Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Beamup 04-22-04, 05:53 PM	There are many issues that aren't made clear by the writeup. 1. Can you still use this if Evocation or Conjuration (as appropriate) is a forbidden school? - Pretty sure the answer is yes, but I might as well mention it. 2. Does, for example, duplicating contingency with greater shadow evocation work automatically, or does it require a saving throw (more generally, spells targeted on the caster or a party member that usually don't require a save)? - Seems like it would require a Will save, but you could always voluntarily fail it. So this is mostly moot. 3. What about costly material components/focuses? Are they still required? - The spell descriptions don't say they are (while, for example, wish, limited wish, miracle and the like do), so I'd have to think no... allowing such things as Forcecage without the ruby dust, albeit as an 8th-level spell allowing a Will save. 4. If you shadow a spell that doesn't usually allow SR, does it now allow it? - The header block says SR: Yes, but the text says it "allows any save (or spell resistance) that the spell being simulated does" so it seems like either it duplicates the other spell's SR properties or you roll SR for the shadow spell AND for the simulated. These questions have recently become of interest to me because I just started a Diviner (will become Wizard5/MotAO2/Loremaster10/Archmage3, if anyone cares) with Evocation as forbidden, and I've been thinking about how well I can use the shadow evocation spells to get around that.
smrtgmp 04-22-04, 07:20 PM	Wow, those are some good questions. I dont have anything official, but I would rule as follows: 1)Yes. This is one of the main purpses of these spells, other than giving sorcerers some much needed flexability. 2)If your DM allowed you to use this to mimic contingency (some wouldnt, but I probably would) I dont think you would need a save, since contingency doesnt require one. 3)Since it doesnt mention material components anywhere in the descriptive text, I would say no, you dont need them. BTW, the will save is just to realize its a shadow spell. It would still have a 60% chance of containing them on a succesful save. 4)If you duplicated a conjuration spell that didnt allow SR, I would rule that the shadow version bypassed it as well. I'm not 100% sure on this one, so you should probably await further feedback. Hope that helps Gmpy
Bloodtide_the_Red 04-24-04, 03:05 AM	1.Yes. The spells are Illusion spells, no matter what they 'fake quasi-do'. 2.IMO, this would not work. Contingency has a range of personal and effects you. You know it's an illusion, as you did cast the spell. So you in effect, automaticaly disbelive it. I guess some DM's could say they a)Work automaticaly because even though you know it's an illusion, you can pretend it's realy so it will effect you or b)You need to make the Will save to 'fool yourself'. 3.You need none of the real spells components, as you are after all not realy casting the real spell. 4.No matter what spell you make a quasi-real shadow illusion from...it's still a Illusion[Shadow] spell. So SR will always apply, no matter what spell you 'fake' with it. BT
smrtgmp 04-24-04, 05:09 AM	BT-Keep in mind that shadow spells arent exactly fake. They are quasi real. Thats why people still take partial damage even if they disbelieve them.
Bloodtide_the_Red 04-24-04, 01:22 PM	.............BT-Keep in mind that shadow spells arent exactly fake. They are quasi real. Thats why people still take partial damage even if they disbelieve them............... And I though I said 'quasi real/fake' enough in the post. BT