*Student's Boon* [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BlaineTog
10-24-03, 09:44 PM Student's Boon
Divination
Level: Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: S, M, F, XP (see description)
Casting Time: 1 sec/page
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Instantaneous

An over-worked student bard was up late studying one night when, in a flash of inspiration, she discovered a method of osmosizing the information in a mundane book magically. She spent more time tweaking it and was able to adapt it to a Sorcerer/Wizard spell for her Sor/Wiz friends.

This spell allows the caster to permenately learn all the information in any mundane book, flyer, or other form of writing storage. The caster can reference this information like an encyclopedia as a free action and never forgets it. The casting time is either one 8.5x11 inch page or 500 words per second. Once the incantation is complete, the information is considered mundane and can only be lost by a lesser wish, wish, or miracle spell, or divine intervention. If the book could offer a rank in a skill (DMs discretion), then an XP cost is inflicted, 50 for a rank in class skill and 100 for a rank in a non-class skill (Note: "Knowlegde" ranks are free of XP costs). If the book details a cetain type of creature, then a +1 bonus is applied to attack, damage, and Track rolls against that specific type of creature; this costs 100 XP per creature type (Note: The character also learns certain minor specials about the creature. For instance: "Fire is the best thing to use against Trolls.). Maps learned in this way allow the character to travel to places on the map (as long as the map itself was complete and correct).
Material Component: A good cup of coffee or tea costing at least 2gp.
Focus: The book to be osmosized.
Special: The caster must be physically able to read the book (ie there must be sufficient light), and anything which could distract the caster causes a standard Cocnnetration check or the spell fails.

So, whatcha thinK? Did I miss something? Any loopholes? Too powerful/weak? Thanks for your input, in advance. :tiphat:
Seeker95
10-24-03, 10:27 PM As far as flavor is concerned, I like the spell. As for mechanics, I do not.

With a simple 1st level spell, you effectively grant an unlimited number of favored enemies to every bard, wizard and sorcerer, so long as they can find a book on the subject. It further grants an unlimited number of no-skill-points-required skills. In both cases, the experience point cost will only prevent it from being abused at lower levels.

I am not suggesting to get rid of the spell, but rather to create a different set of mechanics. Unfortunately, while I can share that I am uncomfortable with the current mechanics, I cannot think of a replacement set.
ikkonoishi
10-24-03, 10:34 PM Make it so that the information is known as dry facts and the character gains no bonus from it.

It would be good for a campain spell such as if you had to go and sneak some important information out of a library.
BlaineTog
10-24-03, 10:53 PM Yeah, i kinda agree. I was going for a spell that gives flavor and a little pit of a bonus (so that it's not a waste of a spell in the case of Bards and sorcerers who have limited spells).

Hmm... mabye scrap the skill points, favored ememie,s etc, but still allow bare info and Knowlegde points to be gained (with the XP penalty). perhaps increase the XP penatly to 100 for Class skills and 200 for non-class skills.

This still seems a little off, though. I'd also really rather not increase the spell level (accept for the bard, perhaps) becuase it doesn't make role-play sense to be much higher...
Heron_Marked_Blade
10-24-03, 11:15 PM As I understand Osmosis as it applies to absorbing knowledge, it's usually something students wish for the night before a big test. In that case, the effect is clearly related to Knowledge skills.

A couple of suggestions:

- Limit the spell's duration to 24 hours (or 12 hours if you think 24 hours is too long). Your knowledge gained through Osmosis will fade over time; consider it a short-term memory enhancer.

- I don't think it would be broken to grant a +2 bonus to the appropriate Knowledge skills (whatever Knowledge the book/s dealt with) for the duration of the spell. I'd limit the number of skills that can be affected, probably to your INT mod + 1.

- I'd raise the casting time to 1 round/Knowledge skill.

I think 1st level is appropriate for a spell of this nature.
BlaineTog
10-25-03, 03:03 AM Thanks for your suggestion. Here's the re-work. I'ts mostly what you said, but I'm gonna keep the permenant part for the general information gained, i think (since this aspect would not have any bearing on game mechanics and would bepurely for Role-playing purposes. Plus, carrying around a perfect copy of information for any length of time would leave at least SOME remnants.).

Student's Boon , V 1.5
Divination
Level: Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: S, M, F
Casting Time: Special (see text)
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 2 hours/level, Special (See Text)

An over-worked student bard was up late studying one night when, in a flash of inspiration, she discovered a method of osmosizing the information in a mundane book magically. She passed her test the next morning with flying colors, and even though the particulars of the book faded, she kept a little of the knowledge.

This spell allows the caster to gain a temporary bonus to Knowledge skills from books. Depending on the book, this bonus can range from +1 to +10. After the duration is up, the bonus is lost, although vestiges of the information remain lodged in the head of the caster (Note: releying on this information can be dangerous, as vital details may be lost). The spell can be cast on the same book again for the same bonus later, but it's effects do not stack. Any bonus gained in this way may equal, but not exceed, the caster's Inteligence modifier. This spell may be used on pieces of writing that do not convey a bonus (of any kind), in which case the caster remembers the information perfectly for 1d8 days. During this period, the character may create a perfect copy of the original, gaining a +5 to forge a copy (and only a copy. If any changes are made in the document, they could stand out stand out and reduce the bonus to +2), although no check is necessary if they they arn't trying to pass it off as the original (eg they character wants to make a copy of a map for her own use).
Material Component: A good cup of coffee or tea costing at least 2gp.
Focus: The book to be osmosized. A book which gives a bonus costs no less than it's (bonus squared)*20gp. Availability is based on town size (DM's discretion)
Special: The caster must be physically able to read the book (ie there must be sufficient light), and anything which could distract the caster causes a standard Cocnnetration check or the spell fails.

How's this look? More/less logical? I'm not quite sure about the price of the books. I'm kinda basing it off the cost of a standard spellbook. Thanks again for your help!
RabidWeasel
10-25-03, 05:08 AM This looks good! Quite a useful spell, restricted by the necessity for an expensive focus. 2000 gp for +10 to a skill seems fair given that it has to be a knowledge skill.
Israfel666
10-25-03, 11:16 AM I say it should last 1 day/level. After all, the first who used this spell was a student (-> low-level caster) who needed the knowledge for the following day. Also, the change wouldn't be overpowering IMO.
BlaineTog
10-25-03, 03:41 PM Yeah, I see your point. So here's the chnages:

Duration: 1day/level, Special (See text)

Plus, I'm thinking about making it a cantrip for Wiz/Sor. It kinda feels more like that level, but I'm not quite sure. Does that sound too low? It would mean that they can't cast it as often, as well.
Seeker95
10-25-03, 05:10 PM I agree that it should be a cantrip by design...

You cannot cast 1st elvel spells until you have finished your studies, and this spell would have been designed to allow you to finish your studies!

However, as a cantrip, I would treat the spell as Cram with a 24-hour flat duration. Then make a higher level version that provides longer term knowledge retention.
taltamir
12-10-04, 05:17 PM Well, there are already books that give you bonuses to skills, and they dont have all that costs you mentioned, like XP. Its not the spell that allows infiniate knowledge skills that way, but the actual existance of such knowledge books that does so. They are also rare, and can only bestow their bonus on a person once. If you don't like them, cut them from the campaign, rather then cutting out this spell.

All this spell does (or should do) is make reading those books more expedient. (they usually require you study the book for X hours over X days).

Here is my suggestion. The spell copies the information in the book to your mind. However you need to actually go over it in your mind to absorb it. absoption is done through meditating on it, and is twice as expedient as it would be by simply reading it. So if you found a book that grants you a +1 to knowledge of so and so if you read it over a period of a week, then this will make it take 3.5 days to learn it instead.

Making a limitation on the page size is useless without limiting how many pages. Otherwise you can just bind 10,000 pages together and call it a book.
As such I would recommend the following per int bonus:
15 pages of writing.
2 pages of spells (remember spells take a page per level).
2 page sized maps.
1 page sized detailed drawing.
And you can only reproduce what it is you have in your mind if you actually have the skills needed to do so (so you can make a scroll from a spell stored that way, if you have the feat, scribe it to a book, if you know how to, draw, if you make a successful profession: drawing check. Unsuccessful checks result in what seems to be obvious copies. Basically, it would be the SAME as if you tried to copy the original, maybe with a bonus on the roll, like a +2, for having it in your mind. That bonus could also be determined based on how many days its been since you "learned" it)

Also, it does not trigger magic in the books. So if the book is a tome of +whatever reading it in this manner does not give you any bonus. And if its a tome enchanted with cursing the reader, you dont get that either.
To complement it, I would suggest a "block" spell for it. So that malicious, or benevolent books that bestow actual MAGIC on one reader wouldnt be read this way to circumvent the magic.

If taking a test over the material, you can try to quickly "browse" the information of the book in your mind, looking for certain facts. make this a full round action, that isnt gaurenteed to work (make a roll to see if you succed).

Now, how long does it last? I would think it would be one of two things.
1. the spell maintains the info in your mind, as such the spell is ACTIVE for the duration, and can be dispelled causing the copy to disappear from your mind (now, what you learned from reading it when it was in your mind does not). It would be standard to cast detect magic/dispel on students in magical academies before tests then. :P.
2. The spell uploads info to your mind, which then starts deteriorating. Which would mean the longer you wait to make a physical copy, the worse. To keep this one effective, it should be designed so that things deteriorate in order. that they just poof out. Maybe X pages per day, going in order. That way you can actually study the material without worring about learning incorrect info.

You could also say that after that spell came to being, many varients of it were made by various students. And create several such varients. And let people learn and use whichever varients they deem the most useful for them ;p.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BlaineTog 10-24-03, 09:44 PM	Student's Boon Divination Level: Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 1 Components: S, M, F, XP (see description) Casting Time: 1 sec/page Range: Personal Target: You Duration: Instantaneous An over-worked student bard was up late studying one night when, in a flash of inspiration, she discovered a method of osmosizing the information in a mundane book magically. She spent more time tweaking it and was able to adapt it to a Sorcerer/Wizard spell for her Sor/Wiz friends. This spell allows the caster to permenately learn all the information in any mundane book, flyer, or other form of writing storage. The caster can reference this information like an encyclopedia as a free action and never forgets it. The casting time is either one 8.5x11 inch page or 500 words per second. Once the incantation is complete, the information is considered mundane and can only be lost by a lesser wish, wish, or miracle spell, or divine intervention. If the book could offer a rank in a skill (DMs discretion), then an XP cost is inflicted, 50 for a rank in class skill and 100 for a rank in a non-class skill (Note: "Knowlegde" ranks are free of XP costs). If the book details a cetain type of creature, then a +1 bonus is applied to attack, damage, and Track rolls against that specific type of creature; this costs 100 XP per creature type (Note: The character also learns certain minor specials about the creature. For instance: "Fire is the best thing to use against Trolls.). Maps learned in this way allow the character to travel to places on the map (as long as the map itself was complete and correct). Material Component: A good cup of coffee or tea costing at least 2gp. Focus: The book to be osmosized. Special: The caster must be physically able to read the book (ie there must be sufficient light), and anything which could distract the caster causes a standard Cocnnetration check or the spell fails. So, whatcha thinK? Did I miss something? Any loopholes? Too powerful/weak? Thanks for your input, in advance. :tiphat:
Seeker95 10-24-03, 10:27 PM	As far as flavor is concerned, I like the spell. As for mechanics, I do not. With a simple 1st level spell, you effectively grant an unlimited number of favored enemies to every bard, wizard and sorcerer, so long as they can find a book on the subject. It further grants an unlimited number of no-skill-points-required skills. In both cases, the experience point cost will only prevent it from being abused at lower levels. I am not suggesting to get rid of the spell, but rather to create a different set of mechanics. Unfortunately, while I can share that I am uncomfortable with the current mechanics, I cannot think of a replacement set.
ikkonoishi 10-24-03, 10:34 PM	Make it so that the information is known as dry facts and the character gains no bonus from it. It would be good for a campain spell such as if you had to go and sneak some important information out of a library.
BlaineTog 10-24-03, 10:53 PM	Yeah, i kinda agree. I was going for a spell that gives flavor and a little pit of a bonus (so that it's not a waste of a spell in the case of Bards and sorcerers who have limited spells). Hmm... mabye scrap the skill points, favored ememie,s etc, but still allow bare info and Knowlegde points to be gained (with the XP penalty). perhaps increase the XP penatly to 100 for Class skills and 200 for non-class skills. This still seems a little off, though. I'd also really rather not increase the spell level (accept for the bard, perhaps) becuase it doesn't make role-play sense to be much higher...
Heron_Marked_Blade 10-24-03, 11:15 PM	As I understand Osmosis as it applies to absorbing knowledge, it's usually something students wish for the night before a big test. In that case, the effect is clearly related to Knowledge skills. A couple of suggestions: - Limit the spell's duration to 24 hours (or 12 hours if you think 24 hours is too long). Your knowledge gained through Osmosis will fade over time; consider it a short-term memory enhancer. - I don't think it would be broken to grant a +2 bonus to the appropriate Knowledge skills (whatever Knowledge the book/s dealt with) for the duration of the spell. I'd limit the number of skills that can be affected, probably to your INT mod + 1. - I'd raise the casting time to 1 round/Knowledge skill. I think 1st level is appropriate for a spell of this nature.
BlaineTog 10-25-03, 03:03 AM	Thanks for your suggestion. Here's the re-work. I'ts mostly what you said, but I'm gonna keep the permenant part for the general information gained, i think (since this aspect would not have any bearing on game mechanics and would bepurely for Role-playing purposes. Plus, carrying around a perfect copy of information for any length of time would leave at least SOME remnants.). Student's Boon , V 1.5 Divination Level: Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 1 Components: S, M, F Casting Time: Special (see text) Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 2 hours/level, Special (See Text) An over-worked student bard was up late studying one night when, in a flash of inspiration, she discovered a method of osmosizing the information in a mundane book magically. She passed her test the next morning with flying colors, and even though the particulars of the book faded, she kept a little of the knowledge. This spell allows the caster to gain a temporary bonus to Knowledge skills from books. Depending on the book, this bonus can range from +1 to +10. After the duration is up, the bonus is lost, although vestiges of the information remain lodged in the head of the caster (Note: releying on this information can be dangerous, as vital details may be lost). The spell can be cast on the same book again for the same bonus later, but it's effects do not stack. Any bonus gained in this way may equal, but not exceed, the caster's Inteligence modifier. This spell may be used on pieces of writing that do not convey a bonus (of any kind), in which case the caster remembers the information perfectly for 1d8 days. During this period, the character may create a perfect copy of the original, gaining a +5 to forge a copy (and only a copy. If any changes are made in the document, they could stand out stand out and reduce the bonus to +2), although no check is necessary if they they arn't trying to pass it off as the original (eg they character wants to make a copy of a map for her own use). Material Component: A good cup of coffee or tea costing at least 2gp. Focus: The book to be osmosized. A book which gives a bonus costs no less than it's (bonus squared)*20gp. Availability is based on town size (DM's discretion) Special: The caster must be physically able to read the book (ie there must be sufficient light), and anything which could distract the caster causes a standard Cocnnetration check or the spell fails. How's this look? More/less logical? I'm not quite sure about the price of the books. I'm kinda basing it off the cost of a standard spellbook. Thanks again for your help!
RabidWeasel 10-25-03, 05:08 AM	This looks good! Quite a useful spell, restricted by the necessity for an expensive focus. 2000 gp for +10 to a skill seems fair given that it has to be a knowledge skill.
Israfel666 10-25-03, 11:16 AM	I say it should last 1 day/level. After all, the first who used this spell was a student (-> low-level caster) who needed the knowledge for the following day. Also, the change wouldn't be overpowering IMO.
BlaineTog 10-25-03, 03:41 PM	Yeah, I see your point. So here's the chnages: Duration: 1day/level, Special (See text) Plus, I'm thinking about making it a cantrip for Wiz/Sor. It kinda feels more like that level, but I'm not quite sure. Does that sound too low? It would mean that they can't cast it as often, as well.
Seeker95 10-25-03, 05:10 PM	I agree that it should be a cantrip by design... You cannot cast 1st elvel spells until you have finished your studies, and this spell would have been designed to allow you to finish your studies! However, as a cantrip, I would treat the spell as Cram with a 24-hour flat duration. Then make a higher level version that provides longer term knowledge retention.
taltamir 12-10-04, 05:17 PM	Well, there are already books that give you bonuses to skills, and they dont have all that costs you mentioned, like XP. Its not the spell that allows infiniate knowledge skills that way, but the actual existance of such knowledge books that does so. They are also rare, and can only bestow their bonus on a person once. If you don't like them, cut them from the campaign, rather then cutting out this spell. All this spell does (or should do) is make reading those books more expedient. (they usually require you study the book for X hours over X days). Here is my suggestion. The spell copies the information in the book to your mind. However you need to actually go over it in your mind to absorb it. absoption is done through meditating on it, and is twice as expedient as it would be by simply reading it. So if you found a book that grants you a +1 to knowledge of so and so if you read it over a period of a week, then this will make it take 3.5 days to learn it instead. Making a limitation on the page size is useless without limiting how many pages. Otherwise you can just bind 10,000 pages together and call it a book. As such I would recommend the following per int bonus: 15 pages of writing. 2 pages of spells (remember spells take a page per level). 2 page sized maps. 1 page sized detailed drawing. And you can only reproduce what it is you have in your mind if you actually have the skills needed to do so (so you can make a scroll from a spell stored that way, if you have the feat, scribe it to a book, if you know how to, draw, if you make a successful profession: drawing check. Unsuccessful checks result in what seems to be obvious copies. Basically, it would be the SAME as if you tried to copy the original, maybe with a bonus on the roll, like a +2, for having it in your mind. That bonus could also be determined based on how many days its been since you "learned" it) Also, it does not trigger magic in the books. So if the book is a tome of +whatever reading it in this manner does not give you any bonus. And if its a tome enchanted with cursing the reader, you dont get that either. To complement it, I would suggest a "block" spell for it. So that malicious, or benevolent books that bestow actual MAGIC on one reader wouldnt be read this way to circumvent the magic. If taking a test over the material, you can try to quickly "browse" the information of the book in your mind, looking for certain facts. make this a full round action, that isnt gaurenteed to work (make a roll to see if you succed). Now, how long does it last? I would think it would be one of two things. 1. the spell maintains the info in your mind, as such the spell is ACTIVE for the duration, and can be dispelled causing the copy to disappear from your mind (now, what you learned from reading it when it was in your mind does not). It would be standard to cast detect magic/dispel on students in magical academies before tests then. :P. 2. The spell uploads info to your mind, which then starts deteriorating. Which would mean the longer you wait to make a physical copy, the worse. To keep this one effective, it should be designed so that things deteriorate in order. that they just poof out. Maybe X pages per day, going in order. That way you can actually study the material without worring about learning incorrect info. You could also say that after that spell came to being, many varients of it were made by various students. And create several such varients. And let people learn and use whichever varients they deem the most useful for them ;p.