A little bit of water goes a long way... [Archive] - Wizards Community

A little bit of water goes a long way... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The Vorpal Tribble
12-11-05, 09:22 PM Alright, I was looking at the Fabricate spell and a certain part of it gave me an idea.

"You convert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material."

Ok, so I'm thinking, can you take a river, a pool, something like that, and bring forth just tons of blue ice (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040911a&page=5) as mentioned in Frostburn? The ice is not magical in any way, and is merely found in some icebergs. So basically this stuff is only made of water.

The spell also says "If you work with a mineral, the target is reduced to 1 cubic foot per level instead of 10 cubic feet."

However, water is not a mineral, so its 10 cubic feet per level for this stuff.

As far as I can tell, this is pretty straightforward and a mage could get pretty derned rich.
cwslyclgh
12-11-05, 09:47 PM personaly I would count water as a mineral in this regard... the basis of this is the polymoprh any objects spell, when PaO speaks of mineral it is speaking of the three "kingdoms" of animal, vegetable, mineral... and it is the only other place in the rules where we see mineral mentioned as a term... there for I think that fabricate should be read in the same way, ie if it is not animal or vegetable it should be considered mineral.

another problem that I see is that "Blue Ice" is naturaly occuring, it is not man made, fabricate lets ypu turn raw materials into finished products, blue ice is not a product and I would be leery of allowing it in my game.
The Vorpal Tribble
12-11-05, 09:57 PM another problem that I see is that "Blue Ice" is naturaly occuring, it is not man made, fabricate lets ypu turn raw materials into finished products, blue ice is not a product and I would be leery of allowing it in my game.
"You convert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material."

You could try to convert the water into a blue-ice sculpture of really poor quality, or simply make it into a large round mirror or some such. Then you can melt it and use it.
cwslyclgh
12-11-05, 10:08 PM You could try to convert the water into a blue-ice sculpture of really poor quality, or simply make it into a large round mirror or some such. Then you can melt it and use it. that would be more reasonable, however there are still problems with your idea... the most obvious of which is that no place in the frostburn book does it say that blue-ice is frozen water. Found deep in glaciers ect. yes, appears Identicle to normal ice yes, however the fact that it is a secial material that has those special qualities would lead me to believe that normal water ice it is not.
The Vorpal Tribble
12-11-05, 10:16 PM Well, what would be able to form in a solid block of ice besides more ice? Blue ice is just some pseudo-fantasy substance that probably exists like diamonds do. Water compressed for millenia that after awhile becomes so dense that it forms almost a metal.

In fact... making coal into diamonds has potential... :plotting:
cwslyclgh
12-11-05, 10:23 PM I was actually going to use diamonds in my rebuttal, how ironic.

saying that because it is found in solid water ice blue-ice has to be made of water is like saying that because they are found in solid stone a diamond has to be made of the same substances of the stone around them. I would not let a spell caster use fabricate to turn a puddle of molten stone into a diamond any more then I would allow them to turn water into blue-ice...
Horatio Hornblower
12-11-05, 10:25 PM "You convert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material."

I think "material" into "product" of same "material" is the key. Notice the words used.

You could take blue ice and make a shield or armor or a weapon or whatever.

You could not turn water into blue ice because that would be material into a dfferent material. Blue ice is not a product it is a material. Fabricate does not change a material into a different material.

Good try.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Vorpal Tribble 12-11-05, 09:22 PM	Alright, I was looking at the Fabricate spell and a certain part of it gave me an idea. "You convert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material." Ok, so I'm thinking, can you take a river, a pool, something like that, and bring forth just tons of blue ice (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040911a&page=5) as mentioned in Frostburn? The ice is not magical in any way, and is merely found in some icebergs. So basically this stuff is only made of water. The spell also says "If you work with a mineral, the target is reduced to 1 cubic foot per level instead of 10 cubic feet." However, water is not a mineral, so its 10 cubic feet per level for this stuff. As far as I can tell, this is pretty straightforward and a mage could get pretty derned rich.
cwslyclgh 12-11-05, 09:47 PM	personaly I would count water as a mineral in this regard... the basis of this is the polymoprh any objects spell, when PaO speaks of mineral it is speaking of the three "kingdoms" of animal, vegetable, mineral... and it is the only other place in the rules where we see mineral mentioned as a term... there for I think that fabricate should be read in the same way, ie if it is not animal or vegetable it should be considered mineral. another problem that I see is that "Blue Ice" is naturaly occuring, it is not man made, fabricate lets ypu turn raw materials into finished products, blue ice is not a product and I would be leery of allowing it in my game.
The Vorpal Tribble 12-11-05, 09:57 PM	another problem that I see is that "Blue Ice" is naturaly occuring, it is not man made, fabricate lets ypu turn raw materials into finished products, blue ice is not a product and I would be leery of allowing it in my game. "You convert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material." You could try to convert the water into a blue-ice sculpture of really poor quality, or simply make it into a large round mirror or some such. Then you can melt it and use it.
cwslyclgh 12-11-05, 10:08 PM	You could try to convert the water into a blue-ice sculpture of really poor quality, or simply make it into a large round mirror or some such. Then you can melt it and use it. that would be more reasonable, however there are still problems with your idea... the most obvious of which is that no place in the frostburn book does it say that blue-ice is frozen water. Found deep in glaciers ect. yes, appears Identicle to normal ice yes, however the fact that it is a secial material that has those special qualities would lead me to believe that normal water ice it is not.
The Vorpal Tribble 12-11-05, 10:16 PM	Well, what would be able to form in a solid block of ice besides more ice? Blue ice is just some pseudo-fantasy substance that probably exists like diamonds do. Water compressed for millenia that after awhile becomes so dense that it forms almost a metal. In fact... making coal into diamonds has potential... :plotting:
cwslyclgh 12-11-05, 10:23 PM	I was actually going to use diamonds in my rebuttal, how ironic. saying that because it is found in solid water ice blue-ice has to be made of water is like saying that because they are found in solid stone a diamond has to be made of the same substances of the stone around them. I would not let a spell caster use fabricate to turn a puddle of molten stone into a diamond any more then I would allow them to turn water into blue-ice...
Horatio Hornblower 12-11-05, 10:25 PM	"You convert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material." I think "material" into "product" of same "material" is the key. Notice the words used. You could take blue ice and make a shield or armor or a weapon or whatever. You could not turn water into blue ice because that would be material into a dfferent material. Blue ice is not a product it is a material. Fabricate does not change a material into a different material. Good try.