Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PhantomTrain 05-03-07, 05:01 PM	Ok, long story short. What spells not on the Permanency list do you kids allow your players to make Permanent? And at what cost?
tarkin 05-03-07, 05:30 PM	I let anyone make any spell permanent, but use a high price. Specifically, I use 25% discount off the equivleent magic item value. Translate that to xp if they are casting it themselves instead of paying gold. ----------------- This discourages people that want to do it to save money "WHAT???? You mean I have to pay 75% and still have a chance of it being dispelled? That sucks! No way." At the same time it encourages people that want to do it for character reasons: "COOL!! I get to have Boots of Speed effect even though I am a merman and have no feet!" I also try to be a little bit more generous about avoiding dispells to the people doing it for character reasons. Also I warn people that they should expect at least one attempt to dispell magic on them every two or three levels.
tyrecian 05-03-07, 05:50 PM	I don't allow not on list, unless the player makes a really covincing argument. really convincing, and i have yet to hear one. My players rarely try this. Almost every caster in my campaigns takes Dispel Magic at 3rd level spells and uses it in combat when against PCs. At higher levels it is a tried and true tactic of the enemy to dispel any caster they see enter combat (many times i hit wizards and sorcs and 'locks and such, since clerics are usually armored like warriors). I also make liberal use of Dispel traps and anti-magic field rooms (stop scry and die, among other rediculous tactics). Still a tank or a skills ***** might think about a permanency and that is fine. I allow it at g.p. for level casting, but allow the option for the Caster to cast this (like crafting) and the player to take the Exp hit (if they really want it). Otherwise if they are trying to get a caster to cast this on them, they must pay 5x the price of the Exp loss. That can be a hefty sum, and often makes this less of a boon than it seems. It is also very very difficult to find a wizard NPC in my campaigns that would do this in the first place, let alone do this more than once. Most of the time the wizard and Sorc PCs in my campaign dont even take this spell at higher levels. I have had PCs that took Darkvision, Tongues, and See Invis before. I use Permanency Greater Teleportation Circle a lot in my campaigns as both traps and city to city transport (in the metropolis regions), and allow for predatory businesses to have them as well as villains, sometimes at higher levels.
forsaken1111 05-03-07, 05:53 PM	I let anyone make any spell permanent, but use a high price. Specifically, I use 25% discount off the equivleent magic item value. Translate that to xp if they are casting it themselves instead of paying gold. ----------------- This discourages people that want to do it to save money "WHAT???? You mean I have to pay 75% and still have a chance of it being dispelled? That sucks! No way." At the same time it encourages people that want to do it for character reasons: "COOL!! I get to have Boots of Speed effect even though I am a merman and have no feet!" I also try to be a little bit more generous about avoiding dispells to the people doing it for character reasons. Also I warn people that they should expect at least one attempt to dispell magic on them every two or three levels. Wow, I wish I'd had my soulknife in your game. Hire a wizard who can alter the spell area of a spell to permenancy a 5ft wide xft tall antimagic column centered on me. Sure I have to roll to keep my nice blade of psychic energy but I'm immune to magic. Including dispel magic.
Seeker95 05-03-07, 07:18 PM	permenancy a 5ft wide xft tall antimagic column centered on me.Immune to magic. Including its benefits. Can't be healed. Can't be raised. Can't use magic items. Can't be teleported with the party. I'd allow it. You still bleed when cut. Further, while a soulknife can sustain a mind blade in such an area with a concentration check, it cannot use its other Supernatural abilities, as none of these indicate being able to do so. You would effectively turn yourself into a one trick pony.
Red_Wizard 05-03-07, 07:49 PM	Um, last time checked, dispel has no effect on personal permanacied spells, which desn't make sense for the DM to say they make liberal use of Dispel, or for a player to say "75%? No way". Even at a 75% cost, a permanancied spell trumps a magic item every time. No slot? Sure, i'll pay less for that spell then.
PhaedrusXY 05-03-07, 08:15 PM	Um, last time checked, dispel has no effect on personal permanacied spells,This section clearly indicates that personal permanent spells can be dispelled: You can make the following spells permanent in regard to yourself. <SNIP> You cast the desired spell and then follow it with the permanency spell. You cannot cast these spells on other creatures. This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell.They just have an extra requirement (which I underlined). This line at the end does not contradict this: Spells cast on other creatures, objects, or locations (not on you) are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal.The ones on your own person can still be dispelled, but have the extra requirement, thus they aren't as vulnerable to dispel magic as normal.
forsaken1111 05-03-07, 10:43 PM	Immune to magic. Including its benefits. Can't be healed. Can't be raised. Can't use magic items. Can't be teleported with the party. I'd allow it. You still bleed when cut. Further, while a soulknife can sustain a mind blade in such an area with a concentration check, it cannot use its other Supernatural abilities, as none of these indicate being able to do so. You would effectively turn yourself into a one trick pony. Healing, I can deal with. I'd probably save up for the Tsochar fleshgraft which grants fast healing. Raising wouldn't be a problem. Once I died the permenancy would be gone since the spell ends upon death. Magic items, feh... they also don't work on me so its fine. I'll still have my mindblade with all its specialness. Can't be teleported, well that's okay too. I'll walk... small price to pay for immunity to magic. It might annoy the hell out of the people in Sharn though when I'm walking by and nullifying the bridge enchantments which keep people from falling to their deaths. : )
taltamir 05-04-07, 02:35 AM	Healing, I can deal with. I'd probably save up for the Tsochar fleshgraft which grants fast healing. Raising wouldn't be a problem. Once I died the permenancy would be gone since the spell ends upon death. Magic items, feh... they also don't work on me so its fine. I'll still have my mindblade with all its specialness. Can't be teleported, well that's okay too. I'll walk... small price to pay for immunity to magic. It might annoy the hell out of the people in Sharn though when I'm walking by and nullifying the bridge enchantments which keep people from falling to their deaths. : ) People being you, you are immune to magic, not gravity.
forsaken1111 05-04-07, 04:53 AM	People being you, you are immune to magic, not gravity. In sharn, a city in the Eberron setting, the bridges in the towers are warded to cast feather fall if someone falls off the bridge. Me walking by would suppress that area-enchantment, as far as I know. Thats all I meant.. dunno what you're talking about negating gravity.
Seeker95 05-04-07, 08:23 AM	Raising wouldn't be a problem. Once I died the permenancy would be gone since the spell ends upon death.No it would not. Permanency can be cast on objects. That you become a corpse (object) when you die does not negate the effect of an anti-magic column. The only permenet effects that would end upon your death are those that require life to work in the first place. Arcane vision, mind link, those sorts of things.
forsaken1111 05-04-07, 08:29 AM	No it would not. Permanency can be cast on objects. That you become a corpse (object) when you die does not negate the effect of an anti-magic column. The only permenet effects that would end upon your death are those that require life to work in the first place. Arcane vision, mind link, those sorts of things. As far as I know, all spell effects on you end upon death. If what you say is correct, then I could have all my permenancy effect persist through a death and raise dead? And resurrection, while a bit more expensive, only requires a portion of the body. So they could slice off a toe and use some funds I had in my account to resurrect me. And according to you my permenancy spells don't end on death so I'd be antimagic'd again when I woke up.
Seeker95 05-04-07, 08:55 AM	As far as I know, all spell effects on you end upon death.I have not seen such a rule. If what you say is correct, then I could have all my permenancy effect persist through a death and raise dead?Not exactly. You could have permanency effects persist through death and a raise dead if: 1. You were raised using a pretty intact body. 2. The permanent effect is effective on objects as well as creatures. The former is purely a judgment call. Is there enough body remaining? The latter is based on the legitimate targets of the spell being made permanent. A corpse is an object. If the spell can affect objects and creatures, then yes, the permanent effect can outlast the death of the target. So they could slice off a toe and use some funds I had in my account to resurrect me. And according to you my permenancy spells don't end on death so I'd be antimagic'd again when I woke up.See point 1 above. I would not expect a DM to rule that I can cast continual flame on a pile of marbles and expect the flame to remain on every marble I remove from the pile. Nor would I expect a DM to rule that a spell cast on my body would still be in effect if my body is destroyed but my toe remains.
forsaken1111 05-04-07, 08:58 AM	I would not expect a DM to rule that I can cast continual flame on a pile of marbles and expect the flame to remain on every marble I remove from the pile. Nor would I expect a DM to rule that a spell cast on my body would still be in effect if my body is destroyed but my toe remains. Flawed analogy, but I understand and agree. Even if my DM ruled that the AMF persisted after death though, I would simply have funds set aside for the more expensive rez. Being completely immune to magic means I won't have to worry about buying magic items for myself either, so I'll have plenty of money from my cut of the loot turning into cash. It really would be an interesting character to play. Many many hazards would be completely negated, and many would be much more deadly.
robitusinz 05-04-07, 11:50 AM	Why the hubbub over permanency? It can be dispelled. It doesn't need any other weakness than that. Who the heck's going to pay a ton of gold, as per Tarkin, only to have the effect dispelled in a few encounters? A magic item, if dispelled, will regain its abilities after a few rounds. THAT is permanent. These boards are so weird...you have these ultra-conservatives, and then these insane liberals. It's either "I roleplay the hard way, dammit, with a 3rd level Fighter who can only choose from 6 feats that I selected and are perfectly balanced", or, "I just made a new race...+16 Strength, -4 Charisma, with True Seeing...it's so awesome, and it has so much flavor. That -4 Charisma really gets me into trouble! hee hee! ^_^ "
tarkin 05-04-07, 11:59 AM	Wow, I wish I'd had my soulknife in your game. Hire a wizard who can alter the spell area of a spell to permenancy a 5ft wide xft tall antimagic column centered on me. Sure I have to roll to keep my nice blade of psychic energy but I'm immune to magic. Including dispel magic. Yes, the Anti-Magic protects you from Dispell Magic. It also cancels all other magic on you, including the permanancy The only way to make the permancy work would be to put it outside the anti-magic, which guess what, makes it dispellable. Duh. ----------------------------------------------- robitusinz, you want to know who the hell will pay for it? Like I said earlier: People looking to get a FAIR deal, not to rip off the DM by cheating them. If you are playing a wierd race that has no limbs and wants magic items, then yes you are willing to pay the high price I charge. And no, it does not get dispelled very quickly. Typically they hold up for about 2-4 levels of gaming, mainly because smart players pay to get a HIGH level caster to make it permanent. That is about the same time it takes people to decide to upgrade most of their magic items, and usually after 4 levels or so, something is stolen or sundered, but not their permanent spells. It works out pretty fair, and is well worth it to someone that is not trying to pull a fast one.
forsaken1111 05-04-07, 12:00 PM	Why the hubbub over permanency? It can be dispelled. It doesn't need any other weakness than that. Who the heck's going to pay a ton of gold, as per Tarkin, only to have the effect dispelled in a few encounters? A magic item, if dispelled, will regain its abilities after a few rounds. THAT is permanent. These boards are so weird...you have these ultra-conservatives, and then these insane liberals. It's either "I roleplay the hard way, dammit, with a 3rd level Fighter who can only choose from 6 feats that I selected and are perfectly balanced", or, "I just made a new race...+16 Strength, -4 Charisma, with True Seeing...it's so awesome, and it has so much flavor. That -4 Charisma really gets me into trouble! hee hee! ^_^ " Permenancy is nice for some things... and if you permenancy an antimagic field on yourself then it can't be dispelled. ^.^ But yeah, its not that great.
robitusinz 05-04-07, 12:08 PM	robitusinz, you want to know who the hell will pay for it? Like I said earlier: People looking to get a FAIR deal, not to rip off the DM by cheating them. If you are playing a wierd race that has no limbs and wants magic items, then yes you are willing to pay the high price I charge. And no, it does not get dispelled very quickly. Typically they hold up for about 2-4 levels of gaming, mainly because smart players pay to get a HIGH level caster to make it permanent. That is about the same time it takes people to decide to upgrade most of their magic items, and usually after 4 levels or so, something is stolen or sundered, but not their permanent spells. It works out pretty fair, and is well worth it to someone that is not trying to pull a fast one. Sorry, but what the hell kind of campaign do you run where there's these high level spellcasters who are willing to dish out the XP to cast permanency on your PCs? You do realize that the DM should probably roleplay these high-level casters, and that if you just go ahead and delete "level 20 wizard" from your list of "people who live in the town of Bumpysquat", then this kind of crap ceases to exist, right? I just don't get how you guys have these hidden, ninja spellcasters who run outside of the DM's sphere of control in these games. Sounds to me like you have pretty average players, just a retarded DM. Player: "I go to a level 20 wizard to cast Permanency on me." DM: "You don't know of any." Player: "Crap, you saw through my web of lies, damn you, DM!"
forsaken1111 05-04-07, 12:16 PM	Sorry, but what the hell kind of campaign do you run where there's these high level spellcasters who are willing to dish out the XP to cast permanency on your PCs? You do realize that the DM should probably roleplay these high-level casters, and that if you just go ahead and delete "level 20 wizard" from your list of "people who live in the town of Bumpysquat", then this kind of crap ceases to exist, right? I just don't get how you guys have these hidden, ninja spellcasters who run outside of the DM's sphere of control in these games. Sounds to me like you have pretty average players, just a retarded DM. Player: "I go to a level 20 wizard to cast Permanency on me." DM: "You don't know of any." Player: "Crap, you saw through my web of lies, damn you, DM!" Why would it need to be a level 20 wizard? Why would you look for one in the "town of Bumpysquat"? You're stretching things to make your point and it reflects poorly on your argument. It doesn't stretch imagination that far to assume there would be some wizards willing to do the deed for money. Perhaps I would require the PC to do the roleplaying of finding said wizard, but I wouldn't deny the possibility outright. You pay a pretty penny for those xp points, there has to be a down-on-his-luck wizard somewhere in the city who needs some cash.
Argo 05-04-07, 01:28 PM	It doesn't stretch imagination that far to assume there would be some wizards willing to do the deed for money. ... You pay a pretty penny for those xp points, there has to be a down-on-his-luck wizard somewhere in the city who needs some cash. Surely there is a better way for a level 20 wizard to make some quick cash than selling his services as some kind of a permanancy mercenary, eating his XP like so much delicious, delicious Pez. If he was that hard up, everybody keeps talking about what a great money-making spell Fabricate is. Or, an even better spell for making money: invisibility. If no one sees you take it, it's not illegal. Plus, at level 20, he can foil all means of detection.
forsaken1111 05-04-07, 01:31 PM	Surely there is a better way for a level 20 wizard to make some quick cash than selling his services as some kind of a permanancy mercenary, eating his XP like so much delicious, delicious Pez. If he was that hard up, everybody keeps talking about what a great money-making spell Fabricate is. Or, an even better spell for making money: invisibility. If no one sees you take it, it's not illegal. Plus, at level 20, he can foil all means of detection. Why do you guys keep assuming its a level 20 wizard? Its not THAT hard to imagine that a wizard might be in debt and not wanting to GO AROUND STEALING TO MAKE MONEY. Maybe he likes honest work?
Seeker95 05-04-07, 02:22 PM	It really would be an interesting character to play. Many many hazards would be completely negated, and many would be much more deadly.Yup. Which is why I have no problem allowing it. :tiphat:
Argo 05-04-07, 02:36 PM	Why do you guys keep assuming its a level 20 wizard? Its not THAT hard to imagine that a wizard might be in debt and not wanting to GO AROUND STEALING TO MAKE MONEY. Maybe he likes honest work? If he likes honest work so much, why would he study magic? Besides, thievery is honest work. Ask anyone.
robitusinz 05-04-07, 02:54 PM	Why would it need to be a level 20 wizard? Why would you look for one in the "town of Bumpysquat"? You're stretching things to make your point and it reflects poorly on your argument. It doesn't stretch imagination that far to assume there would be some wizards willing to do the deed for money. Perhaps I would require the PC to do the roleplaying of finding said wizard, but I wouldn't deny the possibility outright. You pay a pretty penny for those xp points, there has to be a down-on-his-luck wizard somewhere in the city who needs some cash. I used level 20 wizard because Tarkin's argument was that the players would get a high-level wizard to do it for them. If they simply found some Shmoe Wizard to cast Permanency, then it's still susceptible to Dispel, which doesn't make Permanency overpowered at all, thus going back to my original question..."Why all the hubbub over permanency?" To me, it'd be broken if you did get a level 15-20 (happy?) Wizard to come in and do it on some level 3 PC, since it'd be virtually immune to Dispel for quite some time. But then that begs the question, what are all these high level Wizards doing shooting off Permanencies on PCs in your campaign? I think the fact that the DM can solve the "problem" at the source makes it a non-issue. No need for systems, or 75% of cost rules or any of that junk.
Flan 05-04-07, 03:23 PM	I used level 20 wizard because Tarkin's argument was that the players would get a high-level wizard to do it for them. 500xp or whatever for a 20th level wizard is literally nothing. If they simply found some Shmoe Wizard to cast Permanency, then it's still susceptible to Dispel, which doesn't make Permanency overpowered at all, thus going back to my original question..."Why all the hubbub over permanency?" It's still dispellable even if cast by a 20th level wizard. To me, it'd be broken if you did get a level 15-20 (happy?) Wizard to come in and do it on some level 3 PC, since it'd be virtually immune to Dispel for quite some time. But then that begs the question, what are all these high level Wizards doing shooting off Permanencies on PCs in your campaign? Level 3 characters generally don't have the 10k + other spell + whatever to blow on a permanency, but if they do, so what. Arcane Sight is nice, but it's not a big deal, which is the point of not allowing people to permanency other things. Persistent Spell is very abuseable, add in Divine Metamagic and it's broken all to hell, Permanency where you can do it on anything is exactly Persistent + DMM but with a (at high level) completely trivial XP cost.
ArcTan 05-04-07, 04:29 PM	Immune to magic. Including its benefits. Can't be healed. Can't be raised. Can't use magic items. Can't be teleported with the party. I'd allow it. You still bleed when cut. Further, while a soulknife can sustain a mind blade in such an area with a concentration check, it cannot use its other Supernatural abilities, as none of these indicate being able to do so. You would effectively turn yourself into a one trick pony. Better would be the hole-in-the-middle antimagic "donut" you can make with the Archmage.
Seeker95 05-04-07, 04:47 PM	Better would be the hole-in-the-middle antimagic "donut" you can make with the Archmage.I thought about that. But the number of spells that can be cast into that hole are minimal. And the risks outweigh the benefits, since the spells that *can* are more likely to be damaging than beneficial. Such a permanent effect would certainly change the game, significantly even. But the change would (in my opinion) be balance neutral. And reminds me of the Centaur Aisle in the Xanth series. In a world of magic, the creature with no magic is truly unique.
taltamir 05-04-07, 06:07 PM	Yes, the Anti-Magic protects you from Dispell Magic. It also cancels all other magic on you, including the permanancy The only way to make the permancy work would be to put it outside the anti-magic, which guess what, makes it dispellable. Duh. ----------------------------------------------- robitusinz, you want to know who the hell will pay for it? Like I said earlier: People looking to get a FAIR deal, not to rip off the DM by cheating them. If you are playing a wierd race that has no limbs and wants magic items, then yes you are willing to pay the high price I charge. And no, it does not get dispelled very quickly. Typically they hold up for about 2-4 levels of gaming, mainly because smart players pay to get a HIGH level caster to make it permanent. That is about the same time it takes people to decide to upgrade most of their magic items, and usually after 4 levels or so, something is stolen or sundered, but not their permanent spells. It works out pretty fair, and is well worth it to someone that is not trying to pull a fast one. DOH, he beat me to it... Wouldn't the anti magic field suppress its own permanancy? Or in fact, prevent it from occuring in the first place. Permanancy is NOT metamagic but a SERPERATE spell that has to be cast immidiatly after (next round) the spell to be made permanant. Wizard: Ok, here goes, I cast anti magic field... Done... now lemme cast the permanancy on that anti magic field... errr... That seems to have fizzled for some obscure reason. This also means that NO spell with an INSTANT duration can be made permanent, because the spell is gone by the time you are done casting permanancy.
forsaken1111 05-04-07, 08:58 PM	Better would be the hole-in-the-middle antimagic "donut" you can make with the Archmage. That's an even better idea. The 8 spaces around me, and 9 above/below are affected by a constant AMF. So incoming spells would be canceled, and I'd gain all the protection the other would provide. My own magic would work, as would enemy's magic weapons on attacking. I could attack into the AMF with my mindblade by making the concentration checks.
ArcTan 05-04-07, 09:02 PM	I thought about that. But the number of spells that can be cast into that hole are minimal. And the risks outweigh the benefits, since the spells that *can* are more likely to be damaging than beneficial. Er, no. The AMF blocks *all* spellcasting from outside the hole. In order to cast a spell on you, a spellcaster would have to reduce their size to Small or lower, enter your square, and cast spells on you. This means you can, with some effort, get long-term buffs with reduce person, but casting harmful spells on you will be really hard.
taltamir 05-04-07, 09:32 PM	i thought the AMF suppresses things, not BLOCKS or DISPELLS them... That is... if you the AMF moves all spells inside of it come back, unless their timer expired. On the same note, a fireball would come out the other side... maybe :P
forsaken1111 05-04-07, 09:39 PM	i thought the AMF suppresses things, not BLOCKS or DISPELLS them... That is... if you the AMF moves all spells inside of it come back, unless their timer expired. On the same note, a fireball would come out the other side... maybe :P You cannot cast spells through an antimagic field, period. If someone is on the other side of such a field spells will not target them as you don't have line of effect. Instantaneous spells that hit an antimagic field simply dissipate. Spells with duration continue to tick down but are suppressed.
Seeker95 05-05-07, 09:18 AM	Er, no. The AMF blocks *all* spellcasting from outside the hole.You said a donut. Flamestrike can reach down from above. Meteor storm can drop down from above. Call lightning can strike down from above. That sort of thing.
Kursk 05-05-07, 09:28 AM	I make them research it as they would a new spell at 5th + level of spell to be made permanent.
wal9000 05-05-07, 09:43 AM	You said a donut. Flamestrike can reach down from above. Meteor storm can drop down from above. Call lightning can strike down from above. That sort of thing. He did say donut, but the later description (the 8 squares next to him and the 9 above and below) is more like a bubble.
forsaken1111 05-05-07, 12:47 PM	You said a donut. Flamestrike can reach down from above. Meteor storm can drop down from above. Call lightning can strike down from above. That sort of thing. Which is why I said more of a hollow sphere, affecting the 8 squares around you, 9 above and 9 below.
taltamir 05-05-07, 02:16 PM	so he becomes only vulnerable to touch attacks and magical items... mmm.. that WOULD be very useful...
forsaken1111 05-05-07, 02:36 PM	so he becomes only vulnerable to touch attacks and magical items... mmm.. that WOULD be very useful... With the bubble idea its possible, though unlikely, that an enemy could get into the bubble via a reduce spell and dispell the permenancy on me. The reduce spell would be supressed until he actually attempted to enter my square... I don't know how that would work. They could also brain me with a rod of cancelation, I think that would do it.
The_Unseen_Illusion 05-06-07, 04:04 AM	My DM used Permanancy with Greater Magic Weapon to make our level 5 Paladin have a +4 longsword. Funny thing, a shaman casted it, and I was a monk, and he had Greater Magic Fang, but my DM said Greater Magic Fang can't be used on monks.
The_Unseen_Illusion 05-06-07, 04:13 AM	I've got a combination here. Permenate Shrink Item on a Bag of Holding. And then if your DM permits, Permenate Nystul's Magic Aura. Then keep it hidden on you somewhere so that whenever your captured, they can't detect it unless they found it on you. You'll never be without equiptment again!
forsaken1111 05-06-07, 07:55 AM	I've got a combination here. Permenate Shrink Item on a Bag of Holding. And then if your DM permits, Permenate Nystul's Magic Aura. Then keep it hidden on you somewhere so that whenever your captured, they can't detect it unless they found it on you. You'll never be without equiptment again! Yeah, at that point just get the bag sewn into a tiny flap of your skin under an arm, and have remove disease cast the day after to prevent infection.
ArcTan 05-06-07, 02:17 PM	You said a donut. Flamestrike can reach down from above. Meteor storm can drop down from above. Call lightning can strike down from above. That sort of thing. Okay, yes, it's not actually a donut, it's a spherical emanation with a single 5-foot bubble inside of it. By default this is what the Archmage's Shape Spell ability does -- you could only make a 2d donut if you chose to add *more* bubbles above and below you, which most people wouldn't voluntarily do.
ArcTan 05-06-07, 02:17 PM	I've got a combination here. Permenate Shrink Item on a Bag of Holding. And then if your DM permits, Permenate Nystul's Magic Aura. Then keep it hidden on you somewhere so that whenever your captured, they can't detect it unless they found it on you. You'll never be without equiptment again! You can't shrink magic items. Only mundane ones.
taltamir 05-06-07, 08:09 PM	most of what we plan here is illigal, we aren't gonna let that spoil the fun are we?
JLaurHughes 05-06-07, 08:27 PM	I actually base it on a general calculation and if the spell is an enhancement, area or target other. Certain spells, like Fog Cloud, can be turned into permanent effects in a specified area, anything like that can be blown away temporarily(as with a Gust of wind) but always return. For personal and Target other, these I have to read the spell for before allowing it. I don't allow a permanent curse, since the spell is already pretty much permanent until remove curse spell is cast. Spells like Fox's cunning, though I would allow, and allow to be dispelled with a Targeted dispel only. Costs follow Spell Level*500, starting at CL9(when you can get 5th level spells). (An example, Rary's Telepathic Bond[5th Level Spell] which costs 2500XP to cast permanency on).