A potential polymorph fix -- please critique [Archive] - Wizards Community

A potential polymorph fix -- please critique [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
radu the wanderer
02-24-06, 01:55 PM I feel that shapechanging absolutely has a place in my games, but the potential power of the major shapechanging spells (polymorph, polymorph any object, shapechange) and powers (metamorphosis and greater metamorphosis) is exponential when you consider every new monster book out there adds new forms to take.

With that in mind, I have a sort of house rule that I'm going to instate in my games. Let me know what you think:

SHAPECHANGING SPELLS AND EFFECTS

The following clause is considered to be added on to any shapechanging spell or effect:

"You may only change into a limited number of chosen forms equal to 3 + your relevant spellcasting/manifesting ability modifier. None of these forms may have more HD than you. To select a particular creature as a chosen form, you must make a Knowledge check appropriate to the creature desired, DC 15 + form's HD. At each level, you may replace an existing form with a new one, but you must make the Knowledge check for the new form as normal. If you wish to replace an old form with a new one prior to gaining a level, you must undergo a ritual costing 100 XP per HD of the new form. The ritual takes 1 day to prepare, and the ritual itself lasts for 1 hour per HD of the new form."

This rule is intended to place a cap on polymorph without making it a useless spell. For example, a 7th level wizard with 14 Int could have the following list of forms:

Annis Hag
7 Headed Hydra
Large Shark
Griffon
Dire Wolf

In the new system, they would only need Knowledge: Arcana and Knowledge: Nature. Maxing both skills out gives a total bonus of +12, which should easily make the DC 22 checks required to know new these forms. And as you can see, there's still a great deal of flexibility even with only 5 forms to choose from: dire wolf for good land speed and battle control use, as well as scent, griffon for flight and pounce, the shark for a nice aquatic combatant and scout, the hydra for total area control, and the annis hag for in your face melee.

I like the XP cost for new forms, as I feel it kind of reflects an "internalizing" of the monster: you can only change into that which your soul is ready to accept. I see the ritual as aligning the caster's body and spirit to accept the new shape desired. Even if you cast it on someone else, I still think the ritual element of it makes sense-- you, as the caster, are warping someone's body into a shape they were never supposed to have.

What do you all think? I think it should work out pretty well, but I'm interested in your feedback.
Seeker95
02-24-06, 02:32 PM Seems reasonable. If it works in your game, it is good.
Tony Vargas
02-24-06, 02:52 PM IMHO, you're addressing the less critical problem with polymorphing. The theoretically unlimitted menue of forms is daunting, and could be problematic, especially if the player has a sufficiently encyclopedic knowledge of the forms available to pick the ideal one for dealing with each situation (at least, each situation in which a unique ability of a given creature gives an inapropriate advantage).

Most of the time, though, challenges won't be easily overcome by such unique powers - most often, they'll be overcome by abilities the party already possesses, or by the simple expediencies of combat (who has the best damage dealing/damage-avoiding capabilities).

That's where the mechanics of polymorph really cause problems. The ability to replace low physical stats with monster physical stats, or to stack natural armor or other abilities with PC equipment and buffs is what's really outrageous. It doesn't take a lot of forms to choose from, either. A few in the MMI are quite adequate to allow the 4th level spell to start trashing game balance.

That said, your idea will serve to /limit/ or reduce the abuse of polymorph, and, since not every group has some inveterate powergamer intent on abusing polymorph in the first place, that may be all you need.
Archtyrant Terevoth
02-24-06, 03:47 PM Honestly you're working the wrong direction. The idea shouldn't be to limit the quantity of forms, but to limit the quality of those forms.

You only need a single good combat monster form to break the spell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
radu the wanderer 02-24-06, 01:55 PM	I feel that shapechanging absolutely has a place in my games, but the potential power of the major shapechanging spells (polymorph, polymorph any object, shapechange) and powers (metamorphosis and greater metamorphosis) is exponential when you consider every new monster book out there adds new forms to take. With that in mind, I have a sort of house rule that I'm going to instate in my games. Let me know what you think: SHAPECHANGING SPELLS AND EFFECTS The following clause is considered to be added on to any shapechanging spell or effect: "You may only change into a limited number of chosen forms equal to 3 + your relevant spellcasting/manifesting ability modifier. None of these forms may have more HD than you. To select a particular creature as a chosen form, you must make a Knowledge check appropriate to the creature desired, DC 15 + form's HD. At each level, you may replace an existing form with a new one, but you must make the Knowledge check for the new form as normal. If you wish to replace an old form with a new one prior to gaining a level, you must undergo a ritual costing 100 XP per HD of the new form. The ritual takes 1 day to prepare, and the ritual itself lasts for 1 hour per HD of the new form." This rule is intended to place a cap on polymorph without making it a useless spell. For example, a 7th level wizard with 14 Int could have the following list of forms: Annis Hag 7 Headed Hydra Large Shark Griffon Dire Wolf In the new system, they would only need Knowledge: Arcana and Knowledge: Nature. Maxing both skills out gives a total bonus of +12, which should easily make the DC 22 checks required to know new these forms. And as you can see, there's still a great deal of flexibility even with only 5 forms to choose from: dire wolf for good land speed and battle control use, as well as scent, griffon for flight and pounce, the shark for a nice aquatic combatant and scout, the hydra for total area control, and the annis hag for in your face melee. I like the XP cost for new forms, as I feel it kind of reflects an "internalizing" of the monster: you can only change into that which your soul is ready to accept. I see the ritual as aligning the caster's body and spirit to accept the new shape desired. Even if you cast it on someone else, I still think the ritual element of it makes sense-- you, as the caster, are warping someone's body into a shape they were never supposed to have. What do you all think? I think it should work out pretty well, but I'm interested in your feedback.
Seeker95 02-24-06, 02:32 PM	Seems reasonable. If it works in your game, it is good.
Tony Vargas 02-24-06, 02:52 PM	IMHO, you're addressing the less critical problem with polymorphing. The theoretically unlimitted menue of forms is daunting, and could be problematic, especially if the player has a sufficiently encyclopedic knowledge of the forms available to pick the ideal one for dealing with each situation (at least, each situation in which a unique ability of a given creature gives an inapropriate advantage). Most of the time, though, challenges won't be easily overcome by such unique powers - most often, they'll be overcome by abilities the party already possesses, or by the simple expediencies of combat (who has the best damage dealing/damage-avoiding capabilities). That's where the mechanics of polymorph really cause problems. The ability to replace low physical stats with monster physical stats, or to stack natural armor or other abilities with PC equipment and buffs is what's really outrageous. It doesn't take a lot of forms to choose from, either. A few in the MMI are quite adequate to allow the 4th level spell to start trashing game balance. That said, your idea will serve to /limit/ or reduce the abuse of polymorph, and, since not every group has some inveterate powergamer intent on abusing polymorph in the first place, that may be all you need.
Archtyrant Terevoth 02-24-06, 03:47 PM	Honestly you're working the wrong direction. The idea shouldn't be to limit the quantity of forms, but to limit the quality of those forms. You only need a single good combat monster form to break the spell.