12-30-04, 05:25 PM only applies to the sale price, not the market priceSale price and market price are the same thing... you might be thinking of Market price and Base price.
Aracor
12-30-04, 05:27 PM Sorry, I wasn't trying to use technical terms. "Market Price" as in price that is used for the creation of said item, and "Sale Price" as in price that is used (before cutting in half for PCs) if said item is going to be sold. I was using literal terms.

~Aracor
Raede
12-30-04, 05:27 PM pardon the question but what/who is SRD?
cwslyclgh
12-30-04, 05:36 PM Market price is not used in item creation, the base price is--cost to create is 1/2 the base price (on most items the base price and the market are the same).

The SRD is the System Resource Document... it is what WotC considers to be Open Gaming Content from thier books.
c47
12-30-04, 05:44 PM The way our group has ruled it that the restriction is only considered a restriction if the creator is restricted by it.

i.e. Only usable by elves only counted as a restriction for item creation purposes if the creator was not an elf.

if you created an item that only worked for NE Clerics of GodA and you were a NE cleic of GodA then its not really a restriction for you is it?

Where as if you create an item that only works in bright sunlight, then thats a restriction, as it effect all, including the creator.

Now you could create an item for a party member that you could not use yourself that would be restricted to them but you could not use it. Then that would be counted as a restriction however our party is not THAT altruistic. We tend to want to be able to use the things we've created.
ClobberinTime
12-30-04, 06:10 PM I understand home ruling it to nerf it but my definitive impression is that this meant 30% off the price to create it...

Is the market price based on the lowest possible caster level, and the base price is based on the actual caster level,

or

is it that the market price is the base price plus the price of the masterwork longsword, adamantium full plate etc....

or is it both of the above i.e. market price = lowest level caster plus the cost of the base item.

all in all I like the idea that if just effects market (read sale price, and not the creation cost) but isn't this an unofficial home rule.

What do they do in living greyhawk with this??
Aracor
12-30-04, 08:06 PM What do they do in living greyhawk with this??
Living Greyhawk comepletely removes the option, which IMHO is as it should be.

~Aracor
RPGfish
12-30-04, 08:43 PM That is something that can be good, but can be bad. If you are switching alignment with lots of that stuff on... :surrender . The stuff is good to use as an indicator (pass it around your mercs and see who is LG without using any spells). Are there any spells that would change or remove this?
[GSV] Kirstar
12-30-04, 09:31 PM i personally only count it if its some specific requirement . such as holy avenger for paldin, or some of the bard only instruments.

anything else is munchin. IMO
Snarf
01-01-05, 03:43 AM Yeah, I'm all for removing it, or at least leaving the cost to create unaffected. When you think about it, adding an alignment restriction is really a major benefit...if a NG Wizard wanted to create a +1 sword, wouldn't he be willing to pay more to ensure that his creation will only ever be used in the cause of good?
Kursk
01-01-05, 01:27 PM In my game it's harder (and more expensive) to create a magic item that all can use. The narrower the userbase the cheaper it is to build. Which is why the rule was made in the 1st place.
wtfpwned
01-01-05, 06:15 PM This option is really powerful if your starting at a high lvl, and get to create a bunch of good items for your character before you start the adventure. Not quite as good in long term, because an item you craft at lvl8 is gonna suck at lvl 15 and your gonna wanna sell it. These items have almost no resale value.

To add, I do like the 'its only a restriction if the caster is restricted' but that does not prevent em from making items for the rest of the party on the cheap.
Kursk
01-01-05, 06:41 PM Not quite as good in long term, because an item you craft at lvl8 is gonna suck at lvl 15 and your gonna wanna sell it. These items have almost no resale value.

Yes, it cuts both ways. But making choices is what Role Playing is about...
Iver Gearsham
01-01-05, 10:02 PM Having magic stuff that only works in sun light to get a 30% off just means that you make another of what ever that only works at night and your covered in munchkin town.

I like it for making highly personalized equipment that I can afford to upgrade rather than toss every few lvls like boots of levitation adding Springing and striding boot powers in and then spider climbing and maby Hast/Speed after that then at Epic Telport.

When I do create an item that I can personalize woe be to the foe who dares to take it from me. My mage made it his mission in life to ruin a hobgoblin nation for it.
That took a long time to do but it was satisfiying.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ClobberinTime 12-30-04, 05:12 PM	'—Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the cost by 30%.' from SRD I was just shocked when I read this, Why would anyone ever make a Magic item for personal use (meaning not for sale) that didn't use this. Any PC with craft item skills should use this, its an advantage, not a disadvantage, why would thieves try and steal an aligned magic item?? Or wouldn't that orc just leave your +1 sword that he can't use there after you have disarmed etc... Plus what are the PCs to do when they find out all of the enemies gear only works for characters that are CE. On the other hand it could be fun too, maybe that key that opens the extradimensional space with the legendary holy avenger only works for someone who is CE, so bring in the dominated orc chieften. Anyone else think this really changes the game alot? Is there an Errata on this?
smrtgmp 12-30-04, 05:17 PM	Its an easily abusable rule in the hands of a greedy player, but it can be a valuable DMs tool, for reasons you mentioned above. Its always fun the give the players a cool magical item they cant use, especially if having it in their possession can get them into trouble.
cwslyclgh 12-30-04, 05:18 PM	the way that I play it, and the way the certain game designers (SKR, AC) have suggested that you do it is that the 30% off comes off the final market price, but not the base price which is used to create the item... the reasoning being that creating an item that only you can use is actually more of abenifit then it is a limitation.
Aracor 12-30-04, 05:20 PM	Generally the feeling hers is that the cost listed there only applies to the sale price, not the market price. Because it's harder to sell and not worth as much as if everyone can use it, but it's more of an advantage than a disadvantage because in general the creator "coincidentally" makes the restrictions in such a way that the intended user can use it. You're right, it's sick when you use that to make all of your magic cheaper than normal. ~Aracor
cwslyclgh 12-30-04, 05:25 PM	only applies to the sale price, not the market priceSale price and market price are the same thing... you might be thinking of Market price and Base price.
Aracor 12-30-04, 05:27 PM	Sorry, I wasn't trying to use technical terms. "Market Price" as in price that is used for the creation of said item, and "Sale Price" as in price that is used (before cutting in half for PCs) if said item is going to be sold. I was using literal terms. ~Aracor
Raede 12-30-04, 05:27 PM	pardon the question but what/who is SRD?
cwslyclgh 12-30-04, 05:36 PM	Market price is not used in item creation, the base price is--cost to create is 1/2 the base price (on most items the base price and the market are the same). The SRD is the System Resource Document... it is what WotC considers to be Open Gaming Content from thier books.
c47 12-30-04, 05:44 PM	The way our group has ruled it that the restriction is only considered a restriction if the creator is restricted by it. i.e. Only usable by elves only counted as a restriction for item creation purposes if the creator was not an elf. if you created an item that only worked for NE Clerics of GodA and you were a NE cleic of GodA then its not really a restriction for you is it? Where as if you create an item that only works in bright sunlight, then thats a restriction, as it effect all, including the creator. Now you could create an item for a party member that you could not use yourself that would be restricted to them but you could not use it. Then that would be counted as a restriction however our party is not THAT altruistic. We tend to want to be able to use the things we've created.
ClobberinTime 12-30-04, 06:10 PM	I understand home ruling it to nerf it but my definitive impression is that this meant 30% off the price to create it... Is the market price based on the lowest possible caster level, and the base price is based on the actual caster level, or is it that the market price is the base price plus the price of the masterwork longsword, adamantium full plate etc.... or is it both of the above i.e. market price = lowest level caster plus the cost of the base item. all in all I like the idea that if just effects market (read sale price, and not the creation cost) but isn't this an unofficial home rule. What do they do in living greyhawk with this??
Aracor 12-30-04, 08:06 PM	What do they do in living greyhawk with this?? Living Greyhawk comepletely removes the option, which IMHO is as it should be. ~Aracor
RPGfish 12-30-04, 08:43 PM	That is something that can be good, but can be bad. If you are switching alignment with lots of that stuff on... :surrender . The stuff is good to use as an indicator (pass it around your mercs and see who is LG without using any spells). Are there any spells that would change or remove this?
[GSV] Kirstar 12-30-04, 09:31 PM	i personally only count it if its some specific requirement . such as holy avenger for paldin, or some of the bard only instruments. anything else is munchin. IMO
Snarf 01-01-05, 03:43 AM	Yeah, I'm all for removing it, or at least leaving the cost to create unaffected. When you think about it, adding an alignment restriction is really a major benefit...if a NG Wizard wanted to create a +1 sword, wouldn't he be willing to pay more to ensure that his creation will only ever be used in the cause of good?
Kursk 01-01-05, 01:27 PM	In my game it's harder (and more expensive) to create a magic item that all can use. The narrower the userbase the cheaper it is to build. Which is why the rule was made in the 1st place.
wtfpwned 01-01-05, 06:15 PM	This option is really powerful if your starting at a high lvl, and get to create a bunch of good items for your character before you start the adventure. Not quite as good in long term, because an item you craft at lvl8 is gonna suck at lvl 15 and your gonna wanna sell it. These items have almost no resale value. To add, I do like the 'its only a restriction if the caster is restricted' but that does not prevent em from making items for the rest of the party on the cheap.
Kursk 01-01-05, 06:41 PM	Not quite as good in long term, because an item you craft at lvl8 is gonna suck at lvl 15 and your gonna wanna sell it. These items have almost no resale value. Yes, it cuts both ways. But making choices is what Role Playing is about...
Iver Gearsham 01-01-05, 10:02 PM	Having magic stuff that only works in sun light to get a 30% off just means that you make another of what ever that only works at night and your covered in munchkin town. I like it for making highly personalized equipment that I can afford to upgrade rather than toss every few lvls like boots of levitation adding Springing and striding boot powers in and then spider climbing and maby Hast/Speed after that then at Epic Telport. When I do create an item that I can personalize woe be to the foe who dares to take it from me. My mage made it his mission in life to ruin a hobgoblin nation for it. That took a long time to do but it was satisfiying.