Post/Author/DateTime	Post
cophos 01-07-06, 07:32 AM	Hi ... Our group's playing a 3rd level adventure atm. I'm running a dwarfen Wizard (some sort of archaeological, finding/crafting items, "Mage of the Arcane order" approach.) however I thouht about switching to the Archivist class. (indeed making a new level 3 character) Why? I chose the wizard to have access to a wide variety of spells, finding scrolls is not a problem, but copying them is a pretty expensive thing. So how do you manage your wizard's budget? Just getting the most essential spells or spending all your money on it? (or loosing XP by crafting items and get the money that way.) Since the archivist has to spend time but no money on learning spells (if I remeber correctly) and being a stron base class anyway, I really think about switching. What's your approach?
Bopple 01-07-06, 09:34 AM	Since the archivist has to spend time but no money on learning spells AFAIK, archivists add spells just as wizards do. Thus, they have to spend money.
cophos 01-07-06, 09:58 AM	AFAIK, archivists add spells just as wizards do. Thus, they have to spend money. At least it would be fair... ;) Anyway I only saw the online preview of the Archivist, which says: "can also add spells found on scrolls containing divine spells to his pb, but he must make any rolls and spend the time required. (see page ... )" Mentioning only two of 3 aspects doesn't seem that consequent ... Anyway, the money question remains. (for one or for both classes.)
Bopple 01-07-06, 10:16 AM	That part refers to this; Adding Spells to a Wizard’s Spellbook ... Spells Copied from Another’s Spellbook or a Scroll: A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Next, she must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell’s level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from her specialty school. She cannot, however, learn any spells from her prohibited schools. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into her spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, below). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment. ... As you see, you make rolls and spend time, but spend no money, at this stage, any way. But then it refers to this; Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook Once a wizard understands a new spell, she can record it into her spellbook. Time: The process takes 24 hours, regardless of the spell’s level. Space in the Spellbook: A spell takes up one page of the spellbook per spell level. Even a 0-level spell (cantrip) takes one page. A spellbook has one hundred pages. Materials and Costs: Materials for writing the spell cost 100 gp per page. Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for the spells she gains for free at each new level.
cophos 01-07-06, 10:32 AM	That part refers to this; As you see, you make rolls and spend time, but spend no money, at this stage, any way. But then it refers to this; As I stated: I wasn't 100% sure but I really didn't get it like that either when I first read the archivist, anyway, still need gold. ;)
Xalnop 01-07-06, 03:39 PM	That's why Geometer is cool... cause each spell only takes one page. :)
cophos 01-07-06, 03:42 PM	That's why Geometer is cool... cause each spell only takes one page. :) I thought about that anyway. ;) But I really wondered how other wizards manage these problems ... (Esp. at the early stage of the character devellopment.) I would also appreciate good tips for my treasure hunting, crafting, collecting dwarfen wizard. Mage of the arcane order would fit pretty nicely and would help with the spell selection , but I'm not sure though how strong it is ...
Lia Nightdemon 01-07-06, 04:00 PM	One really effective way to make gold is to invest in trade goods as if your DM does it correctly are cheaper in some areas and more expensive in others. So like stocks in you buy them when there low (or iinexpensive) in a town and then selling them when they are worth alot more you will make money. Note this may require alot of starting gold to be effective. Other way to earn some gold if your not good algned is to murder some shop keeps and swipe all the inventory. wouldn't recommend doing it till higher level though. Unless your DM really doesn't like that and will go out of his way to stop you. disquising and shapechanging magic comes great use here since you can change your form before commiting murder and then changing into someone else so no one will know it was you. changleings make great commoner murders.
cophos 01-07-06, 04:06 PM	One really effective way to make gold is to invest in trade goods as if your DM does it correctly are cheaper in some areas and more expensive in others. So like stocks in you buy them when there low (or iinexpensive) in a town and then selling them when they are worth alot more you will make money. Note this may require alot of starting gold to be effective. Other way to earn some gold if your not good algned is to murder some shop keeps and swipe all the inventory. wouldn't recommend doing it till higher level though. Unless your DM really doesn't like that and will go out of his way to stop you. disquising and shapechanging magic comes great use here since you can change your form before commiting murder and then changing into someone else so no one will know it was you. changleings make great commoner murders. Isn't there a more "standard" way than murdering shop owners? ;) I mean you to get a good amount of spells between level one and three? Has the wizard to spend all his money on spells rather than on items to gain his benefits? It just seemed weird to me.
smrtgmp 01-07-06, 06:38 PM	Get yourself a blessed book. The upfront cost is prohibitive, but its well worth the investment. Obvioulsy, its price will prevent you from obtaining one for a few levels, but I would start saving now. An excellent purchace for any wizard, especially if they're a geometer.
cophos 01-08-06, 03:11 AM	Yeah, expensive Items and PrC's are great, but a wizard still needs lots of scrolls and some basic utility items. A level 3 char has around 3000$ in possesions. Assuming he wants to have like 4-5 level 2 spells he has to spend more than 500$ on each. (or 400$ if he found the scrolls.) (And it's pretty reasonable that he wants to have some additional level 1 spells too. (200$ - 300$ each) That's a lot of money just to "make a class work". On higher levels it's not an issue, but what's the wizards role on the lower ones?
Sancus 01-08-06, 03:52 AM	Yeah, expensive Items and PrC's are great, but a wizard still needs lots of scrolls and some basic utility items. A level 3 char has around 3000$ in possesions. Assuming he wants to have like 4-5 level 2 spells he has to spend more than 500$ on each. (or 400$ if he found the scrolls.) (And it's pretty reasonable that he wants to have some additional level 1 spells too. (200$ - 300$ each) That's a lot of money just to "make a class work". On higher levels it's not an issue, but what's the wizards role on the lower ones? What? Are you playing 3.0 or something? Costs have been cut in half in 3.5. A 2nd level spell costs 200gp to scribe, on two pages. It is one page per spell level now. Oh, and you can generally avoid the scroll cost - most DMs, if you're starting higher than level 1, will allow you to take additional spells at the scribing cost, assuming that you copied them from another spellbook during your studies and previous adventures. This works much better if your wizard is part of a guild or other organization that would make getting access to borrowed spellbooks easier. Then there should be additional opportunities as the campaign progresses to copy from other spellbooks, whether captured ones(or you can just keep them and master them per Complete Arcane/Magic of Faerun's rules, if you can make the spellcraft DC) or additional borrowed ones.
cophos 01-08-06, 04:22 AM	What? Are you playing 3.0 or something? Costs have been cut in half in 3.5. A 2nd level spell costs 200gp to scribe, on two pages. It is one page per spell level now. Oh, and you can generally avoid the scroll cost - most DMs, if you're starting higher than level 1, will allow you to take additional spells at the scribing cost, assuming that you copied them from another spellbook during your studies and previous adventures. This works much better if your wizard is part of a guild or other organization that would make getting access to borrowed spellbooks easier. Then there should be additional opportunities as the campaign progresses to copy from other spellbooks, whether captured ones(or you can just keep them and master them per Complete Arcane/Magic of Faerun's rules, if you can make the spellcraft DC) or additional borrowed ones. Great, atm I only have the 3.0 PHB at home, so ... ;) (Our group's playing 3.5 nevertheless...) Well that makes a lot of things easier.