A interesting new spell combo [Archive] - Wizards Community

A interesting new spell combo [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Super Draco Whitewind
10-25-03, 12:28 AM It all started recently when i was running a few test battles between NPCs with a friend. a wizard of mine had cast maze to take a quick break. it so happened that he had dimensional lock prepared as well. (I assigned one non combat spell per level to simulate a real practical list chosen from day to day)
I then had an interesting idea. I cast dimensional lock on the area in which he was mazed. Now we had quite a problem. according to maze, you are forced into a extradimension maze. therefore, you are moved into a extradimensional space. now dimensional lock locks the place from extradimensional travel. from what it seems, the person can't reenter the prime material plane due to being unable to return due to the spell. so what happens? anyone got a good idea, because if what i think happens, this turns 2 spells into a gone for a day per level no save spell combo.
~Draco
Arachest
10-25-03, 02:54 AM Well it's a pretty nifty idea, except in the spell description of dimensional lock, summoned creatures return, through dimensional travel, at the end of the summing duration. In the maze spell it states that at the end of 10 min the mazed subject is forced back to the spot they were in. So base don those facts, after the maze spel wore off he would have no choice to return, though he could not summon anything or teleport away of perform any other dimensional travel. Though since the spell returns the recipient to the Exact spot he left unless there is an object occupying the spot, you could dig a big hole and let him fall, force cage the area he was and let him return to a prison. But that spell wouldn't trap him in a maze since it can't extend the duration of the maze spell, and when spells interact you must abide by the rules of both spells in question.
Eldren
10-25-03, 03:50 AM It's honestly a case of conflicting rules mechanics, as far as I can tell. Usually the way WotC resolves something like this is the same suggestion I'm going to make.

If Maze would normally return them upon the expiration of its duration, but Dimensional Lock keeps them from returning, I would rule that they would probably return, but they'd return in the Ethereal Plane (or the Border Ethereal, if you're using the "Deep Ethereal" option in the Manual of the Planes). They're on that site, but they aren't able to interact in the Material Plane until they find some way off of the Ethereal Plane.
Gingerbread Guy
10-25-03, 03:58 AM Hiho,

Well, I had a look at Dimensional Lock.. in the 3.5e PHB it specifically says that it bars travel via the Maze spell. So yes, you can lock someone in a Maze for DAYS on end. In theory, you can keep them there indefinetly, if you want to keep recasting it every week or two, and the target has no other means of escape [ie, Plane Shift, Wish or Miracle].

lol Thats just too funny. I can picture the poor victim at the Maze's exit, banging on a force wall. "Hello! Hello? Uhm.. I got to the exit.. ah.. aren't I supposed to go back now? Can anyone hear me? I think the Maze is broken.. Hello?"

Not goin' anywhere? Grab a snickers bar.

~Ginger
PhaedrusXY
10-25-03, 04:01 AM Umm... wow. That's nasty.
Seeker95
10-25-03, 08:58 AM Questions:

1. The maze disappears after 10 minutes. Where does that leave the person that was trapped within it?

2. How would dimensional lock stop the maze spell from ending?

I would think the most it could do is prevent the maze target from exiting before the spell expires.
Gingerbread Guy
10-25-03, 10:14 AM Hiho,

To answer your questions..

1. The target of the Maze spell is sent to an extradimensional space. Though the Maze disappears at the end of the spell, technically the extradimensional space doesn't. Thus, if the target remains after the Maze expires, the target is pretty much stuck in an extradimensional pocket, probably not unlike that created by a Rope Trick spell. I wonder how much air is in there..

2. The reason that Dimensional Lock prevents the victim from returning is that a) Maze returns you to the same place you were when you were taken, and b) Dimensional Lock prevents travel in a given area. Technically, returning from the maze is a form of planar travel which is specifically banned by Dimensional Lock. Thus, the victim would be unable to return to the place from which it was taken, and thus would be prevented from exiting the extradimensional space as usual. As I said, they could Plane Shift to another spot, or Wish/Miracle themselves out, but those are high-level spells, and I feel bad for anyone who doesn't have them. ^_^

~Ginger
Aurelius
10-25-03, 10:25 AM If i recall correctly, the Manual of the Planes, somewhere in the chapter on the astral plane, says that anyone who for some reason cannot go anywhere else while using transportation effects, go to the astral plane. I havent been able to find any ideas for when that would happen, but this seems to me a pretty logical place to apply that rule. Also, aren't extradimensional spaces created by the spell? If that is the case, i would surely rule that they disappear when the spell ends.

Humbly
Aurelius
DarkMerlin12
10-25-03, 05:55 PM Hmm...interesting.

Ignoring the whole astral plane thing (which is probably the most valid solution presented), I would say that it would work. It essentially amounts to a poor man's Imprisonment, without a save.
Shade
10-27-03, 09:10 AM Originally posted by Gingerbread Guy
Hiho,

To answer your questions..

1. The target of the Maze spell is sent to an extradimensional space. Though the Maze disappears at the end of the spell, technically the extradimensional space doesn't. Thus, if the target remains after the Maze expires, the target is pretty much stuck in an extradimensional pocket, probably not unlike that created by a Rope Trick spell. I wonder how much air is in there..

First, I'm at work and only have access to a 3.0 PHB. But if the spell description for Maze did not change in 3.5, it begins:

"You *conjure up* and extradimensional labyrinth...." If this is true in 3.5, the spell does not send the target to a preexisting extradimensional space, but instead creates such a space itself and sends the target there. That is an important difference -- if true, when the Maze spell ends, the extradimensional space vanishes and the target reappears at the point at which he entered the Maze. The dimensional lock would *only* prevent the target of the Maze from exiting the Maze for the duration of the Maze spell. Thereafter, there is no extra-dimensional space to lock and the target would reappear as normal.

Someone please verify that the opening phrase of the 3.5 spell description for Maze is the same as 3.0.

Shade
DemonMonkeyBoy
10-27-03, 03:31 PM :b: Because someone asked so here it is

Maze
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
You banish the subject into an extradimensional labyrinth of force planes. Each round on its turn, it may attempt a DC 20 Intelligence check to escape the labyrinth as a full-round action. If the subject doesn’t escape, the maze disappears after 10 minutes, forcing the subject to leave.
On escaping or leaving the maze, the subject reappears where it had been when the maze spell was cast. If this location is filled with a solid object, the subject appears in the nearest open space. Spells and abilities that move a creature within a plane, such as teleport and dimension door, do not help a creature escape a maze spell, although a plane shift spell allows it to exit to whatever plane is designated in that spell. Minotaurs are not affected by this spell.

Dimensional Lock
Abjuration
Level: Clr 8, Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a point in space
Duration: One day/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
You create a shimmering emerald barrier that completely blocks extradimensional travel. Forms of movement barred include astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar spell-like or psionic abilities. Once dimensional lock is in place, extradimensional travel into or out of the area is not possible.
A dimensional lock does not interfere with the movement of creatures already in ethereal or astral form when the spell is cast, nor does it block extradimensional perception or attack forms. Also, the spell does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell.
tarkin
10-27-03, 03:37 PM I would rule that the "If this location is filled with a solid object, the subject appears in the nearest open space" would be in affect.

When the maze ends, it would re-direct you to a spot not blocked by the Dim Lock, just as if someone had put a solid object where you should have appeared.
Valoy_Muniz
10-27-03, 03:48 PM I would rule that the spot counts as a filled spot.
Shade
10-27-03, 06:52 PM Well, I see the first sentence of Maze was changed for 3.5. In that case, I would simply agree with Tarkin's ruling. The area of effect of the Dim. Lock is blocked space and when Maze ends it simply deposits the target of the maze at the edge of the AoE of the Dim. Lock.

Shade
Nightingale 7
10-27-03, 07:49 PM Yes,I agree with Tarkin too.The wording in the Dim Lock spell should mean that a creature can't be affected by Maze while standing in a place warded by Dim Lock.
Super Draco Whitewind
10-28-03, 12:22 AM areas blocked and spells in effect are two completely different things. going by core rules, it appears that they'd be stuck for one day per level. also, just because a spell effect ends doesn't mean they get out for free. if a bag of holding is dispelled, and thus the extradimensional area temporarily does not exist, the items would simply be stuck in nothingneess. it clearly states dimensional travel is impossible, therefore, even if the space permenantly disappears, they STILL cannot return to the current plane due to dimensional travel being blocked
good ideas and facts are two different things people.
~Draco
Pathanus
10-28-03, 12:31 AM If the dimentional lock is only 20ft emination... does that affect other planes besides the material?

If the person is mazed, how large is the extra dimentional space that they are trapped in? (ie. larger than a 20 foot emination, so plane shift is possible)

Can someone Shapechange into a minotaur and become free?

Can someone Dispel a maze spell from inside the maze?

If you have shadow pouce (shadowlord ability) can you full attack after being hit with a maze spell? (if there was someone there)

Is there a spoon?

Path
He Who Shall Not Be Named
10-28-03, 03:24 AM You are all making this way too complicated.

I'll be the wiz, and I'm doing this to, we'll say a 12th level human fighter, for simplicity, so here goes:

Either I cast maze, and he goes to the maze. Then I can't cast dim lock, because it affects a 20 ft space on the plane you're on. And that 20 ft space only exists on that plane (and the ethereal, if you are on the material when you cast it). Since the fighter's already off the plane, dim lock wouldn't work on him.

Or I cast dim lock first, but then, as it specifically states in dim lock, it prevents my maze from even taking effect in the first place.

So either way, the only way it would even happen to come up is if you mazed yourself, then dim locked. But then you can just step out of the part of the maze that is dim locked (it's only a 20 ft radius) and find your way out, teleport, etc.
Allart
10-28-03, 05:42 AM Either I cast maze, and he goes to the maze. Then I can't cast dim lock, because it affects a 20 ft space on the plane you're on. And that 20 ft space only exists on that plane (and the ethereal, if you are on the material when you cast it). Since the fighter's already off the plane, dim lock wouldn't work on him

The problem is that dim lock prevents extradimensional travel "into or out of the area". So technically, the fighter would not be able to return to the affected place...

I think that Tarkin's ruling is the most reasonable, though the "stuck in the astral" solution would be a lot more interesting (and would be the one I would use, as a DM).
Super Draco Whitewind
10-28-03, 01:55 PM Did my post MOVE?
okay, something weird just happened.
somehow, this post got sent to the wrong thread
bizarre.
~Draco
Bunga
10-28-03, 04:38 PM I'd stick them in the Astral Plane. Thats what the Manual of the Planes says to do at least. And its more fun.
Seeker95
10-28-03, 05:07 PM The Manual of the Planes does not say to stick them on the Astral Plane. The Manual of the Planes describes what happens to the planar traveller if they cannot go anywhere else. It has not yet been decided that Maze + Dimensional Lock creates such a condition.

I do, however, agree that it would be more fun.

I would also be interested in getting the Sage's answer on this. He is chatting tonight!
Tehril
10-28-03, 07:08 PM The only problem is that a Dimension Locked area is different from an area occupied by a solid object.

A solid object is earth, rock, a lrage dragon, a golem, statue, house etc... something physical.

Dimensional Lock is NOT a physical object... but a magical barring of an area.

The conditions of the shunting are not met. This isn't being too literal... it isn't trying to undermine the spirit of the spell.

The point of the creature being shunted off if a physical object is present in that spot is to prevent the PC's from Mazing a BBEG, then zapping up a large, sealed container of water/acid/liquid magma filled with mutant sea bass with DR 100 against Fire damage... and letting the happless BBEG get roasted with an insta kill/no save spell.

Basically, it is there to prevent the creature from becoming trapped in a solid object or creature... probably a highly dangerous if not an out right deadly situation. Imagine being brought back and trapped in a stone? Um... insta kill.

I don't know what to suggest, I just know the conditions and intent of the text are not met.
Varrik
10-28-03, 09:07 PM Originally posted by Tehril
The only problem is that a Dimension Locked area is different from an area occupied by a solid object.

The point of the creature being shunted off if a physical object is present in that spot is to prevent the PC's from Mazing a BBEG, then zapping up a large, sealed container of water/acid/liquid magma filled with mutant sea bass with DR 100 against Fire damage... and letting the happless BBEG get roasted with an insta kill/no save spell.

Basically, it is there to prevent the creature from becoming trapped in a solid object or creature... probably a highly dangerous if not an out right deadly situation. Imagine being brought back and trapped in a stone? Um... insta kill.

I don't know what to suggest, I just know the conditions and intent of the text are not met.

Now I think your being unreasonable.

1) Technically yes, a solid object is not the same as a magical effect. But. . . That is nit-picking. The Dim Lock creates an area that the subject can not return to, which is similar in effect to the sudden placement of a solid object in that space. How would you rule then on a Force Block occupying that space. Technically it is not a solid object, but it occupies the space and should prevent returning.

2) You are reading your own interpretation into the creator's intent when you say the purpose of the wording is to prevent the PC's from using the Maze Spell to kill a BBEG. How do you know? It isn't spelled out anywhere.

Honestly, step back a moment, and you'll see Tarkin's interpretation is the most valid. Though the Astral option, isn't a bad runner up for any DM that wants to run seperate adventures for his PCs 'cause he's scattered them all over the known multi-verse.
Seeker95
10-28-03, 09:18 PM The Sage answered this (Maze + Dimensional Lock) in the Chat tonight. Dabus will probably have the answers posted by morning.

The person in the maze will reappear at the closest available spot not protected by the lock.

And here is why: the lock is placed on an area. Assuming the maze has already gone off, the person is unaffected by the lock since he is no longer in that area. The duration of maze ends, and the person returns to where he came from, or the closest available space that can support him. The lock simply prevents anyone from using trans-dimensional/etc. travel to or from that area.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Super Draco Whitewind 10-25-03, 12:28 AM	It all started recently when i was running a few test battles between NPCs with a friend. a wizard of mine had cast maze to take a quick break. it so happened that he had dimensional lock prepared as well. (I assigned one non combat spell per level to simulate a real practical list chosen from day to day) I then had an interesting idea. I cast dimensional lock on the area in which he was mazed. Now we had quite a problem. according to maze, you are forced into a extradimension maze. therefore, you are moved into a extradimensional space. now dimensional lock locks the place from extradimensional travel. from what it seems, the person can't reenter the prime material plane due to being unable to return due to the spell. so what happens? anyone got a good idea, because if what i think happens, this turns 2 spells into a gone for a day per level no save spell combo. ~Draco
Arachest 10-25-03, 02:54 AM	Well it's a pretty nifty idea, except in the spell description of dimensional lock, summoned creatures return, through dimensional travel, at the end of the summing duration. In the maze spell it states that at the end of 10 min the mazed subject is forced back to the spot they were in. So base don those facts, after the maze spel wore off he would have no choice to return, though he could not summon anything or teleport away of perform any other dimensional travel. Though since the spell returns the recipient to the Exact spot he left unless there is an object occupying the spot, you could dig a big hole and let him fall, force cage the area he was and let him return to a prison. But that spell wouldn't trap him in a maze since it can't extend the duration of the maze spell, and when spells interact you must abide by the rules of both spells in question.
Eldren 10-25-03, 03:50 AM	It's honestly a case of conflicting rules mechanics, as far as I can tell. Usually the way WotC resolves something like this is the same suggestion I'm going to make. If Maze would normally return them upon the expiration of its duration, but Dimensional Lock keeps them from returning, I would rule that they would probably return, but they'd return in the Ethereal Plane (or the Border Ethereal, if you're using the "Deep Ethereal" option in the Manual of the Planes). They're on that site, but they aren't able to interact in the Material Plane until they find some way off of the Ethereal Plane.
Gingerbread Guy 10-25-03, 03:58 AM	Hiho, Well, I had a look at Dimensional Lock.. in the 3.5e PHB it specifically says that it bars travel via the Maze spell. So yes, you can lock someone in a Maze for DAYS on end. In theory, you can keep them there indefinetly, if you want to keep recasting it every week or two, and the target has no other means of escape [ie, Plane Shift, Wish or Miracle]. lol Thats just too funny. I can picture the poor victim at the Maze's exit, banging on a force wall. "Hello! Hello? Uhm.. I got to the exit.. ah.. aren't I supposed to go back now? Can anyone hear me? I think the Maze is broken.. Hello?" Not goin' anywhere? Grab a snickers bar. ~Ginger
PhaedrusXY 10-25-03, 04:01 AM	Umm... wow. That's nasty.
Seeker95 10-25-03, 08:58 AM	Questions: 1. The maze disappears after 10 minutes. Where does that leave the person that was trapped within it? 2. How would dimensional lock stop the maze spell from ending? I would think the most it could do is prevent the maze target from exiting before the spell expires.
Gingerbread Guy 10-25-03, 10:14 AM	Hiho, To answer your questions.. 1. The target of the Maze spell is sent to an extradimensional space. Though the Maze disappears at the end of the spell, technically the extradimensional space doesn't. Thus, if the target remains after the Maze expires, the target is pretty much stuck in an extradimensional pocket, probably not unlike that created by a Rope Trick spell. I wonder how much air is in there.. 2. The reason that Dimensional Lock prevents the victim from returning is that a) Maze returns you to the same place you were when you were taken, and b) Dimensional Lock prevents travel in a given area. Technically, returning from the maze is a form of planar travel which is specifically banned by Dimensional Lock. Thus, the victim would be unable to return to the place from which it was taken, and thus would be prevented from exiting the extradimensional space as usual. As I said, they could Plane Shift to another spot, or Wish/Miracle themselves out, but those are high-level spells, and I feel bad for anyone who doesn't have them. ^_^ ~Ginger
Aurelius 10-25-03, 10:25 AM	If i recall correctly, the Manual of the Planes, somewhere in the chapter on the astral plane, says that anyone who for some reason cannot go anywhere else while using transportation effects, go to the astral plane. I havent been able to find any ideas for when that would happen, but this seems to me a pretty logical place to apply that rule. Also, aren't extradimensional spaces created by the spell? If that is the case, i would surely rule that they disappear when the spell ends. Humbly Aurelius
DarkMerlin12 10-25-03, 05:55 PM	Hmm...interesting. Ignoring the whole astral plane thing (which is probably the most valid solution presented), I would say that it would work. It essentially amounts to a poor man's Imprisonment, without a save.
Shade 10-27-03, 09:10 AM	Originally posted by Gingerbread Guy Hiho, To answer your questions.. 1. The target of the Maze spell is sent to an extradimensional space. Though the Maze disappears at the end of the spell, technically the extradimensional space doesn't. Thus, if the target remains after the Maze expires, the target is pretty much stuck in an extradimensional pocket, probably not unlike that created by a Rope Trick spell. I wonder how much air is in there.. First, I'm at work and only have access to a 3.0 PHB. But if the spell description for Maze did not change in 3.5, it begins: "You conjure up and extradimensional labyrinth...." If this is true in 3.5, the spell does not send the target to a preexisting extradimensional space, but instead creates such a space itself and sends the target there. That is an important difference -- if true, when the Maze spell ends, the extradimensional space vanishes and the target reappears at the point at which he entered the Maze. The dimensional lock would only prevent the target of the Maze from exiting the Maze for the duration of the Maze spell. Thereafter, there is no extra-dimensional space to lock and the target would reappear as normal. Someone please verify that the opening phrase of the 3.5 spell description for Maze is the same as 3.0. Shade
DemonMonkeyBoy 10-27-03, 03:31 PM	:b: Because someone asked so here it is Maze Conjuration (Teleportation) Level: Sor/Wiz 8 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One creature Duration: See text Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes You banish the subject into an extradimensional labyrinth of force planes. Each round on its turn, it may attempt a DC 20 Intelligence check to escape the labyrinth as a full-round action. If the subject doesn’t escape, the maze disappears after 10 minutes, forcing the subject to leave. On escaping or leaving the maze, the subject reappears where it had been when the maze spell was cast. If this location is filled with a solid object, the subject appears in the nearest open space. Spells and abilities that move a creature within a plane, such as teleport and dimension door, do not help a creature escape a maze spell, although a plane shift spell allows it to exit to whatever plane is designated in that spell. Minotaurs are not affected by this spell. Dimensional Lock Abjuration Level: Clr 8, Sor/Wiz 8 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Area: 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a point in space Duration: One day/level Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes You create a shimmering emerald barrier that completely blocks extradimensional travel. Forms of movement barred include astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar spell-like or psionic abilities. Once dimensional lock is in place, extradimensional travel into or out of the area is not possible. A dimensional lock does not interfere with the movement of creatures already in ethereal or astral form when the spell is cast, nor does it block extradimensional perception or attack forms. Also, the spell does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell.
tarkin 10-27-03, 03:37 PM	I would rule that the "If this location is filled with a solid object, the subject appears in the nearest open space" would be in affect. When the maze ends, it would re-direct you to a spot not blocked by the Dim Lock, just as if someone had put a solid object where you should have appeared.
Valoy_Muniz 10-27-03, 03:48 PM	I would rule that the spot counts as a filled spot.
Shade 10-27-03, 06:52 PM	Well, I see the first sentence of Maze was changed for 3.5. In that case, I would simply agree with Tarkin's ruling. The area of effect of the Dim. Lock is blocked space and when Maze ends it simply deposits the target of the maze at the edge of the AoE of the Dim. Lock. Shade
Nightingale 7 10-27-03, 07:49 PM	Yes,I agree with Tarkin too.The wording in the Dim Lock spell should mean that a creature can't be affected by Maze while standing in a place warded by Dim Lock.
Super Draco Whitewind 10-28-03, 12:22 AM	areas blocked and spells in effect are two completely different things. going by core rules, it appears that they'd be stuck for one day per level. also, just because a spell effect ends doesn't mean they get out for free. if a bag of holding is dispelled, and thus the extradimensional area temporarily does not exist, the items would simply be stuck in nothingneess. it clearly states dimensional travel is impossible, therefore, even if the space permenantly disappears, they STILL cannot return to the current plane due to dimensional travel being blocked good ideas and facts are two different things people. ~Draco
Pathanus 10-28-03, 12:31 AM	If the dimentional lock is only 20ft emination... does that affect other planes besides the material? If the person is mazed, how large is the extra dimentional space that they are trapped in? (ie. larger than a 20 foot emination, so plane shift is possible) Can someone Shapechange into a minotaur and become free? Can someone Dispel a maze spell from inside the maze? If you have shadow pouce (shadowlord ability) can you full attack after being hit with a maze spell? (if there was someone there) Is there a spoon? Path
He Who Shall Not Be Named 10-28-03, 03:24 AM	You are all making this way too complicated. I'll be the wiz, and I'm doing this to, we'll say a 12th level human fighter, for simplicity, so here goes: Either I cast maze, and he goes to the maze. Then I can't cast dim lock, because it affects a 20 ft space on the plane you're on. And that 20 ft space only exists on that plane (and the ethereal, if you are on the material when you cast it). Since the fighter's already off the plane, dim lock wouldn't work on him. Or I cast dim lock first, but then, as it specifically states in dim lock, it prevents my maze from even taking effect in the first place. So either way, the only way it would even happen to come up is if you mazed yourself, then dim locked. But then you can just step out of the part of the maze that is dim locked (it's only a 20 ft radius) and find your way out, teleport, etc.
Allart 10-28-03, 05:42 AM	Either I cast maze, and he goes to the maze. Then I can't cast dim lock, because it affects a 20 ft space on the plane you're on. And that 20 ft space only exists on that plane (and the ethereal, if you are on the material when you cast it). Since the fighter's already off the plane, dim lock wouldn't work on him The problem is that dim lock prevents extradimensional travel "into or out of the area". So technically, the fighter would not be able to return to the affected place... I think that Tarkin's ruling is the most reasonable, though the "stuck in the astral" solution would be a lot more interesting (and would be the one I would use, as a DM).
Super Draco Whitewind 10-28-03, 01:55 PM	Did my post MOVE? okay, something weird just happened. somehow, this post got sent to the wrong thread bizarre. ~Draco
Bunga 10-28-03, 04:38 PM	I'd stick them in the Astral Plane. Thats what the Manual of the Planes says to do at least. And its more fun.
Seeker95 10-28-03, 05:07 PM	The Manual of the Planes does not say to stick them on the Astral Plane. The Manual of the Planes describes what happens to the planar traveller if they cannot go anywhere else. It has not yet been decided that Maze + Dimensional Lock creates such a condition. I do, however, agree that it would be more fun. I would also be interested in getting the Sage's answer on this. He is chatting tonight!
Tehril 10-28-03, 07:08 PM	The only problem is that a Dimension Locked area is different from an area occupied by a solid object. A solid object is earth, rock, a lrage dragon, a golem, statue, house etc... something physical. Dimensional Lock is NOT a physical object... but a magical barring of an area. The conditions of the shunting are not met. This isn't being too literal... it isn't trying to undermine the spirit of the spell. The point of the creature being shunted off if a physical object is present in that spot is to prevent the PC's from Mazing a BBEG, then zapping up a large, sealed container of water/acid/liquid magma filled with mutant sea bass with DR 100 against Fire damage... and letting the happless BBEG get roasted with an insta kill/no save spell. Basically, it is there to prevent the creature from becoming trapped in a solid object or creature... probably a highly dangerous if not an out right deadly situation. Imagine being brought back and trapped in a stone? Um... insta kill. I don't know what to suggest, I just know the conditions and intent of the text are not met.
Varrik 10-28-03, 09:07 PM	Originally posted by Tehril The only problem is that a Dimension Locked area is different from an area occupied by a solid object. The point of the creature being shunted off if a physical object is present in that spot is to prevent the PC's from Mazing a BBEG, then zapping up a large, sealed container of water/acid/liquid magma filled with mutant sea bass with DR 100 against Fire damage... and letting the happless BBEG get roasted with an insta kill/no save spell. Basically, it is there to prevent the creature from becoming trapped in a solid object or creature... probably a highly dangerous if not an out right deadly situation. Imagine being brought back and trapped in a stone? Um... insta kill. I don't know what to suggest, I just know the conditions and intent of the text are not met. Now I think your being unreasonable. 1) Technically yes, a solid object is not the same as a magical effect. But. . . That is nit-picking. The Dim Lock creates an area that the subject can not return to, which is similar in effect to the sudden placement of a solid object in that space. How would you rule then on a Force Block occupying that space. Technically it is not a solid object, but it occupies the space and should prevent returning. 2) You are reading your own interpretation into the creator's intent when you say the purpose of the wording is to prevent the PC's from using the Maze Spell to kill a BBEG. How do you know? It isn't spelled out anywhere. Honestly, step back a moment, and you'll see Tarkin's interpretation is the most valid. Though the Astral option, isn't a bad runner up for any DM that wants to run seperate adventures for his PCs 'cause he's scattered them all over the known multi-verse.
Seeker95 10-28-03, 09:18 PM	The Sage answered this (Maze + Dimensional Lock) in the Chat tonight. Dabus will probably have the answers posted by morning. The person in the maze will reappear at the closest available spot not protected by the lock. And here is why: the lock is placed on an area. Assuming the maze has already gone off, the person is unaffected by the lock since he is no longer in that area. The duration of maze ends, and the person returns to where he came from, or the closest available space that can support him. The lock simply prevents anyone from using trans-dimensional/etc. travel to or from that area.