8 Spells in 1 round. Is this Sorcerer Nuke spell combo broken? [Archive] - Wizards Community

8 Spells in 1 round. Is this Sorcerer Nuke spell combo broken? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RavingDork
01-09-07, 10:38 AM Quickened Spell (any) + Arcane Fusion + Celerity + Arcane Fusion = 8 spells in one round!

Cast a Quickened spell of your choice (doesn't matter how), use Arcane Fusion to cast a 1st-level spell and a 4th-level spell, declare the end of your turn. Before anyone else can act (or wait to interrupt another spellcaster), cast Celerity to gain another Standard Action, which you then use to repeat Arcane Fusion.

Celerity using your next round's swift action doesn't make any difference since you skip your next turn due to the dazed effect anyways. It is one heck of a Sorcerer nuke.

This combo works best with Elven Sorcerers/Abjurant Champions or with that feat from Complete Mage (can't remember the name) that allows sorcerers to use metamagic without increased casting time.
Red_Rabbit
01-09-07, 11:42 AM What book is Celerity in?

The Rabbit
RavingDork
01-09-07, 11:50 AM What book is Celerity in?

The Rabbit

Player's Handbook II I believe.

It is a 4th-level immediate action spell that grants you a Standard Action "right now." In return, as soon as you finish taking your extra Standard Action, you are dazed for 1 round (effectively skipping your next real turn).

Using my combo above, a sorcerer could fire off 8 spells every other round (effectively 4 spells each round), of which only 5 are truly contributing to NUKAGE...

...at least until he runs out of spell slots.

EDIT: Even though the sorcerer fires off 8 spells, thanks to the wording of Arcane Fusion, only 4 spell slots are used up as part of this combo.
wonlee76
01-09-07, 12:41 PM Isn't this more like using 4 spells to get 5 "real spells" in a round?

quicken (any) + arcane fusion (2 spells limited by level) + Celerity (to give you an extra standard action) + arcane fusion (2 more spells limited by level).

Total effective spells used on yourself or bad guys = 5 by my count presuming you have a DM that houserules a sorceror could use quicken metamagic or houseruled that a sorceror could take that alternate varient in the PHB II.
Salla
01-09-07, 01:14 PM Remember the sorcerer's restriction on Metamagic, specifically that they can't use Quicken Spell ... unless, of course, they take the Metamagic Master substitution from PHBII.
Osedox
01-09-07, 01:17 PM My count is six:
one quickened+
two from arcane fusion+
celerity+
two more from arcane fusion=
six
Please tell me where I messed up (are you counting Arcane Fusion as 3 spells?). BB:AA has already poineered this trick on the CharOp boards and far surpassed this with his capabilities.
Firestar27
01-09-07, 01:28 PM as far as i know, you can't cast more than 1 spell in your turn unless the effect actually says to do so. At least with using haste. I don't know about with situations like this. My source is from the "reads bad plays good" article.
tarkin
01-09-07, 01:58 PM The only thing I found doubtfull was the use of Quicken (Swift Action) in the same round you cast Celerity (Swift Action).

You also left out the real "I want to do lots of things in one round bit", which is: Intelligent magic items.

They each get their own action for use only with the powers they get for being intelligent.
RavingDork
01-09-07, 03:01 PM Are you counting Arcane Fusion as 3 spells?

Yes. It sounds cooler to say eight.

The only thing I found doubtfull was the use of Quicken (Swift Action) in the same round you cast Celerity (Swift Action).

You also left out the real "I want to do lots of things in one round bit", which is: Intelligent magic items.

They each get their own action for use only with the powers they get for being intelligent.

You use the swift action for your CURRENT turn. The immediate action for Celerity uses up the swift/immediate action you would have had for your NEXT turn (which you sepnd in a daze anyways).
ninja1
01-09-07, 03:15 PM Hi RavingDork,

While it might sound cooler, it certainly made the thread very confusing to most.

When you wrote "Quickened Spell (any)", couldn't you have Quickened another Arcane Fusion for more spellcasting goodness?...

Just to clarify, While there are 8 spells being cast, there are only 2 offensive 1st level spells, and 2 offensive 4th level spells, and the 1 quickened offensive spell.

So the 5 offensive spells require an additional 1 (celerity) and 2 (arcane fusions) for a total of 8 spells cast.

If the quickened spell could be another fusion... would it be 11 spells cast but only 7 of them offensive?

Edit: anyone know of something immune to daze?
tarkin
01-09-07, 03:16 PM I think Swift actions restart at the begining of each round, not the end of your turn.

That is, if three people go

Monster A, Init 20
Wizard, Init 10
Monster B, Init 5

Then the would do Quicken on his turn, then his regular action, but would not be able to do your celerity until after Monster B went.
TheCobra
01-09-07, 03:26 PM Edit: anyone know of something immune to daze?

Yes, it's extremely easy to get. Just use limited wish to get favor of the martyr (Spell Compendium). Then go to town with greater arcane fusion and celerity. You get a seventh-level spell and another standard action, or a first-level spell and two standard actions. Keep on casting until you run out of spell slots.

This combo is pretty obvious. Most DMs aren't going to allow it, though.

By the way, celerity is immediate action, not a swift action. So you can cast a swift spell and normal spell, then use it after your turn ends (using up your swift action during your next turn).
Tyler Do'Urden
01-09-07, 04:21 PM From this page (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm)...You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn).

So you can use a swift action on your turn, then use an immediate action after your turn, and that will consume your swift action for the next turn.

Tell me about arcane fusion; does it have to be a 1st-level and a 4th-level or can it be 1st-level and any level up to 4th? 'Cause limiting it to those specific levels greatly limits the utility of going nova like this.
Animae_Draconum
01-09-07, 04:32 PM For those of us that think 8 spells in a round and actually being affected by the daze from celerity is just sub-par...

Here's a real arcane nova thread.

ARCANE NOVA (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=747279)

Nice try RavingDork but Tleilaxu_Ghola beat you to it with greater effect over a month ago.

A_D
Bladegeek
01-10-07, 10:31 AM 8 Spells in 1 round. Is this Sorcerer Nuke spell combo broken?

Broken? No. Creative? Yes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RavingDork 01-09-07, 10:38 AM	Quickened Spell (any) + Arcane Fusion + Celerity + Arcane Fusion = 8 spells in one round! Cast a Quickened spell of your choice (doesn't matter how), use Arcane Fusion to cast a 1st-level spell and a 4th-level spell, declare the end of your turn. Before anyone else can act (or wait to interrupt another spellcaster), cast Celerity to gain another Standard Action, which you then use to repeat Arcane Fusion. Celerity using your next round's swift action doesn't make any difference since you skip your next turn due to the dazed effect anyways. It is one heck of a Sorcerer nuke. This combo works best with Elven Sorcerers/Abjurant Champions or with that feat from Complete Mage (can't remember the name) that allows sorcerers to use metamagic without increased casting time.
Red_Rabbit 01-09-07, 11:42 AM	What book is Celerity in? The Rabbit
RavingDork 01-09-07, 11:50 AM	What book is Celerity in? The Rabbit Player's Handbook II I believe. It is a 4th-level immediate action spell that grants you a Standard Action "right now." In return, as soon as you finish taking your extra Standard Action, you are dazed for 1 round (effectively skipping your next real turn). Using my combo above, a sorcerer could fire off 8 spells every other round (effectively 4 spells each round), of which only 5 are truly contributing to NUKAGE... ...at least until he runs out of spell slots. EDIT: Even though the sorcerer fires off 8 spells, thanks to the wording of Arcane Fusion, only 4 spell slots are used up as part of this combo.
wonlee76 01-09-07, 12:41 PM	Isn't this more like using 4 spells to get 5 "real spells" in a round? quicken (any) + arcane fusion (2 spells limited by level) + Celerity (to give you an extra standard action) + arcane fusion (2 more spells limited by level). Total effective spells used on yourself or bad guys = 5 by my count presuming you have a DM that houserules a sorceror could use quicken metamagic or houseruled that a sorceror could take that alternate varient in the PHB II.
Salla 01-09-07, 01:14 PM	Remember the sorcerer's restriction on Metamagic, specifically that they can't use Quicken Spell ... unless, of course, they take the Metamagic Master substitution from PHBII.
Osedox 01-09-07, 01:17 PM	My count is six: one quickened+ two from arcane fusion+ celerity+ two more from arcane fusion= six Please tell me where I messed up (are you counting Arcane Fusion as 3 spells?). BB:AA has already poineered this trick on the CharOp boards and far surpassed this with his capabilities.
Firestar27 01-09-07, 01:28 PM	as far as i know, you can't cast more than 1 spell in your turn unless the effect actually says to do so. At least with using haste. I don't know about with situations like this. My source is from the "reads bad plays good" article.
tarkin 01-09-07, 01:58 PM	The only thing I found doubtfull was the use of Quicken (Swift Action) in the same round you cast Celerity (Swift Action). You also left out the real "I want to do lots of things in one round bit", which is: Intelligent magic items. They each get their own action for use only with the powers they get for being intelligent.
RavingDork 01-09-07, 03:01 PM	Are you counting Arcane Fusion as 3 spells? Yes. It sounds cooler to say eight. The only thing I found doubtfull was the use of Quicken (Swift Action) in the same round you cast Celerity (Swift Action). You also left out the real "I want to do lots of things in one round bit", which is: Intelligent magic items. They each get their own action for use only with the powers they get for being intelligent. You use the swift action for your CURRENT turn. The immediate action for Celerity uses up the swift/immediate action you would have had for your NEXT turn (which you sepnd in a daze anyways).
ninja1 01-09-07, 03:15 PM	Hi RavingDork, While it might sound cooler, it certainly made the thread very confusing to most. When you wrote "Quickened Spell (any)", couldn't you have Quickened another Arcane Fusion for more spellcasting goodness?... Just to clarify, While there are 8 spells being cast, there are only 2 offensive 1st level spells, and 2 offensive 4th level spells, and the 1 quickened offensive spell. So the 5 offensive spells require an additional 1 (celerity) and 2 (arcane fusions) for a total of 8 spells cast. If the quickened spell could be another fusion... would it be 11 spells cast but only 7 of them offensive? Edit: anyone know of something immune to daze?
tarkin 01-09-07, 03:16 PM	I think Swift actions restart at the begining of each round, not the end of your turn. That is, if three people go Monster A, Init 20 Wizard, Init 10 Monster B, Init 5 Then the would do Quicken on his turn, then his regular action, but would not be able to do your celerity until after Monster B went.
TheCobra 01-09-07, 03:26 PM	Edit: anyone know of something immune to daze? Yes, it's extremely easy to get. Just use limited wish to get favor of the martyr (Spell Compendium). Then go to town with greater arcane fusion and celerity. You get a seventh-level spell and another standard action, or a first-level spell and two standard actions. Keep on casting until you run out of spell slots. This combo is pretty obvious. Most DMs aren't going to allow it, though. By the way, celerity is immediate action, not a swift action. So you can cast a swift spell and normal spell, then use it after your turn ends (using up your swift action during your next turn).
Tyler Do'Urden 01-09-07, 04:21 PM	From this page (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm)...You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). So you can use a swift action on your turn, then use an immediate action after your turn, and that will consume your swift action for the next turn. Tell me about arcane fusion; does it have to be a 1st-level and a 4th-level or can it be 1st-level and any level up to 4th? 'Cause limiting it to those specific levels greatly limits the utility of going nova like this.
Animae_Draconum 01-09-07, 04:32 PM	For those of us that think 8 spells in a round and actually being affected by the daze from celerity is just sub-par... Here's a real arcane nova thread. ARCANE NOVA (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=747279) Nice try RavingDork but Tleilaxu_Ghola beat you to it with greater effect over a month ago. A_D
Bladegeek 01-10-07, 10:31 AM	8 Spells in 1 round. Is this Sorcerer Nuke spell combo broken? Broken? No. Creative? Yes.