A good vampire and cleric spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

A good vampire and cleric spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
EyelessBeholder
09-13-05, 04:17 PM I know in the DMG it says remotely its up to the person running the game. I had a character i was playing who was a human turned vampire and the problem with my character was that the DM said i could multi cleric which i was originally intending to do , but my god ignores me when i get my class. He said cause im undead i cant cast good spells.

Would you allow a undead to channel posative energy ?
Puca
09-13-05, 04:30 PM So, let me get this:
Youre a vampire, and already have levels in some other class, and multiclassed into cleric.

Your DM said this is OK.

After you take the level, your DM tells you that you cant cast any spells because they are good?

1) Your DM should have told you this from the begining: how would it even work? How could you become a class and then find out you cant use its class abilities? Thats B.S.

2) Not all spells, even those available to Good clerics have the [good] descriptor, so this explanation sounds bogus.

3) The positive energy thing doesnt make any sense either. Living creatures are perfectly capable of using negative energy spells witout harming themselves?
Seeker95
09-13-05, 04:53 PM You have a bad DM.

1. He is changing his own rules midstream.
2. He is letting you play a good vampire.
EyelessBeholder
09-13-05, 07:34 PM Like i said the DMG says regarless of anything the DM is the judicator yah know.
My character was fighter , planning going cleric .... he was worshiping a god , a good god, then fate made him a vampire ...... the MM says only vampires are evil but My DM said thats bogus why should being turned to a vampire make you evil he gave me a will save low DC and i passed. The problem was though he didnt think a good god would allow a undead to channel his energy so when i hit my level for clergy, my cries to a god went on deaf ears.
Fat Man
09-13-05, 08:05 PM If your charecter still worships the god in question then in theory you should be able to become a cleric for that god but since good clerics can turn undead and you're undead turning could get messy to say the least (how do you run away from yourself)
Seeker95
09-13-05, 08:42 PM I'll say it again... bad DM.

If he is going to allow you to be a good vampire, then why the hell would your god care whether you were undead or not if you are good. And if he does care, then why would he let you gain a level in cleric in the first place?
shift244
09-13-05, 09:04 PM Vampires are evil... a Good vampire, is... a cause for distruptive and paradoxical arguments.

I say:
If the God you have prayed to for so long has forsaken you, then turn to another. There are other Gods out there who would welcome your believe in them, and would be willing to grant you spells when you pray to them."

Talk to your DM about becoming Evil, and turn to an Evil god. Perhaps you will loose the spontaneous Cure spells ability, but you can still cast Cure spells... you just need to prepare them before hand.

Having an Evil charatcer in a (generally) Good party is not entirely out of question either. Even a Paladin in the party can find reasons not to smite you here and now.. It would provide much oppotunity to role play PC interaction, as your PC now perhaps, ponders over his/her situation and form new goals... would you pray upon your party now? How Evil will the vampric trait, which now courses within your blood change you? Maybe the PC will have an internal moral struggle within, and then succumb to the eternity as time hardens feelings? (And the retire as an NPC, for some future game?) Will your (former) party accept your new form? Closer PC relationships prior to your vamprism will make even more memorial interactions.

Ignore the pansy Good aligned deities, and go with the Evil ones... the main plot need not break.. you just need to form a new role play reason.
Nephlite
09-13-05, 09:18 PM Like i said the DMG says regarless of anything the DM is the judicator yah know.
My character was fighter , planning going cleric .... he was worshiping a god , a good god, then fate made him a vampire ...... the MM says only vampires are evil but My DM said thats bogus why should being turned to a vampire make you evil he gave me a will save low DC and i passed. The problem was though he didnt think a good god would allow a undead to channel his energy so when i hit my level for clergy, my cries to a god went on deaf ears.

Change gods. Wee Jas cares not for life or death. She is a merciful, beautiful woman. She hears your undead pleading.

So worship Wee Jas or nothing at all (just cause and fain all your spell casting back)
Yes, you too can worship noithing and cast spells. Says so in the PHB that you just choose 2 domains that fit your cause.
EyelessBeholder
09-13-05, 09:23 PM My vampire fed on evil humans , via detect evil .... so you can be the judge of what alighnment hed be .... i wanted to say he was chaotic good but i could be wrong.

His biggest thing was saying that most the gods were dead due to the Big bad guy who we were out to kill thats why my spells never came , but this was after he showed a most obvious distain for my cleric vampire casting spells .... he turned me vampire then had a hard time running a vamp pc due to its enourmas abilities.
Kyuketsukiouji
09-13-05, 09:48 PM You're a cleric. You god won't grant spells to undead.

Buy a scroll of Raise Dead and stop being a walking pile of vulnerabilities waiting for the nearest mob of pitchfork-wielding peasants to roll a 10 on their Knowledge(Undead) checks.

Problem solved.
Seeker95
09-13-05, 10:33 PM My vampire fed on evil humans , via detect evil .... so you can be the judge of what alignment he'd be .... i wanted to say he was chaotic good but i could be wrong.Oooh... But your honor, I only cannibalized *evil* people.

You are (were) human.
You drink the blood of humans.
You're evil.

Anne Rice and Joss Whedon have turned the media-intoxicated world into an angst-loving pile of vampire-lovers.
Milo HoBo
09-14-05, 12:57 AM You're a cleric. You god won't grant spells to undead.

Buy a scroll of Raise Dead and stop being a walking pile of vulnerabilities waiting for the nearest mob of pitchfork-wielding peasants to roll a 10 on their Knowledge(Undead) checks.

Problem solved.
Raise dead won't raise and undead. You'll need resurection or stronger. Furthermore, the ability for a cleric to choose a cause instead of a diety is an excelent choice. I feel that their are, however some good (but not lawful good) dieties that would sponser a vampire who is good. Pelor would be completely out of the question, however. Have fun with the roleplaying aspects, but avoid feeding until the evil people are dead, for you might spawn more vampires (only these will definately be evil).
Puca
09-14-05, 09:43 AM Oooh... But your honor, I only cannibalized *evil* people.

You are (were) human.
You drink the blood of humans.
You're evil.

Anne Rice and Joss Whedon have turned the media-intoxicated world into an angst-loving pile of vampire-lovers.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

True, and funny.
Venom of the Yuan Ti
09-14-05, 10:36 AM If you want to be CG, then I have the perfect god for you.
Olidamara.
Like he is going to care if you are alive or dead, all he cares about is wine, women and song (and a little light theft...)
Or from Libris Mortis.
Evening Glory.
NN Goddess of imortal love through undeath, domains charm, amgic, protection.

Like she is going to turn you away...

But on the whole why are vamps evil deal, when you became one a powerfull evil curse flooded your veins, twisting you into a mockery of your former self, bathing you in evil and power in equal messure. In a very real way you ceased to be, and a new creature was born.
Phrennzy
09-14-05, 11:09 AM I woud not let a vampire channel positive energy.
I also would not allow a 'good' vampire.

But, if I did allow a good vampire, I would tell the player before hand that his God will forsake him, so cleric is a bad idea.

Go get your Rezz on and knock off the Vamp business. Your DM should be amenable to it, since it sounds like he can't handle a vampire PC.
Jimbo19
09-14-05, 11:25 AM Ok Seeker, so what you are saying is that you could take a Bishop of the Church, one that is Lawful Good and a true believer, then bite him on his way to the orphange, and he will turn into a slavering bloodsucker that slurps down babies, just like that?

And you say those people who are reading too much bad Ann rice, are the simplistic ones?

Please.

I love the way so many people who play this game, have a black and white view of alignments.

Merely because someone gets infected with vampirism, does that mean their soul is gone? If so then seeker is right. If their soul is still there, then he is an idiot.

Live by the black and white view, die by the black and white view.

Play your game as you want but I find it crazy to think that a person wakes up a vampire, then they suddenly MUST start being evil. If that is so, then the whole drizzt crapola needs to be trashed as well.

Of course, in this guys example he was turned to a Vampire first , then wanted to take Cleric? Now that is silly. DM should not allow a non cleric vampire join the church. If he was already a practicing cleric, I could see them either helping him back to humanity or using him as the perfect undead slayer. But no way allowing him in as an "off the street vapire", heh.

I dont see what this DM did wrong, other then allowing the vampire to take cleric levels. That was his mistake.
Wyrd Bearer
09-14-05, 12:00 PM Snide comments about good-aligned vampires and the DMs who allow them asides, lets go back to the original topic.

EyelessBeholder, what god did your character worship prior to sudden case of hemophillia? Most resonable deities would probably accept you if you still adhear to their tenents. However, there are a few, such as Pelor for example, who are gigantic sticks-in-the-mud (or some other suitable dark and smelly place) and will do their best to be belligerant towards you and your new unfortunate condition. I recommend a change of faith, my friend, to a diety who is more inclined to accept you regardless of your condition.

Evening Glory is a good choice, though flavour-wise, keep looking unless you lost a lover to the same vampire that allowed you to continue on. Wee Jas would understand, as would Vecna and Nerull. If you insist on remaining good, Olidamara could work and I believe that you could even venerate Kord, which would suite your inclination towards combat and strength (your levels in fighter).

And you could even channel positive energy. I doubt that with your puny amount of HD and few levels of cleric you'd even be able to affect yourself, much less so any undead of an appropriate CR though, so why bother?

Becoming a vampire should probably cause an alignment change, even I would agree with that. But since you were once a good person, and if you are adamanent to continue as one, you'll need to keep your new instincts in check.

Like a human resisting the urge to kill his neighbor to claim his land, money and wife, you now must resist your urge to feed on sentient life if you wish to remain part of society. Feed on rats, pigs, birds, what have you, just don't feed on sentients, even if they are evil. A truely good person wouldn't go around killing people just because those people are evil (just as a truely well played paladin won't automatically smite every evil person she finds). Living this way over a long time will warrent an alignment change back towards neutral and eventually good again.

But I will agree with many of the other posters and say that being a vampire is very much a detriment in of itself. I'd rather have those 8 HD that a vamp will lose out on and I'd rather not have all those weaknesses. So yes, go and ask that a cleric rez you so that you can advance as a normal character again.

That, and since your DM has proven that s/he is incapable of being a good DM, I suggest finding a new one. DM backpeddling is a sign of incompetence.
Seeker95
09-14-05, 05:23 PM Ok Seeker, so what you are saying is that you could take a Bishop of the Church, one that is Lawful Good and a true believer, then bite him on his way to the orphange, and he will turn into a slavering bloodsucker that slurps down babies, just like that?Yes. The bishop is dead. The undead body of the bishop is now a blood-thirsty, blood-sucking EVIL creature.
Wyrd Bearer
09-14-05, 08:19 PM Yes. The bishop is dead. The undead body of the bishop is now a blood-thirsty, blood-sucking EVIL creature.

Question: Has the bishop lost his soul (and thus his previous personality) upon becoming a vampire? I know that if he became a skeleton or a zombie he'd have moved on and become petitioner/disembodied soul/however else the afterlife works.
shift244
09-14-05, 08:53 PM Question: Has the bishop lost his soul (and thus his previous personality) upon becoming a vampire? I know that if he became a skeleton or a zombie he'd have moved on and become petitioner/disembodied soul/however else the afterlife works. As I have never actually studied a D&D vampire before, I cannot say that s/he has.. neither would I agree if you claim s/he hasn't either. :D

Sarcasm aside, the Evil alignment is more than just "my vampire attacks only evil humans". The curse of vamprism would arguably cause more corruption on the being/character (soul and what not, if it's still there). Liken this to the Helm of Opposing Alignment. The wearer changes to an opposing alignment. From then on REGARDLESS of s/he was BEFORE... s/he is now aligned as s/he IS. Vamprism, Lichdom and such can work in such a manner, with a more stringent result; instead of being opposing alignment, one becomes EVIL. Regardless.

And there are many subtleties to the label evil as well, and you need not be of the "Stupid Evil" alignment [;)], which I am quite willing to make bets that at least some reading this thread has the thought cross his/her mind. :P

An yeah.. you CAN become a cleric and cast divine spells without worshipping a named god, but then, I assumed (yah, I know it makes *! of u n me) that your DM would prefer you take to one.
As said, living creatures can channel negative energy safely (though arguably, A->B doesn't necessarily mean B->A). I cannot recall reading anywhere, that undead cannot channel posisitve energy, nor that channeling positive energy would harm an undead-self.
The ONLY argument you DM can put forth is "In this world of mine..." which, like Seeker said is going back on his words. Turn evil and "wreck havoc".
High Octane
09-14-05, 09:21 PM Change gods. Wee Jas cares not for life or death. She is a merciful, beautiful woman. She hears your undead pleading.

If you think that Wee Jas is merciful you have some serious head problems. She's the strict teacher who slaps your hand when you are 8 and misspell valetudinarian. Only a deity with a fetish for death.

Oh and I agree about the Anne Rice and Joss Whedon comment.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EyelessBeholder 09-13-05, 04:17 PM	I know in the DMG it says remotely its up to the person running the game. I had a character i was playing who was a human turned vampire and the problem with my character was that the DM said i could multi cleric which i was originally intending to do , but my god ignores me when i get my class. He said cause im undead i cant cast good spells. Would you allow a undead to channel posative energy ?
Puca 09-13-05, 04:30 PM	So, let me get this: Youre a vampire, and already have levels in some other class, and multiclassed into cleric. Your DM said this is OK. After you take the level, your DM tells you that you cant cast any spells because they are good? 1) Your DM should have told you this from the begining: how would it even work? How could you become a class and then find out you cant use its class abilities? Thats B.S. 2) Not all spells, even those available to Good clerics have the [good] descriptor, so this explanation sounds bogus. 3) The positive energy thing doesnt make any sense either. Living creatures are perfectly capable of using negative energy spells witout harming themselves?
Seeker95 09-13-05, 04:53 PM	You have a bad DM. 1. He is changing his own rules midstream. 2. He is letting you play a good vampire.
EyelessBeholder 09-13-05, 07:34 PM	Like i said the DMG says regarless of anything the DM is the judicator yah know. My character was fighter , planning going cleric .... he was worshiping a god , a good god, then fate made him a vampire ...... the MM says only vampires are evil but My DM said thats bogus why should being turned to a vampire make you evil he gave me a will save low DC and i passed. The problem was though he didnt think a good god would allow a undead to channel his energy so when i hit my level for clergy, my cries to a god went on deaf ears.
Fat Man 09-13-05, 08:05 PM	If your charecter still worships the god in question then in theory you should be able to become a cleric for that god but since good clerics can turn undead and you're undead turning could get messy to say the least (how do you run away from yourself)
Seeker95 09-13-05, 08:42 PM	I'll say it again... bad DM. If he is going to allow you to be a good vampire, then why the hell would your god care whether you were undead or not if you are good. And if he does care, then why would he let you gain a level in cleric in the first place?
shift244 09-13-05, 09:04 PM	Vampires are evil... a Good vampire, is... a cause for distruptive and paradoxical arguments. I say: If the God you have prayed to for so long has forsaken you, then turn to another. There are other Gods out there who would welcome your believe in them, and would be willing to grant you spells when you pray to them." Talk to your DM about becoming Evil, and turn to an Evil god. Perhaps you will loose the spontaneous Cure spells ability, but you can still cast Cure spells... you just need to prepare them before hand. Having an Evil charatcer in a (generally) Good party is not entirely out of question either. Even a Paladin in the party can find reasons not to smite you here and now.. It would provide much oppotunity to role play PC interaction, as your PC now perhaps, ponders over his/her situation and form new goals... would you pray upon your party now? How Evil will the vampric trait, which now courses within your blood change you? Maybe the PC will have an internal moral struggle within, and then succumb to the eternity as time hardens feelings? (And the retire as an NPC, for some future game?) Will your (former) party accept your new form? Closer PC relationships prior to your vamprism will make even more memorial interactions. Ignore the pansy Good aligned deities, and go with the Evil ones... the main plot need not break.. you just need to form a new role play reason.
Nephlite 09-13-05, 09:18 PM	Like i said the DMG says regarless of anything the DM is the judicator yah know. My character was fighter , planning going cleric .... he was worshiping a god , a good god, then fate made him a vampire ...... the MM says only vampires are evil but My DM said thats bogus why should being turned to a vampire make you evil he gave me a will save low DC and i passed. The problem was though he didnt think a good god would allow a undead to channel his energy so when i hit my level for clergy, my cries to a god went on deaf ears. Change gods. Wee Jas cares not for life or death. She is a merciful, beautiful woman. She hears your undead pleading. So worship Wee Jas or nothing at all (just cause and fain all your spell casting back) Yes, you too can worship noithing and cast spells. Says so in the PHB that you just choose 2 domains that fit your cause.
EyelessBeholder 09-13-05, 09:23 PM	My vampire fed on evil humans , via detect evil .... so you can be the judge of what alighnment hed be .... i wanted to say he was chaotic good but i could be wrong. His biggest thing was saying that most the gods were dead due to the Big bad guy who we were out to kill thats why my spells never came , but this was after he showed a most obvious distain for my cleric vampire casting spells .... he turned me vampire then had a hard time running a vamp pc due to its enourmas abilities.
Kyuketsukiouji 09-13-05, 09:48 PM	You're a cleric. You god won't grant spells to undead. Buy a scroll of Raise Dead and stop being a walking pile of vulnerabilities waiting for the nearest mob of pitchfork-wielding peasants to roll a 10 on their Knowledge(Undead) checks. Problem solved.
Seeker95 09-13-05, 10:33 PM	My vampire fed on evil humans , via detect evil .... so you can be the judge of what alignment he'd be .... i wanted to say he was chaotic good but i could be wrong.Oooh... But your honor, I only cannibalized evil people. You are (were) human. You drink the blood of humans. You're evil. Anne Rice and Joss Whedon have turned the media-intoxicated world into an angst-loving pile of vampire-lovers.
Milo HoBo 09-14-05, 12:57 AM	You're a cleric. You god won't grant spells to undead. Buy a scroll of Raise Dead and stop being a walking pile of vulnerabilities waiting for the nearest mob of pitchfork-wielding peasants to roll a 10 on their Knowledge(Undead) checks. Problem solved. Raise dead won't raise and undead. You'll need resurection or stronger. Furthermore, the ability for a cleric to choose a cause instead of a diety is an excelent choice. I feel that their are, however some good (but not lawful good) dieties that would sponser a vampire who is good. Pelor would be completely out of the question, however. Have fun with the roleplaying aspects, but avoid feeding until the evil people are dead, for you might spawn more vampires (only these will definately be evil).
Puca 09-14-05, 09:43 AM	Oooh... But your honor, I only cannibalized evil people. You are (were) human. You drink the blood of humans. You're evil. Anne Rice and Joss Whedon have turned the media-intoxicated world into an angst-loving pile of vampire-lovers. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: True, and funny.
Venom of the Yuan Ti 09-14-05, 10:36 AM	If you want to be CG, then I have the perfect god for you. Olidamara. Like he is going to care if you are alive or dead, all he cares about is wine, women and song (and a little light theft...) Or from Libris Mortis. Evening Glory. NN Goddess of imortal love through undeath, domains charm, amgic, protection. Like she is going to turn you away... But on the whole why are vamps evil deal, when you became one a powerfull evil curse flooded your veins, twisting you into a mockery of your former self, bathing you in evil and power in equal messure. In a very real way you ceased to be, and a new creature was born.
Phrennzy 09-14-05, 11:09 AM	I woud not let a vampire channel positive energy. I also would not allow a 'good' vampire. But, if I did allow a good vampire, I would tell the player before hand that his God will forsake him, so cleric is a bad idea. Go get your Rezz on and knock off the Vamp business. Your DM should be amenable to it, since it sounds like he can't handle a vampire PC.
Jimbo19 09-14-05, 11:25 AM	Ok Seeker, so what you are saying is that you could take a Bishop of the Church, one that is Lawful Good and a true believer, then bite him on his way to the orphange, and he will turn into a slavering bloodsucker that slurps down babies, just like that? And you say those people who are reading too much bad Ann rice, are the simplistic ones? Please. I love the way so many people who play this game, have a black and white view of alignments. Merely because someone gets infected with vampirism, does that mean their soul is gone? If so then seeker is right. If their soul is still there, then he is an idiot. Live by the black and white view, die by the black and white view. Play your game as you want but I find it crazy to think that a person wakes up a vampire, then they suddenly MUST start being evil. If that is so, then the whole drizzt crapola needs to be trashed as well. Of course, in this guys example he was turned to a Vampire first , then wanted to take Cleric? Now that is silly. DM should not allow a non cleric vampire join the church. If he was already a practicing cleric, I could see them either helping him back to humanity or using him as the perfect undead slayer. But no way allowing him in as an "off the street vapire", heh. I dont see what this DM did wrong, other then allowing the vampire to take cleric levels. That was his mistake.
Wyrd Bearer 09-14-05, 12:00 PM	Snide comments about good-aligned vampires and the DMs who allow them asides, lets go back to the original topic. EyelessBeholder, what god did your character worship prior to sudden case of hemophillia? Most resonable deities would probably accept you if you still adhear to their tenents. However, there are a few, such as Pelor for example, who are gigantic sticks-in-the-mud (or some other suitable dark and smelly place) and will do their best to be belligerant towards you and your new unfortunate condition. I recommend a change of faith, my friend, to a diety who is more inclined to accept you regardless of your condition. Evening Glory is a good choice, though flavour-wise, keep looking unless you lost a lover to the same vampire that allowed you to continue on. Wee Jas would understand, as would Vecna and Nerull. If you insist on remaining good, Olidamara could work and I believe that you could even venerate Kord, which would suite your inclination towards combat and strength (your levels in fighter). And you could even channel positive energy. I doubt that with your puny amount of HD and few levels of cleric you'd even be able to affect yourself, much less so any undead of an appropriate CR though, so why bother? Becoming a vampire should probably cause an alignment change, even I would agree with that. But since you were once a good person, and if you are adamanent to continue as one, you'll need to keep your new instincts in check. Like a human resisting the urge to kill his neighbor to claim his land, money and wife, you now must resist your urge to feed on sentient life if you wish to remain part of society. Feed on rats, pigs, birds, what have you, just don't feed on sentients, even if they are evil. A truely good person wouldn't go around killing people just because those people are evil (just as a truely well played paladin won't automatically smite every evil person she finds). Living this way over a long time will warrent an alignment change back towards neutral and eventually good again. But I will agree with many of the other posters and say that being a vampire is very much a detriment in of itself. I'd rather have those 8 HD that a vamp will lose out on and I'd rather not have all those weaknesses. So yes, go and ask that a cleric rez you so that you can advance as a normal character again. That, and since your DM has proven that s/he is incapable of being a good DM, I suggest finding a new one. DM backpeddling is a sign of incompetence.
Seeker95 09-14-05, 05:23 PM	Ok Seeker, so what you are saying is that you could take a Bishop of the Church, one that is Lawful Good and a true believer, then bite him on his way to the orphange, and he will turn into a slavering bloodsucker that slurps down babies, just like that?Yes. The bishop is dead. The undead body of the bishop is now a blood-thirsty, blood-sucking EVIL creature.
Wyrd Bearer 09-14-05, 08:19 PM	Yes. The bishop is dead. The undead body of the bishop is now a blood-thirsty, blood-sucking EVIL creature. Question: Has the bishop lost his soul (and thus his previous personality) upon becoming a vampire? I know that if he became a skeleton or a zombie he'd have moved on and become petitioner/disembodied soul/however else the afterlife works.
shift244 09-14-05, 08:53 PM	Question: Has the bishop lost his soul (and thus his previous personality) upon becoming a vampire? I know that if he became a skeleton or a zombie he'd have moved on and become petitioner/disembodied soul/however else the afterlife works. As I have never actually studied a D&D vampire before, I cannot say that s/he has.. neither would I agree if you claim s/he hasn't either. :D Sarcasm aside, the Evil alignment is more than just "my vampire attacks only evil humans". The curse of vamprism would arguably cause more corruption on the being/character (soul and what not, if it's still there). Liken this to the Helm of Opposing Alignment. The wearer changes to an opposing alignment. From then on REGARDLESS of s/he was BEFORE... s/he is now aligned as s/he IS. Vamprism, Lichdom and such can work in such a manner, with a more stringent result; instead of being opposing alignment, one becomes EVIL. Regardless. And there are many subtleties to the label evil as well, and you need not be of the "Stupid Evil" alignment [;)], which I am quite willing to make bets that at least some reading this thread has the thought cross his/her mind. :P An yeah.. you CAN become a cleric and cast divine spells without worshipping a named god, but then, I assumed (yah, I know it makes *! of u n me) that your DM would prefer you take to one. As said, living creatures can channel negative energy safely (though arguably, A->B doesn't necessarily mean B->A). I cannot recall reading anywhere, that undead cannot channel posisitve energy, nor that channeling positive energy would harm an undead-self. The ONLY argument you DM can put forth is "In this world of mine..." which, like Seeker said is going back on his words. Turn evil and "wreck havoc".
High Octane 09-14-05, 09:21 PM	Change gods. Wee Jas cares not for life or death. She is a merciful, beautiful woman. She hears your undead pleading. If you think that Wee Jas is merciful you have some serious head problems. She's the strict teacher who slaps your hand when you are 8 and misspell valetudinarian. Only a deity with a fetish for death. Oh and I agree about the Anne Rice and Joss Whedon comment.