Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Verkon 02-16-04, 01:57 AM	if ones where to make a more powerful version of this spell (current a lvl 6 spell) and make it a lvl 8 spell what do u thing the damage and save on being sick should be. As i c it the the damage on lvl 6 spell isn't high enough, 3d6 to anyone of lvl 11 or higher is going to easly recovered with rest and the save on being sicken isn't going to cause much of a problem i don't think. i think the 6 lvl spell sould in cur the same meg to ablity damage or something a little more threatening than 3d6 damage a day. so sould an 8 do the ablity damge like the 4th or should the damage just be up. rules for making spells of this nature aren't very clear
smrtgmp 02-16-04, 06:30 AM	I agree with you about the penalties for gaes not being all that prohibitive, at least not to high level charactes. I like your idea about ability damage. I would suggest something particularly debilitating, like str or con or maybe even both. Maybe you could choose the abilities to be affected, or perhaps something like 1d4 con damage plus 1d4 ability of your choice. That way, it would be detrimental to whatever class you cast it on.
mbfu3k 02-16-04, 03:19 PM	Keep in mind that Geas is a [Compulsion] spell, so the subject should work to complete the quest if at all possible, regardless of their wishes. The only time the negative effects should come into play are if the subject is prevented from working towards the goal you set by outside forces. Besides, if you make the penalties too debilitating, they will themselves end up preventing the subject from working towards the goal, resulting in a downward spiral, at which point the spell becomes just a long, drawn out death spell.
smrtgmp 02-16-04, 06:41 PM	Originally posted by mbfu3k Besides, if you make the penalties too debilitating, they will themselves end up preventing the subject from working towards the goal, resulting in a downward spiral, at which point the spell becomes just a long, drawn out death spell. good point
Seeker95 02-16-04, 07:34 PM	A higher level version of this spell might not be a bad idea, but I'm thinking in the opposite direction. Rather than a greater punishment for not working toward its completion, the greater quest could provide the means by which the quest can be completed. Perhaps it grants a boon to the recipient that is in effect only when the subject is working toward completion of the quest. Mayhap a +2 luck bonus to all rolls? (There are definitely other ideas). Not working toward the completion of the quest would still result in the penalties associated with the lower level version.
Raistlin84 02-16-04, 10:42 PM	I created a version of a more powerful geas in the game that I'm the DM, but I didn't write it on paper yet. It's lvl9, it has pretty much the same side effect, but the compulsion is very strong, so whoever is under the geas will do his best to do what he was asked to do. Also, if the character dies while he still has the geas, he rises as a slightly modified and weaker version of the curst template from monster of faerun. He doesn't have the cold and fire immunity or the spell resistance, but he keeps his turn immunity and regeneration. Nothing will be able to permanently kill the curst, except if he finishes the geas, then he will die and wont be able to be ressurected. As a curst, he wil be obsessed about completing the geas. With this spell, I can give a quest to my pcs, and since I'm not very fond of ressurection, the spell takes care of that too.
smrtgmp 02-17-04, 01:05 AM	Originally posted by Raistlin84 I created a version of a more powerful geas in the game that I'm the DM, but I didn't write it on paper yet. It's lvl9, it has pretty much the same side effect, but the compulsion is very strong, so whoever is under the geas will do his best to do what he was asked to do. Also, if the character dies while he still has the geas, he rises as a slightly modified and weaker version of the curst template from monster of faerun. He doesn't have the cold and fire immunity or the spell resistance, but he keeps his turn immunity and regeneration. Nothing will be able to permanently kill the curst, except if he finishes the geas, then he will die and wont be able to be ressurected. As a curst, he wil be obsessed about completing the geas. With this spell, I can give a quest to my pcs, and since I'm not very fond of ressurection, the spell takes care of that too. Thats nasty. I like it. A lot.
Verkon 02-17-04, 04:30 AM	the thing is that in a campiange i was playing in the DM let everyone play any alianment. i was playing a CG cleric and someonelse was playing an NE assine. the assine got po'ed at the Mayor and decided to off him. well the group figures out that he does it but the town and its guards are to stupid to keep the guy locked up. the rest of the party had already left town, but before we did i put him under a geas stating the he is to help with the investigation and to protect the town as best as he possible can until the end of his life. the player of the assine decides to take the damage and makes his fort save (easy for 18 lvl toon) so he is not sickened. here in lies the problem nowhere is the spell does it say that the target HAS to follow the Geas only that if he doesn't that he take 3d6 damage and becomes sick if he fails a fort save. hence the problem. the charactor ended up getting himself killed by picking on the trade post owner because the trading post owner happened to be a 8 th lvl paragon fighter (don't ask). so how should the spell be modified to make it actualy worth using.
Archangel 02-17-04, 08:08 AM	First you cannot give somebody a quest that lasts the rest of his life. You give him a specific goal and that's it. Secondly how can a lvl 18 characted die at a hands of a 8 lvl character? As for spell I would instead make it a lose 1 permanent constitution for every day not doing the quest! When the quest is done then all the constitution is returned!
Zherog 02-17-04, 10:51 AM	From the SRD, defining a [compulsion] effect: Compulsion: A compulsion spell forces the subject to act in some manner or changes the way her mind works. Some compulsion spells determine the subject’s actions or the effects on the subject, some compulsion spells allow you to determine the subject’s actions when you cast the spell, and others give you ongoing control over the subject. In other words, they have to complete the gaes. As has been stated already, the penalties should only come into play if some outside force prevents the completion of the quest. Seeker - I like your idea of a greater version that grants a small boon to the target as long as he is working towards the completion of the quest.
Seeker95 02-17-04, 02:47 PM	***************** Geas/Quest, Greater Enchantment (Compulsion) [Language-Dependent, Mind-Affecting] Level: Clr 8, Sor/Wiz 8 Casting Time: 1 hour Target: One living creature Saving Throw: None This spell functions similarly to geas/quest, except the target is also granted a boon by the caster. This boon takes the form of either: a +2 luck bonus to all rolls made in pursuit of the quest's completion; or, fast healing 1 At times in which the recipient is not working toward the completion of the quest, the boon does not apply. Should the target go more than 24 hours without working toward completion of the quest, s/he suffers the same penalties associated with geas/quest. A remove curse spell will not end a geas/quest, greater spell, although miracle and wish do. Sorcerers and wizards usually refer to this spell as greater geas, while clerics call the same spell greater quest. **************** Does it work? Is it broken? Should I move it to its own thread?
Zherog 02-17-04, 05:25 PM	I thought Wizards Can't Heal? :P :P :P I'd say it looks OK, but I'm not so good at balancing new spells. ;)
Beamup 02-17-04, 05:30 PM	Originally posted by Verkon [B]here in lies the problem nowhere is the spell does it say that the target HAS to follow the Geas only that if he doesn't that he take 3d6 damage and becomes sick if he fails a fort save. What about "The geased creature must follow the given instructions until the geas is completed?" Seems pretty explicit to me. And yes, that quote is from Lesser Geas, but Geas is explicitly stated to work the same way. Oh, and open-ended geases last only one day per caster level - they can't be lifelong.
Zherog 02-17-04, 05:34 PM	They can be if the target's life ends before the geas. ;)
Beamup 02-17-04, 07:21 PM	LOL... I mean you can't specify them as lifelong, of course... but that's an excellent example of how a smart recipient could subvert a geas. "Oh, I have to serve evil until I die? Well, my cleric friend's right here, so goodbye cruel world..."
Snédecor 07-16-04, 12:56 PM	Originally posted by Beamup [B]What about "The geased creature must follow the given instructions until the geas is completed?" Seems pretty explicit to me. And yes, that quote is from lesser geas, but geas is explicitly stated to work the same way.Sorry, but I have to question that point. Really, that quote is from lesser geas, but geas is not explicity stated to work the same way than lesser geas, it just states that it '(...) functions similarly [Equally? or in a like manner?] to lesser geas, except that it affects a creature of any HD and allows no saving throw'. Whether that means: 'It functions like lesser geas except that (...)' or not, I have my doubts. In fact, other spells families, like summon monster, uses the latter. We must remember that geas allows no saving throw and has no HD limits. The con is the casting time (10 minutes).Originally posted by ZherogCompulsion: A compulsion spell forces the subject to act in some manner or changes the way her mind works. Some compulsion spells determine the subject’s actions or the effects on the subject, some compulsion spells allow you to determine the subject’s actions when you cast the spell, and others give you ongoing control over the subject.If geas is interpreted this way, it still is forcing the subject to act in some manner, since the forcing-act is as a consequence of the menace of punishment of avoiding doing the service or refrain the caster has ordered. And this would be the compulsion itself. Probably I am wrong, but since I'm a DM I would like you to help me to put this point clear, in order to allow my players to use Geas/Quest accurately, because, probably I am the only one who is interpreting Geas this way. Sorry for my English. It is not my first language nor my second. No offence was intended. Thank you. :) Snédecor.