5th-9th level Ranger Spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

5th-9th level Ranger Spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
instag8or19
07-05-05, 12:19 AM I know in the PHB 3.5 Rangers only get up to 4th level spells, but if the pc gains a wish ring could he infact wish for a higher spell casting level...like a 20th level Ranger wished to be able to cast 5th level spells...Does anyone know of what spells the ranger could cast from...Im guessing the Druids spell list? but if anyone knows about this subject please enlighten me.
SALDAR
07-05-05, 12:28 AM You can not wish for something that does not exist. There are no 5th level or higher ranger spells. There is an epic feat that grants a single spell slot of a level one higher than what you already have. So a ranger could have a 5th level spell slot but would have to fill it with a lower level or metamagiced ranger spell.
instag8or19
07-05-05, 12:41 AM You can not wish for something that does not exist. There are no 5th level or higher ranger spells. There is an epic feat that grants a single spell slot of a level one higher than what you already have. So a ranger could have a 5th level spell slot but would have to fill it with a lower level or metamagiced ranger spell.

So by taking Improved Spell capacity in the ELH an epic level Ranger could take that feat 5 times to gain the ability to cast 9th level Divine spells and having ranks in spellcraft by either wishing for it to be a class skill or by having enough cross-class ranks...could then meeting the requirements: Spellcraft 24 ranks, Knowlegde nature 24 ranks, and the ability to cast 9th level divine spells; take the Epic Spellcasting feat?
SALDAR
07-05-05, 01:29 AM I'm sorry, forgot the prerequisites. I should have checked the feat first. You have to be able to cast 9th level divine spells to gain the feat in the first place. Rangers cannot do this as there are no 5th level or higher ranger (divine) spells. So there is no way for a ranger to obtain higher level spell slots or spells beyond 4th level, even using a wish.
Zilred
07-05-05, 01:47 AM I beleive they changed the Epic Spellcasting feat to say that you must have completed the full spell progression for a class before taking spells above that class's maximum level. So a Ranger20 (or someone with the equivalent spellcasting power via a prestige class) could take Epic Spellcasting for 5th level spells.

Been a while since I've looked at Epic Rules though ...
runestar
07-05-05, 07:47 AM Technically, a ranger can cast 9th lv spells. Take 5 times improved spell capacity and the divine disciple/talontar blightlord prc. The bonus domain will add the much needed 5th-9th lv spells to their spell list. After that, you can take epic spellcasting feat.
gbnogkfs
07-05-05, 08:15 AM I'm sorry, forgot the prerequisites. I should have checked the feat first. You have to be able to cast 9th level divine spells to gain the feat in the first place. Rangers cannot do this as there are no 5th level or higher ranger (divine) spells. So there is no way for a ranger to obtain higher level spell slots or spells beyond 4th level, even using a wish.

The Improved Spell Capacity feat only needs you to have the highest level spells that are normal for a class. You can take it for the Ranger class if you are able to cast 4th level ranger spells.
If you have a 9th level ranger spell slot then, by FAQ, you can take Epic Spellcasting.

More: you can cast "9th" level rager spells using the Heighten Spell feat, however reading the FAQ it looks it is not a prerequisite for Epic Spellcasting as a Ranger.
Rulebook
07-05-05, 09:12 AM also take into consideration that you'd need to be higher than 20th to get a 9th level spell slot as a ranger, even WITH all the feats.

i cant forsee any way to have a spell slot higher than your Caster level can allow in any way. i mean there's no way in HELL a 10th caster level is going to have a 9th level spell. (yeah you forgot about the 1/2 caster level huh?)
gbnogkfs
07-05-05, 10:25 AM also take into consideration that you'd need to be higher than 20th to get a 9th level spell slot as a ranger, even WITH all the feats.

i cant forsee any way to have a spell slot higher than your Caster level can allow in any way. i mean there's no way in HELL a 10th caster level is going to have a 9th level spell. (yeah you forgot about the 1/2 caster level huh?)

there's no rule preventing a 10th caster level from possessing a 200th level slot, and being able to use it.

of course, to get (or use) Improved Spell Capacity you need 21th level, and the availability of a feat, but that's pretty all.
A straight Ranger can get ISC at levels 21, 23, 24, 26, 27 obtaining a 9th level slot at caster level 13.
tarkin
07-05-05, 11:54 AM [quote]IMPROVED SPELL CAPACITY [EPIC]
Prerequisite: Ability to cast spells of the normal maximum spell level in at least one spellcasting class.[quote]

So the ability to cast a 5th or higher Ranger spell requires epic ability.

What does a 5th or higher Ranger spell look like?

Extended 4th levels
Empowered 4th
Maximized 4th

etc. etc. etc.

Note, many Ranger 4th level spells are the equivelent of a 5th level Druid Spell anyway (Rangers however get 4th level spells AFTER a Druid would already get a 6th level spell)

I therefore see no problem with allowing an Epic feat that would grant Epic level Rangers the ability to learn any Druid spell, using the Druid level as the Ranger level.
SALDAR
07-06-05, 03:15 PM I therefore see no problem with allowing an Epic feat that would grant Epic level Rangers the ability to learn any Druid spell, using the Druid level as the Ranger level.
I do see a problem. A druid with a 10th level slot from the above feat cannot fill it with a 10th level druid spell because there is no such thing within the game. Therefore, a ranger cannot fill a 5th level slot with a 5th level ranger spell as such a spell does not exist either.

Allowing one class to access the spells on another class' spell list just because the class is limited in spell levels skews the spell system against those classes that are not so limited. The limited classes would no longer be limited. Also, allowing what tarkin suggests would allow a form of epic level spell progression, gaining access to new spell levels, not just a spell slot, and no class gains spell progression beyond 20th level. The classes that have a limited spell list do so because they are focused in other areas, not in spellcasting.
runestar
07-07-05, 01:32 AM Therefore, a ranger cannot fill a 5th level slot with a 5th level ranger spell as such a spell does not exist either.

At least not until said spells are added to their spell list. Aforementioned prcs do the same thing. Likewise, arcane disciple feat, if taken by bards, could conceivably, at epic lvs, allow them to cast 7-9 lv spells(IIRC). Someone correct me if I am wrong on this count.
Dragonsblood
07-07-05, 03:53 AM If you want a ranger with 9th level spells, make a Druid and take combat feats and use a bow or two weapons.
gbnogkfs
07-07-05, 12:26 PM At least not until said spells are added to their spell list. Aforementioned prcs do the same thing. Likewise, arcane disciple feat, if taken by bards, could conceivably, at epic lvs, allow them to cast 7-9 lv spells(IIRC). Someone correct me if I am wrong on this count.

Cool: they need Improved Spell Capacity, Extra Spell, and high wisdom... but they can do that :D
IndigoEthergaunt
07-07-05, 02:08 PM besides, if you want a ranger to have an all new 9th level spell (not a metamagic one), you may ask if you can research it as any other spellcaster, so that way, you might research a new spell or ask for one on another list, ...i think...
gbnogkfs
07-07-05, 04:30 PM besides, if you want a ranger to have an all new 9th level spell (not a metamagic one), you may ask if you can research it as any other spellcaster, so that way, you might research a new spell or ask for one on another list, ...i think...

oh, yes, of course.
RaspK FOG
07-07-05, 07:56 PM Actually, you can use such spell slots: you simply apply metamagic feats on them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
instag8or19 07-05-05, 12:19 AM	I know in the PHB 3.5 Rangers only get up to 4th level spells, but if the pc gains a wish ring could he infact wish for a higher spell casting level...like a 20th level Ranger wished to be able to cast 5th level spells...Does anyone know of what spells the ranger could cast from...Im guessing the Druids spell list? but if anyone knows about this subject please enlighten me.
SALDAR 07-05-05, 12:28 AM	You can not wish for something that does not exist. There are no 5th level or higher ranger spells. There is an epic feat that grants a single spell slot of a level one higher than what you already have. So a ranger could have a 5th level spell slot but would have to fill it with a lower level or metamagiced ranger spell.
instag8or19 07-05-05, 12:41 AM	You can not wish for something that does not exist. There are no 5th level or higher ranger spells. There is an epic feat that grants a single spell slot of a level one higher than what you already have. So a ranger could have a 5th level spell slot but would have to fill it with a lower level or metamagiced ranger spell. So by taking Improved Spell capacity in the ELH an epic level Ranger could take that feat 5 times to gain the ability to cast 9th level Divine spells and having ranks in spellcraft by either wishing for it to be a class skill or by having enough cross-class ranks...could then meeting the requirements: Spellcraft 24 ranks, Knowlegde nature 24 ranks, and the ability to cast 9th level divine spells; take the Epic Spellcasting feat?
SALDAR 07-05-05, 01:29 AM	I'm sorry, forgot the prerequisites. I should have checked the feat first. You have to be able to cast 9th level divine spells to gain the feat in the first place. Rangers cannot do this as there are no 5th level or higher ranger (divine) spells. So there is no way for a ranger to obtain higher level spell slots or spells beyond 4th level, even using a wish.
Zilred 07-05-05, 01:47 AM	I beleive they changed the Epic Spellcasting feat to say that you must have completed the full spell progression for a class before taking spells above that class's maximum level. So a Ranger20 (or someone with the equivalent spellcasting power via a prestige class) could take Epic Spellcasting for 5th level spells. Been a while since I've looked at Epic Rules though ...
runestar 07-05-05, 07:47 AM	Technically, a ranger can cast 9th lv spells. Take 5 times improved spell capacity and the divine disciple/talontar blightlord prc. The bonus domain will add the much needed 5th-9th lv spells to their spell list. After that, you can take epic spellcasting feat.
gbnogkfs 07-05-05, 08:15 AM	I'm sorry, forgot the prerequisites. I should have checked the feat first. You have to be able to cast 9th level divine spells to gain the feat in the first place. Rangers cannot do this as there are no 5th level or higher ranger (divine) spells. So there is no way for a ranger to obtain higher level spell slots or spells beyond 4th level, even using a wish. The Improved Spell Capacity feat only needs you to have the highest level spells that are normal for a class. You can take it for the Ranger class if you are able to cast 4th level ranger spells. If you have a 9th level ranger spell slot then, by FAQ, you can take Epic Spellcasting. More: you can cast "9th" level rager spells using the Heighten Spell feat, however reading the FAQ it looks it is not a prerequisite for Epic Spellcasting as a Ranger.
Rulebook 07-05-05, 09:12 AM	also take into consideration that you'd need to be higher than 20th to get a 9th level spell slot as a ranger, even WITH all the feats. i cant forsee any way to have a spell slot higher than your Caster level can allow in any way. i mean there's no way in HELL a 10th caster level is going to have a 9th level spell. (yeah you forgot about the 1/2 caster level huh?)
gbnogkfs 07-05-05, 10:25 AM	also take into consideration that you'd need to be higher than 20th to get a 9th level spell slot as a ranger, even WITH all the feats. i cant forsee any way to have a spell slot higher than your Caster level can allow in any way. i mean there's no way in HELL a 10th caster level is going to have a 9th level spell. (yeah you forgot about the 1/2 caster level huh?) there's no rule preventing a 10th caster level from possessing a 200th level slot, and being able to use it. of course, to get (or use) Improved Spell Capacity you need 21th level, and the availability of a feat, but that's pretty all. A straight Ranger can get ISC at levels 21, 23, 24, 26, 27 obtaining a 9th level slot at caster level 13.
tarkin 07-05-05, 11:54 AM	[quote]IMPROVED SPELL CAPACITY [EPIC] Prerequisite: Ability to cast spells of the normal maximum spell level in at least one spellcasting class.[quote] So the ability to cast a 5th or higher Ranger spell requires epic ability. What does a 5th or higher Ranger spell look like? Extended 4th levels Empowered 4th Maximized 4th etc. etc. etc. Note, many Ranger 4th level spells are the equivelent of a 5th level Druid Spell anyway (Rangers however get 4th level spells AFTER a Druid would already get a 6th level spell) I therefore see no problem with allowing an Epic feat that would grant Epic level Rangers the ability to learn any Druid spell, using the Druid level as the Ranger level.
SALDAR 07-06-05, 03:15 PM	I therefore see no problem with allowing an Epic feat that would grant Epic level Rangers the ability to learn any Druid spell, using the Druid level as the Ranger level. I do see a problem. A druid with a 10th level slot from the above feat cannot fill it with a 10th level druid spell because there is no such thing within the game. Therefore, a ranger cannot fill a 5th level slot with a 5th level ranger spell as such a spell does not exist either. Allowing one class to access the spells on another class' spell list just because the class is limited in spell levels skews the spell system against those classes that are not so limited. The limited classes would no longer be limited. Also, allowing what tarkin suggests would allow a form of epic level spell progression, gaining access to new spell levels, not just a spell slot, and no class gains spell progression beyond 20th level. The classes that have a limited spell list do so because they are focused in other areas, not in spellcasting.
runestar 07-07-05, 01:32 AM	Therefore, a ranger cannot fill a 5th level slot with a 5th level ranger spell as such a spell does not exist either. At least not until said spells are added to their spell list. Aforementioned prcs do the same thing. Likewise, arcane disciple feat, if taken by bards, could conceivably, at epic lvs, allow them to cast 7-9 lv spells(IIRC). Someone correct me if I am wrong on this count.
Dragonsblood 07-07-05, 03:53 AM	If you want a ranger with 9th level spells, make a Druid and take combat feats and use a bow or two weapons.
gbnogkfs 07-07-05, 12:26 PM	At least not until said spells are added to their spell list. Aforementioned prcs do the same thing. Likewise, arcane disciple feat, if taken by bards, could conceivably, at epic lvs, allow them to cast 7-9 lv spells(IIRC). Someone correct me if I am wrong on this count. Cool: they need Improved Spell Capacity, Extra Spell, and high wisdom... but they can do that :D
IndigoEthergaunt 07-07-05, 02:08 PM	besides, if you want a ranger to have an all new 9th level spell (not a metamagic one), you may ask if you can research it as any other spellcaster, so that way, you might research a new spell or ask for one on another list, ...i think...
gbnogkfs 07-07-05, 04:30 PM	besides, if you want a ranger to have an all new 9th level spell (not a metamagic one), you may ask if you can research it as any other spellcaster, so that way, you might research a new spell or ask for one on another list, ...i think... oh, yes, of course.
RaspK FOG 07-07-05, 07:56 PM	Actually, you can use such spell slots: you simply apply metamagic feats on them.