Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ainaelin 05-26-04, 05:43 PM	Hi! I have devised a new spell, and I would like to have advice and counsel about it... Vampiric Protection Field Necromancy Level : Sor/Wiz 8 Components : V, S, M Casting Time : 1 standard action Range : personal Target : you Duration : 1 round/level (D) Saving Throw : None Spell Resistance : Yes A shroud of dark grey dust floats all around the caster and absorbs the energy of all physical blows that hit him, redirecting the energy towards the attacker and healing the caster of the same amount of damage. This gives the caster an effective Damage Reduction of 1 per caster level against all physical attacks that can not be countered by material, magic or alignment. All damage thus reduced is substracted from the attacker's HP total (a Negative Energy attack) and the caster is then healed of the same amount of HP (Positive Energy). The caster cannot gain more HP than his normal maximum HP total. If cast by an Undead caster, the spell heals him with Negative Energy. Energy attacks (like Fireball) are not reduced by this spell, nor are spells or effects that do not deal HP damage. The spell has no effect against Undead attackers (ie. they are neither harmed nor healed by the energy of the Field, and the caster is not protected or healed from their blows). Material Component : a mix of Mithral powder and bones crushed to dust, worth 250 GP, that the caster sprinkles around him while chanting the incantation. What do you think? Overpowered? Underpowered? Some broken material here? I am open to all constructive criticism... ;)
Seeker95 05-26-04, 10:11 PM	I like the concept. I only wonder... isn't this just the reverse of vampiric touch? If so (conceptually), I would work it to be more mechanically identical to that one, and slap two levels on it. However, the "attacks heal you" approach brings to mind the super power of Sebastian Shaw, King of the Hellfire Club in X-Men lore. Hit him, and he grows stronger. Hit him really hard, and he grows really strong. An 8th level spell might be a field that causes all physcial damage to turn into temporary hit points, ignoring the "drain your opponent" factor altogether. So, I guess what I'm saying is... As written, I think it could be closer in nature to vampiric touch both mechanically and in level. And... As conceived, I could see an 8th level spell as written without the vampiric nature at all. Instead of a actual healing, it is a kinetic transformation that grants temporary hit points. One spell presented, two derived from the comments.
bitnine 05-26-04, 10:34 PM	I might consider a fire shield-type vampiric approach to the spell; for example, every strike against the caster deals 2d6 damage to the attacker and gives the caster a similar number of temporary hit points. Keep the 1 round/level (D) duration, drop the spell level to 7th, and I think you've got a bit more streamlined version while performing the same function.
Vanigo 05-27-04, 12:56 AM	It's a good idea, but much too powerful. I'd go with something more like bitnine's suggestion.
Ainaelin 05-27-04, 04:50 AM	Thanks for the insight, guys. :) What I wanted was actually a spell that dealt damage to the attacker according to the strength of the blow and healed the caster at the same time. I could do with Temporary HP, even though it's not actually healing, since it's in the line with a protective field, as Seeker95 suggested... (thanks again ;) ) Also I did not want something that protects completely the caster against all physical damage, hence the Damage Reduction according to CL. At that level, a lot of monsters and fighting PCs deal in average more damage than 15, so I thought that would not be that overpowered, even if it still a very good protection... I'm going to make a few changes to the spell now. Vampiric Protection Field Necromancy Level : Sor/Wiz 8 Components : V, S, M Casting Time : 1 standard action Range : personal Target : you Duration : 1 round/level (D) Saving Throw : None Spell Resistance : Yes A shroud of dark grey dust floats all around the caster and absorbs the energy of all physical blows that hit him, redirecting the energy towards the attacker and providing the caster with the same amount of Temporary Hit Points. This gives the caster an effective Damage Reduction of 1 per caster level against all physical attacks, which can only be countered by Darkwood (for instance, a 15th-level caster would have a DR 15/Darkwood). All damage thus reduced is substracted from the attacker's HP total (a Negative Energy attack) and added to the caster as Temporary HP to a maximum of twice the caster level. Energy attacks (like Fireball) are not reduced by this spell, nor are spells or effects that do not deal HP damage. The spell has no effect against Undead attackers (ie. they are neither harmed nor healed by the Negative Energy of the Field, and the caster is not protected and does not gain Temporaty HP from their blows). Spell Resistance is tested at the first blow. If the attacker resists, he is not affected by the spell and can attack normallyeffective against other attackers. Material Component : a mix of Mithral powder and bones crushed to dust, worth 250 GP, that the caster sprinkles around him while chanting the incantation. (Edit, added the maximum Temp. HP clause, and the Spell Resistance sentence.) (Edit 2 : added the Darkwood as Material to overcome the DR)
Ainaelin 05-28-04, 05:19 AM	*/UP\* :angel: What to you guys think of it now?
Seeker95 05-28-04, 08:25 AM	I now think it *underpowered* (if I'm reading it properly). Does it: 1. Turn 1 hit point (per attack) back upon the attacker and grant 1 temporary hit point (per attack) to the target? 2. Reduce each attack by 1 and then return the remaining damage to the attacker and grant an equal number of temporary hit points to the target? If #1, this is definitely *not* an 8th level spell. Perhaps 3rd. If #2, why the DR at all? What is the incentive on decreasing the benefit of the spell to the caster? Perhaps, if you remove the DR reference entirely, it will be much clearer in both function and mechanics.
tarkin 05-28-04, 10:19 AM	1 PER CASTER LEVEL> At 8th level, that is at least DR 15. But DR15/- is too powerfull. It needs something that overcomes the DR. Vampiric Touch only works if you physically touch the victim, but this is an eigth level spell so making it not work if your opponent has a weapon is silly. My Favorite is the triple threat: Magic AND Alignment AND material For this how about Evil and Magic and silver. So only a magic weapon made of silver that is Unholy or in the hands of an extraplanar evil being will ignore your spell. (And also undead. Do you really think Demons should be affected anyway?
Kyuketsukiouji 05-28-04, 10:44 AM	DR 15 at level 15 isn't that powerful. DR 15/- is a bit iffy. Compare that to Iron Body, that has DR 15/adamantite. I'd not make it that good. If you insist on DR /-, make it one per 2 levels, or a flat rate. Otherwise, add some bypass material.
Ainaelin 05-28-04, 09:08 PM	Well, DR means that the caster does not take damage of up to his caster level. Otherwise, what would be the point of the spell : just take Fire shield, that would be 4 levels lower! It's a Protection spell mostly... If you compare both spells, - Fire Shield does not protect you from physical blows, but protects you against either Fire damage or Cold damage, VPF (Vampiric Protection Field) protects you from physical blows, but not from Energy damage... If you manage a Reflex Save against the Element you are protected from by Fire Shield, you take no damage, even if it were 144 HP damage from a Maximized Meteor Swarm!!!!! - Fire Shield damages the attacker for 1D6 + Caster level (limited to 1D6+15), VPF damages him for CL (but no limit) - Fire Shield has no costly component, VPF has a 250 GP component, which is not much at that level, I agree, but might prevent casting it whenever you want in an adventure, depending on the way you manage costly components... - VPF is the same level as Prismatic Wall, for instance, and only one level less than Prismatic Sphere (they last for 10mn./lvl.). So, yes, mine is most powerful, but as an 8th-level spell, it's supposed to be powerful. As for adding something to overcome the DR, well... it's a hard call. - Comparison to Iron Body is weird, considering all the other bonuses and immunities that Iron Body gives you, compared to VPF... - I don't see the spell as Aligned, so Alignment should not be included. - At that level, most foes would have magic weapons or other ways to overcome such DR, so Magic alone is not a good idea... - Material... Yes, I could use Darkwood... There is something very special with Darkwood in my mind, that it could ignore such a Field designed mostly against natural and metal weapons... So now... Magical Darkwood or Darkwood only?
Vanigo 05-28-04, 09:16 PM	Except, it's not really DR 15/-. It's DR 15/-, and you gain 15 hit points every time you get hit (usually), which works out more like DR 30/-. That's way too powerful.
Ainaelin 05-29-04, 06:40 AM	Well, as I said yesterday, I added a material (Darkwood) to overcome the DR (I just edited the spell). One might say that few fighters have Darkwood weapons and that it's a little hypocritical of me to add such a "fake" clause, but then I say that there a still a number of ways to damage such a caster : - Magic : Most damaging spells would still work, since I say in the VPF description that it only works against Physical blows and not against energy spells like Fireball. I don't even speak of non-damaging spells such as Power Word : Kill. The only spells that are blocked are the Summon varieties and the the like (Mordenkainen's Sword and similar spells are included) - Darkwood staves, arrows, clubs, spears... - Undead are unaffected by the spell - Some high-level Fighters that attack with Power attack, especially 2-handed weapons, can quite easily overcome the 30 or even 40 limit... Their damaging will probably be slow, but ... Compare it to Repulsion , a 6th level spell, that with but a Will save (not a fighter's best save, I am given to understand), will prevent ANY melee attack from that fighter... or even better, the Cleric's and Druid's Antilife Shell , which does the same, with NO save, at 6th level as well... All right, those spells do not heal the caster, but they have more broad uses than VPF and are 2 levels lower...