A few MKD questions. [Archive] - Wizards Community

A few MKD questions. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AzraelNoir
02-20-08, 12:49 AM 1. If you use MKD (Mordenkainens Disjunction) on a person with timeless body active will it dispel any other ongoing effects and/or have the potential to disjoin any items on that person? It does not clearly state how timeless body works with ongoing effects on you. It renders you immune to them but are their effects suppressed and thus not subject to any form of attack or power just like you? Anyways, I can't make a clear call on this.

2. Does an initiate of the seven fold veil's last 2 veils (especially the last one) prevent MKD from entering or even affecting the veils themselves? Since they are kind of like prismatic wall (sphere) one might think that an MKD would take them down; if this is so are the veils simply disjoined and the spell ends, or would MKD go on to further dispel everything inside your veils. The reason I have a problem with this is because the final veil does stop all objects and effects so I would think MKD would be included in that.

If this is true then putting up a veil as an immediate action to protect yourself from a MKD would be useless, correct?

Or could you even go further to say that if you were to put up a wall right in front of the caster of the MKD (as an immediate action) would that block his LoE thus canceling out his casting of the spell?
AzraelNoir
02-20-08, 06:22 PM umm...bump...my campaign is tomorrow so I needed to bump this early.

If you don't know for sure I will take speculations, just indicate that its only a guess.
jaelis
02-20-08, 06:49 PM Are you talking about the druid's timeless body ability or something else? I'm guessing something else...
AzraelNoir
02-21-08, 01:03 AM Yeah, I forgot there were multiple things with that name. Timeless body is also a 9th level psion power.
AzraelNoir
02-22-08, 01:51 AM Seriously, does no one know...?
groveborn
02-22-08, 02:31 AM MDJ does not affect psionics.
AzraelNoir
02-22-08, 02:49 AM Psionic Magic Transparency...yes it does.
Black Mantha
02-22-08, 10:39 AM - The way timeless body is worded, it only protects yourself, not the spells or items on you.
- I don't see anywhere that a prismatic wall cuts off the area reached by MDK, so the initiate ability won't work either. If MDK would be cut off, I'd say the the initiate ability is obviously an imitation of PW, and should react the same.
Wind of Darkness
02-22-08, 12:58 PM Regarding veils/PW, the Indigo layer stops all spells, and the violet layer destroys all spells and effects. I'd say that no where is it stated that MDJ is an exception to the rule, all means all and PW stops MDJ. Of course, I'm inclined to rule against MDJ wherever I can because it's ****ing broken, and it might just be my bias speaking.

EDIT: MDJ says "all", too so it's a matter of deciding which takes precedence. Since MDJ is the higher level effect, there's a good argument for ruling in its favor. Like I said earlier, I ****ing hate that spell, so I'd likely rule against it anyway.
groveborn
02-22-08, 03:31 PM Regarding veils/PW, the Indigo layer stops all spells, and the violet layer destroys all spells and effects. I'd say that no where is it stated that MDJ is an exception to the rule, all means all and PW stops MDJ. Of course, I'm inclined to rule against MDJ wherever I can because it's ****ing broken, and it might just be my bias speaking.

EDIT: MDJ says "all", too so it's a matter of deciding which takes precedence. Since MDJ is the higher level effect, there's a good argument for ruling in its favor. Like I said earlier, I ****ing hate that spell, so I'd likely rule against it anyway.

They'd cancel each other out, the wall would go down, but nothing behind it would be affected.
AzraelNoir
02-23-08, 01:57 AM They'd cancel each other out, the wall would go down, but nothing behind it would be affected.

Of course, this is also just you speculating; but I wish it did work that way.

However you guys are wrong about one thing, it specifically states under prismatic wall that and MKD does destroy it.

However, what one should realize is there are differences between a wall and the veils (operationally). A wall is all the effects up at once and in order. With veils you are able to use the walls most powerful effects (indigo and violet) which technically are only available to a wall when you go through the others so that could be why MKD destroys a wall. Its not the most logical explanation but it could work.

At the very least I would say that the MKD only destroys the veils and nothing beyond them; that sounds fair to me.

It does say all objects and effects, and/or all spells...sooo, its a tough call either way. If no one can give me anything official on it I will probably just rule they cancel each other out cause that seems like the fairest solution.
AzraelNoir
02-27-08, 09:56 PM ULTRA BUMP!!!
Omen_of_Peace
02-28-08, 06:33 AM This is a "complex rule question" as CustServ would put it ; you made a reasonable ruling so I would stick to that.
I think I would rule that MDJ disjoins everything, but I tend to avoid using it as written anyway.

To defend against MDJ...
- use prepared actions or Celerity (PHB2) to disrupt the casting or immediate-action abilities to counterspell
- use a Ring of Spell-Battle (MIC) to move the effect
- use contingent spells
AzraelNoir
02-29-08, 02:36 AM Yeah I am not too worried about MKD I just want to know its parameters as far as those are concerned.

Yeah, Celerity (and greater) have always been #1 in my book. I mean honestly...it gives you a full action (the greater one) which effectively allows you to use any spell or ability as an immediate action. Top it off with favor of the martyr and you don't get dazed.

The problem is...well, I don't really want to get into it. Its all about the meta-uses of actions.

In anycase, you are right, it is a complex rule question...as long as my ruling seems fair then im sticking with it.
bluedsteel
02-29-08, 01:53 PM Or could you even go further to say that if you were to put up a wall right in front of the caster of the MDJ (as an immediate action) would that block his LoE thus canceling out his casting of the spell?

Since nobody addressed this and I happen to find it the best defense against MKD... yes, disrupting LoE causes the spell to not work. My preferred tactic is to have a contingent teleport crafted such that if anyone attempts to cast MDJ at me, a tarp that I cast Shrink on and carry in my pack is teleported in front/on top of them. This disrupts LoE, preventing the spell from being effective. (Plus... they're stuck under a big tarp.:D ) But you can also put up a wall of some sorts... Wall of Stone works, Prismatic Wall works, but I think transparent walls don't... I had a DM rule that wall of force failed, but that may have been just a DM rule because he'd been gunning for my equipment for 3 sessions.:rolleyes:
AzraelNoir
03-01-08, 03:08 PM I have a contingent plan like that although not as creative and it does not use the contingency spell. The only problem with using the wall to disrupt LoE is they can still bypass it if they have celerity or are an animagus.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AzraelNoir 02-20-08, 12:49 AM	1. If you use MKD (Mordenkainens Disjunction) on a person with timeless body active will it dispel any other ongoing effects and/or have the potential to disjoin any items on that person? It does not clearly state how timeless body works with ongoing effects on you. It renders you immune to them but are their effects suppressed and thus not subject to any form of attack or power just like you? Anyways, I can't make a clear call on this. 2. Does an initiate of the seven fold veil's last 2 veils (especially the last one) prevent MKD from entering or even affecting the veils themselves? Since they are kind of like prismatic wall (sphere) one might think that an MKD would take them down; if this is so are the veils simply disjoined and the spell ends, or would MKD go on to further dispel everything inside your veils. The reason I have a problem with this is because the final veil does stop all objects and effects so I would think MKD would be included in that. If this is true then putting up a veil as an immediate action to protect yourself from a MKD would be useless, correct? Or could you even go further to say that if you were to put up a wall right in front of the caster of the MKD (as an immediate action) would that block his LoE thus canceling out his casting of the spell?
AzraelNoir 02-20-08, 06:22 PM	umm...bump...my campaign is tomorrow so I needed to bump this early. If you don't know for sure I will take speculations, just indicate that its only a guess.
jaelis 02-20-08, 06:49 PM	Are you talking about the druid's timeless body ability or something else? I'm guessing something else...
AzraelNoir 02-21-08, 01:03 AM	Yeah, I forgot there were multiple things with that name. Timeless body is also a 9th level psion power.
AzraelNoir 02-22-08, 01:51 AM	Seriously, does no one know...?
groveborn 02-22-08, 02:31 AM	MDJ does not affect psionics.
AzraelNoir 02-22-08, 02:49 AM	Psionic Magic Transparency...yes it does.
Black Mantha 02-22-08, 10:39 AM	- The way timeless body is worded, it only protects yourself, not the spells or items on you. - I don't see anywhere that a prismatic wall cuts off the area reached by MDK, so the initiate ability won't work either. If MDK would be cut off, I'd say the the initiate ability is obviously an imitation of PW, and should react the same.
Wind of Darkness 02-22-08, 12:58 PM	Regarding veils/PW, the Indigo layer stops all spells, and the violet layer destroys all spells and effects. I'd say that no where is it stated that MDJ is an exception to the rule, all means all and PW stops MDJ. Of course, I'm inclined to rule against MDJ wherever I can because it's **ing broken, and it might just be my bias speaking. EDIT: MDJ says "all", too so it's a matter of deciding which takes precedence. Since MDJ is the higher level effect, there's a good argument for ruling in its favor. Like I said earlier, I **ing hate that spell, so I'd likely rule against it anyway.
groveborn 02-22-08, 03:31 PM	Regarding veils/PW, the Indigo layer stops all spells, and the violet layer destroys all spells and effects. I'd say that no where is it stated that MDJ is an exception to the rule, all means all and PW stops MDJ. Of course, I'm inclined to rule against MDJ wherever I can because it's **ing broken, and it might just be my bias speaking. EDIT: MDJ says "all", too so it's a matter of deciding which takes precedence. Since MDJ is the higher level effect, there's a good argument for ruling in its favor. Like I said earlier, I **ing hate that spell, so I'd likely rule against it anyway. They'd cancel each other out, the wall would go down, but nothing behind it would be affected.
AzraelNoir 02-23-08, 01:57 AM	They'd cancel each other out, the wall would go down, but nothing behind it would be affected. Of course, this is also just you speculating; but I wish it did work that way. However you guys are wrong about one thing, it specifically states under prismatic wall that and MKD does destroy it. However, what one should realize is there are differences between a wall and the veils (operationally). A wall is all the effects up at once and in order. With veils you are able to use the walls most powerful effects (indigo and violet) which technically are only available to a wall when you go through the others so that could be why MKD destroys a wall. Its not the most logical explanation but it could work. At the very least I would say that the MKD only destroys the veils and nothing beyond them; that sounds fair to me. It does say all objects and effects, and/or all spells...sooo, its a tough call either way. If no one can give me anything official on it I will probably just rule they cancel each other out cause that seems like the fairest solution.
AzraelNoir 02-27-08, 09:56 PM	ULTRA BUMP!!!
Omen_of_Peace 02-28-08, 06:33 AM	This is a "complex rule question" as CustServ would put it ; you made a reasonable ruling so I would stick to that. I think I would rule that MDJ disjoins everything, but I tend to avoid using it as written anyway. To defend against MDJ... - use prepared actions or Celerity (PHB2) to disrupt the casting or immediate-action abilities to counterspell - use a Ring of Spell-Battle (MIC) to move the effect - use contingent spells
AzraelNoir 02-29-08, 02:36 AM	Yeah I am not too worried about MKD I just want to know its parameters as far as those are concerned. Yeah, Celerity (and greater) have always been #1 in my book. I mean honestly...it gives you a full action (the greater one) which effectively allows you to use any spell or ability as an immediate action. Top it off with favor of the martyr and you don't get dazed. The problem is...well, I don't really want to get into it. Its all about the meta-uses of actions. In anycase, you are right, it is a complex rule question...as long as my ruling seems fair then im sticking with it.
bluedsteel 02-29-08, 01:53 PM	Or could you even go further to say that if you were to put up a wall right in front of the caster of the MDJ (as an immediate action) would that block his LoE thus canceling out his casting of the spell? Since nobody addressed this and I happen to find it the best defense against MKD... yes, disrupting LoE causes the spell to not work. My preferred tactic is to have a contingent teleport crafted such that if anyone attempts to cast MDJ at me, a tarp that I cast Shrink on and carry in my pack is teleported in front/on top of them. This disrupts LoE, preventing the spell from being effective. (Plus... they're stuck under a big tarp.:D ) But you can also put up a wall of some sorts... Wall of Stone works, Prismatic Wall works, but I think transparent walls don't... I had a DM rule that wall of force failed, but that may have been just a DM rule because he'd been gunning for my equipment for 3 sessions.:rolleyes:
AzraelNoir 03-01-08, 03:08 PM	I have a contingent plan like that although not as creative and it does not use the contingency spell. The only problem with using the wall to disrupt LoE is they can still bypass it if they have celerity or are an animagus.