*Intensified* awaken? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kiri Sittori
07-10-05, 09:46 PM Hi... just wanted to know if there really is a way to Awaken an animal such that it *starts* with 36 intelligence, as someone just claimed; and if so, where can I find reference to such magic?

And "in that player's campaign" is not sufficient for this, please, as the individual claiming this asserts that I "must not have the right books" and therefore cannot criticise his L34 squirrel's 64 Int. o.o;
Norhg
07-10-05, 09:50 PM All in the SRD. Look for "epic feats" and "Spells A-randomletter".
Intensify doubles and maximises the random effects of a spell.
In this case 3d6 becomes 36. (Which coincidently is not 64. But who cares?)
Kiri Sittori
07-10-05, 09:52 PM All in the SRD. Look for "epic feats" and "Spells A-randomletter".
Intensify doubles and maximises the random effects of a spell.
In this case 3d6 becomes 36. (Which coincidently is not 64. But who cares?)

Ok, so this kid's character presupposes *another* epic character to start with. Nah, he can at least prove 63 (by somehow becoming half-fiend during development.)
Jaid
07-10-05, 11:14 PM it's a level 34 squirrel.

from regular stat increases alone, that's +8. probably has inherent +5.

do those epic feats that give +1 to a stat still exist? 'cause he probably has 4 epic feats for general purpose use, and possibly more to boost his int if he has the right class.

so that's another 17 right there, plus potential class bonus epic feats giving up to 7 more, which would be 24.

that's 60 right there... hmmm, am i missing anything?

and, am i off my rocker talking about epic stat-boosting feats?

maybe he has levels in awakened squirrel paragon =P
tarkin
07-11-05, 12:03 PM No, that does not work.

When you Maximze a Summon spell, it does not give you creatures with max hit points that do max damage everytime they hit who always rolls a 20.

Awaken makes things animate, that is all. Everything else is a random result of becoming animate, not a direct result of the spell.

I.E. The spell does not provide the creature with 3d6 int, anymore than the summoning of the creature provides it with 3d6 int.

Maximize, Intensified, etc. all work only on direct actions of the spell, not indirect.
Kiri Sittori
07-11-05, 12:26 PM it's a level 34 squirrel.

from regular stat increases alone, that's +8. probably has inherent +5.

do those epic feats that give +1 to a stat still exist? 'cause he probably has 4 epic feats for general purpose use, and possibly more to boost his int if he has the right class.

so that's another 17 right there, plus potential class bonus epic feats giving up to 7 more, which would be 24.

that's 60 right there... hmmm, am i missing anything?

and, am i off my rocker talking about epic stat-boosting feats?

maybe he has levels in awakened squirrel paragon =P

No, he was saying (as Tarkin has disproven) this:

-Intensify Spell + Awaken = 36;
-Nar Fiendbond (granting half-fiend type) = 40;
-+5 inherent = 45;
-Headband of Intellect +12 = 57;
-Only seven stat bumps to get 64.

And the intensified awaken and fiendbond were both done by a single drow warlock, apparently... :rolleyes:
Darken
07-11-05, 04:35 PM Actually, I would argue that all random numbers listed in Awaken is actually part of the Awaken spell's effect.

Note that things you cannot maximize/empower/intensify (for example, a caster level check in Dispel magic, a d% check on Reincarnate, etc) are not part of the spell's effects; they are mechanic issues of the game/metagame. However, on Awaken, giving an ability scores or bonuses are indeed part of the spell's effects. It specifies a certain amount to change the ability score to (Int) or a bonus to an ability score (Cha); these amounts are not a "standard quality applied to creatures to make them smarter" or a "mechanic issue that deals with animals turn magic beast" but rather specifications of the spells.

Refer to the Summon Monster example: Maximize will certainly not give you full HP, since HP is not a value that is derived from the spell; however, if you elect to summon 1d4+1 lower level creatures, you will most certainly summon 5 creatures instead with Maximize. That is because the spell's effect is directly incorporated into the wording, and this is the same thing with Awaken. Applying the same logic, you can only say that Awakened Animals cannot maximize their new HP rolls from their bonus HD (which is correct).
Alienfreak
07-11-05, 05:43 PM A simple maximized empowered awaken also gives you

18 + 3d6/2 Int ...

Gives you an average of 28 Int.

Mage Animal anyone?
green_yawgmoth
07-11-05, 06:29 PM Actually, I would argue that all random numbers listed in Awaken is actually part of the Awaken spell's effect.

Note that things you cannot maximize/empower/intensify (for example, a caster level check in Dispel magic, a d% check on Reincarnate, etc) are not part of the spell's effects; they are mechanic issues of the game/metagame. However, on Awaken, giving an ability scores or bonuses are indeed part of the spell's effects. It specifies a certain amount to change the ability score to (Int) or a bonus to an ability score (Cha); these amounts are not a "standard quality applied to creatures to make them smarter" or a "mechanic issue that deals with animals turn magic beast" but rather specifications of the spells.

Refer to the Summon Monster example: Maximize will certainly not give you full HP, since HP is not a value that is derived from the spell; however, if you elect to summon 1d4+1 lower level creatures, you will most certainly summon 5 creatures instead with Maximize. That is because the spell's effect is directly incorporated into the wording, and this is the same thing with Awaken. Applying the same logic, you can only say that Awakened Animals cannot maximize their new HP rolls from their bonus HD (which is correct).
This was the agreed logic used some time ago in the monsters forum. As for a 64 int:

36 (base from intensified awaken) +4 (half fiend; nar fiendbond spell) +12 (headband of epic intellect) +5 (tome of int) +7 from levelling up (all but one put into int, as wizards are wont to do).

Mage Animal anyone?
Maybe, just maybe... (http://www.3edb.com/viewCharacter.asp?cid=9770) ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kiri Sittori 07-10-05, 09:46 PM	Hi... just wanted to know if there really is a way to Awaken an animal such that it starts with 36 intelligence, as someone just claimed; and if so, where can I find reference to such magic? And "in that player's campaign" is not sufficient for this, please, as the individual claiming this asserts that I "must not have the right books" and therefore cannot criticise his L34 squirrel's 64 Int. o.o;
Norhg 07-10-05, 09:50 PM	All in the SRD. Look for "epic feats" and "Spells A-randomletter". Intensify doubles and maximises the random effects of a spell. In this case 3d6 becomes 36. (Which coincidently is not 64. But who cares?)
Kiri Sittori 07-10-05, 09:52 PM	All in the SRD. Look for "epic feats" and "Spells A-randomletter". Intensify doubles and maximises the random effects of a spell. In this case 3d6 becomes 36. (Which coincidently is not 64. But who cares?) Ok, so this kid's character presupposes another epic character to start with. Nah, he can at least prove 63 (by somehow becoming half-fiend during development.)
Jaid 07-10-05, 11:14 PM	it's a level 34 squirrel. from regular stat increases alone, that's +8. probably has inherent +5. do those epic feats that give +1 to a stat still exist? 'cause he probably has 4 epic feats for general purpose use, and possibly more to boost his int if he has the right class. so that's another 17 right there, plus potential class bonus epic feats giving up to 7 more, which would be 24. that's 60 right there... hmmm, am i missing anything? and, am i off my rocker talking about epic stat-boosting feats? maybe he has levels in awakened squirrel paragon =P
tarkin 07-11-05, 12:03 PM	No, that does not work. When you Maximze a Summon spell, it does not give you creatures with max hit points that do max damage everytime they hit who always rolls a 20. Awaken makes things animate, that is all. Everything else is a random result of becoming animate, not a direct result of the spell. I.E. The spell does not provide the creature with 3d6 int, anymore than the summoning of the creature provides it with 3d6 int. Maximize, Intensified, etc. all work only on direct actions of the spell, not indirect.
Kiri Sittori 07-11-05, 12:26 PM	it's a level 34 squirrel. from regular stat increases alone, that's +8. probably has inherent +5. do those epic feats that give +1 to a stat still exist? 'cause he probably has 4 epic feats for general purpose use, and possibly more to boost his int if he has the right class. so that's another 17 right there, plus potential class bonus epic feats giving up to 7 more, which would be 24. that's 60 right there... hmmm, am i missing anything? and, am i off my rocker talking about epic stat-boosting feats? maybe he has levels in awakened squirrel paragon =P No, he was saying (as Tarkin has disproven) this: -Intensify Spell + Awaken = 36; -Nar Fiendbond (granting half-fiend type) = 40; -+5 inherent = 45; -Headband of Intellect +12 = 57; -Only seven stat bumps to get 64. And the intensified awaken and fiendbond were both done by a single drow warlock, apparently... :rolleyes:
Darken 07-11-05, 04:35 PM	Actually, I would argue that all random numbers listed in Awaken is actually part of the Awaken spell's effect. Note that things you cannot maximize/empower/intensify (for example, a caster level check in Dispel magic, a d% check on Reincarnate, etc) are not part of the spell's effects; they are mechanic issues of the game/metagame. However, on Awaken, giving an ability scores or bonuses are indeed part of the spell's effects. It specifies a certain amount to change the ability score to (Int) or a bonus to an ability score (Cha); these amounts are not a "standard quality applied to creatures to make them smarter" or a "mechanic issue that deals with animals turn magic beast" but rather specifications of the spells. Refer to the Summon Monster example: Maximize will certainly not give you full HP, since HP is not a value that is derived from the spell; however, if you elect to summon 1d4+1 lower level creatures, you will most certainly summon 5 creatures instead with Maximize. That is because the spell's effect is directly incorporated into the wording, and this is the same thing with Awaken. Applying the same logic, you can only say that Awakened Animals cannot maximize their new HP rolls from their bonus HD (which is correct).
Alienfreak 07-11-05, 05:43 PM	A simple maximized empowered awaken also gives you 18 + 3d6/2 Int ... Gives you an average of 28 Int. Mage Animal anyone?
green_yawgmoth 07-11-05, 06:29 PM	Actually, I would argue that all random numbers listed in Awaken is actually part of the Awaken spell's effect. Note that things you cannot maximize/empower/intensify (for example, a caster level check in Dispel magic, a d% check on Reincarnate, etc) are not part of the spell's effects; they are mechanic issues of the game/metagame. However, on Awaken, giving an ability scores or bonuses are indeed part of the spell's effects. It specifies a certain amount to change the ability score to (Int) or a bonus to an ability score (Cha); these amounts are not a "standard quality applied to creatures to make them smarter" or a "mechanic issue that deals with animals turn magic beast" but rather specifications of the spells. Refer to the Summon Monster example: Maximize will certainly not give you full HP, since HP is not a value that is derived from the spell; however, if you elect to summon 1d4+1 lower level creatures, you will most certainly summon 5 creatures instead with Maximize. That is because the spell's effect is directly incorporated into the wording, and this is the same thing with Awaken. Applying the same logic, you can only say that Awakened Animals cannot maximize their new HP rolls from their bonus HD (which is correct). This was the agreed logic used some time ago in the monsters forum. As for a 64 int: 36 (base from intensified awaken) +4 (half fiend; nar fiendbond spell) +12 (headband of epic intellect) +5 (tome of int) +7 from levelling up (all but one put into int, as wizards are wont to do). Mage Animal anyone? Maybe, just maybe... (http://www.3edb.com/viewCharacter.asp?cid=9770) ;) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif