A question about spells per day [Archive] - Wizards Community

A question about spells per day [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Invierno
11-15-05, 04:35 AM Hello, this is my first post. So I apoligize if this has already been asked before.

I'm confused about spells-per-day and the number of spells my Sorcerer can learn.

I'm not exactly sure the difference between a Wizard and a Sorcerer. Wizards have to study their spells, but Sorcerers can cast them spontaneously, or so it says in the book, yet both in the player's hand book have spells per day.

I don't understand why my second level sorcerer gets 4 zero-level spells and 2 first level spells, but no second level spells until like 5th level. I know this is innacurate, my book is put away. ha. But anyway, I don't have any friends around here who play so me and my brother just play 2 characters each to make it a balanced party, and it's not like it's tournament, so up till now I've just been letting my sorcerer use any number of spells as many times as he needs, because I don't understand how spells-per-day work and there's no way I'm bringing a 9 hp character into battle against ogres and dark knights of chaotic doom and hatred.

If it helps, my character has a Charisma of 16.

thanks in advance!
Tyler Do'Urden
11-15-05, 05:52 AM Well, 1st-level characters probably shouldn't be fighting ogres and dark knights of chaotic doom and hatred. Not at 1st level anyway. There's a little thing called Challenge Rating that gives you an idea how tough a monster is. More on that later.

Spells per day are limited so that your character has limits. There's only so much one person can do in one day, even a wizard.

It's about tradeoffs. Sorcerers cast spontaneously from a small list of known spells. Wizards prepare their spells ahead of time from spellbooks. Sorcerers have more spells per day. Wizards gain new levels of spells one level earlier.
Wizards get bonus feats. Sorcerers... well, sorcerers kinda get shafted on that one, but they get more weapon proficiencies. That sort of helps.

Wizards have more at their disposal, but take more planning to be effective. Sorcerers are often very limited, but very powerful when operating within their niche.

Now, spells per day are easy to keep track of. For a sorcerer, you have your list of known spells of each level. Get some graph paper and section off a box for each of your spells per day; one row for 0-level spells, one row for 1st, one for 2nd, and so on. When your sorcerer casts a spell, X out one of the boxes of the appropriate level.

Let's do an example 1st-level sorcerer with a Charisma of 16. He knows four 0-level spells and 2 1st-level spells. Say he knows detect magic, ray of frost, light, prestidigitation, mage armor, and magic missile.
Now we make our spell slot matrix. Sorcerer 1 gets five 0-level slots and three 1st-level slots, plus one 1st-level slot for a high Charisma.
0 - [_][_][_][_][_]
1 - [_][_][_][_]

Now you know a fight is coming, so you cast mage armor (1st level). You cross out a 1st level slot and you've got a +4 armor bonus to AC for 1 hour. During the actual fight, you pop off two magic missiles and a ray of frost and spend the rest of the time defending yourself with your spear. Your spell slots now look like this.
0 - [X][_][_][_][_]
1 - [X][X][X][_]

When you rest for eight hours, you get all your spell slots back. If you drew the boxes in pen and the X's in pencil, you can just do some erasnig and you're good to go.

For wizards and clerics, it's even easier. You have to prepare your spells ahead of time, assigning one spell to each slot. So you make a list of your spells for the day, and when you cast one, you just cross it off the list.

Here's a sample for a 1st level wizard with an Intelligence of 16. The wizard has all of the 0-level spells and three 1st level spells in her spellbook. Let's say those spells are magic missile, mage armor, and protection from evil. She has three 0-level slots and 1 1st-level slots, +1 for having a high Intelligence.
Now she knows the party is going some place with orcs and that orcs tend to be evil, so she prepares the following spells.

0-level
acid splash
acid splash
daze

1st-level
protection from evil
mage armor

Once the wizard's party gets into the wilderness, the orcs ambush them. She had planned to put up her defensive spells beforehand and use her attack spells and crossbow to hold them off. Her first action is to instead five-foot-adjust out of reach and fire an acid splash at the nearest orc. So she crosses off one of her acid splashes. Luckily, the party tank manages to finish off the orc she wounded, so she takes a moment to put up a protection from evil and then crosses that spell out. Her spell list for the day now looks like this.

0-level
acid splash
acid splash
daze

1st-level
protection from evil
mage armor

Now, Challenge Rating is a way to rate how difficult a challenge a particular monster or trap or whatever is (hence the name). The general rule is that a party of four characters of level X can defeat a single monster of level X using one quarter of their resources (or half their resources if it's a dragon). Resources mean things like spells per day, hit points, arrows, scrolls, healing kit uses, etc. Things that don't last forever.

Here's an encounter calculator (http://www.deathwyrminn.com/dwi_el_xp_calculator.htm). You enter the number of party members and their level, the number of monsters and their challenge rating, and it calculates how challenging the encounter is, and how much experience points and treasure the players should get (give or take).
Ulorian
11-15-05, 06:45 AM The sorcerer description in the Player's Handbook lists two spell tables: Spells per Day and Spells Known. When you spontaneously cast spells as you are adventuring along, you pick them from your list of Spells Known. The number of times per day you can cast spells is dictated by the Spells per Day table.

Your Charisma bonus adds to the number of Spells per Day, not Spells Known (see p.8 of the PHB).

For example:

Say you are a 1st level sorcerer with 16 Charisma. The Spells Known table says you know 4 0-level and 2 1st level spells. When you create your character, you pick these spells. Say:

0th Level
message
light
acid splash
detect magic

1st Level
colour spray
magic missile

The Spells per Day table tells you that you can cast 5 0-level and 3 1-level spells per day. If you consult the table on p.8 of the PHB, you find that a 16 Charisma grants you a bonus 1st, 2nd, and 3rd spell per day. Since you can currently only cast 1st level spells, you only get the bonus 1st level spell. Your spells per day, including bonus spells, is then:

5 0-level and 4 1-level

After a full 8 hours rest, you have the ability to cast 5 0-level and 4 1-level spells. When you cast a spell, you must choose it from your list of spells known. For example, your character could cast light 3 times, message once, acid splash once, colour spray twice, and magic missile twice (that's a total of 5 0-level and 4 1-level spells).

When your character goes up a level, his spells known increases, so you then go to the PHB and choose additional spells to add to your list of known spells.

Let me know if this makes sense.
Invierno
11-15-05, 05:18 PM Thanks! I get spells per day now. Wizards seem a lot better, but most of the adventures I play aren't planned, they just happen, so I guess it works. I hate how I don't get second level spells until 4th level! But can I still use 2nd level spells I found on a scroll?
Puca
11-15-05, 05:36 PM You have to make a caster-level check to use a scroll if its caster level is higher than yours A scroll with a second-level spell probably has a caster level of 3, but your caster level is 3, so, you should be able to. Even if your DM requires a caster check, the DC for this is pretty easy to beat.

If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers.

Not getting second-level spells til fourth sucks, but dont count the sorcerer out. Being able to cast the spells you know as often as your spells per day is nothing to dismiss.
Dhavaer
11-15-05, 05:39 PM You can cast spells from a scroll if:

1. The spell is arcane, not divine. (i.e. bard or wizard/sorcerer spell
rather than druid, cleric, paladin or ranger.)
2. The spell is on your list. (Under Sorcerer/Wizard in the spell lists in the PHB)
3. You have the requesite ability score. (12 Charisma or better for a 2nd level Sorcerer spell)

Since you can't cast 2nd level spells yet, though, you have to make a caster level check. Assuming the scroll was made by a wizard (the default crafter) than you have to take a caster level check.
You roll 1d20+your caster level against a DC of 3 (for the crafter's level) +1.
So you can probably use the scroll, but it can be a little risky.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Invierno 11-15-05, 04:35 AM	Hello, this is my first post. So I apoligize if this has already been asked before. I'm confused about spells-per-day and the number of spells my Sorcerer can learn. I'm not exactly sure the difference between a Wizard and a Sorcerer. Wizards have to study their spells, but Sorcerers can cast them spontaneously, or so it says in the book, yet both in the player's hand book have spells per day. I don't understand why my second level sorcerer gets 4 zero-level spells and 2 first level spells, but no second level spells until like 5th level. I know this is innacurate, my book is put away. ha. But anyway, I don't have any friends around here who play so me and my brother just play 2 characters each to make it a balanced party, and it's not like it's tournament, so up till now I've just been letting my sorcerer use any number of spells as many times as he needs, because I don't understand how spells-per-day work and there's no way I'm bringing a 9 hp character into battle against ogres and dark knights of chaotic doom and hatred. If it helps, my character has a Charisma of 16. thanks in advance!
Tyler Do'Urden 11-15-05, 05:52 AM	Well, 1st-level characters probably shouldn't be fighting ogres and dark knights of chaotic doom and hatred. Not at 1st level anyway. There's a little thing called Challenge Rating that gives you an idea how tough a monster is. More on that later. Spells per day are limited so that your character has limits. There's only so much one person can do in one day, even a wizard. It's about tradeoffs. Sorcerers cast spontaneously from a small list of known spells. Wizards prepare their spells ahead of time from spellbooks. Sorcerers have more spells per day. Wizards gain new levels of spells one level earlier. Wizards get bonus feats. Sorcerers... well, sorcerers kinda get shafted on that one, but they get more weapon proficiencies. That sort of helps. Wizards have more at their disposal, but take more planning to be effective. Sorcerers are often very limited, but very powerful when operating within their niche. Now, spells per day are easy to keep track of. For a sorcerer, you have your list of known spells of each level. Get some graph paper and section off a box for each of your spells per day; one row for 0-level spells, one row for 1st, one for 2nd, and so on. When your sorcerer casts a spell, X out one of the boxes of the appropriate level. Let's do an example 1st-level sorcerer with a Charisma of 16. He knows four 0-level spells and 2 1st-level spells. Say he knows detect magic, ray of frost, light, prestidigitation, mage armor, and magic missile. Now we make our spell slot matrix. Sorcerer 1 gets five 0-level slots and three 1st-level slots, plus one 1st-level slot for a high Charisma. 0 - [_][_][_][_][_] 1 - [_][_][_][_] Now you know a fight is coming, so you cast mage armor (1st level). You cross out a 1st level slot and you've got a +4 armor bonus to AC for 1 hour. During the actual fight, you pop off two magic missiles and a ray of frost and spend the rest of the time defending yourself with your spear. Your spell slots now look like this. 0 - [X][_][_][_][_] 1 - [X][X][X][_] When you rest for eight hours, you get all your spell slots back. If you drew the boxes in pen and the X's in pencil, you can just do some erasnig and you're good to go. For wizards and clerics, it's even easier. You have to prepare your spells ahead of time, assigning one spell to each slot. So you make a list of your spells for the day, and when you cast one, you just cross it off the list. Here's a sample for a 1st level wizard with an Intelligence of 16. The wizard has all of the 0-level spells and three 1st level spells in her spellbook. Let's say those spells are magic missile, mage armor, and protection from evil. She has three 0-level slots and 1 1st-level slots, +1 for having a high Intelligence. Now she knows the party is going some place with orcs and that orcs tend to be evil, so she prepares the following spells. 0-level acid splash acid splash daze 1st-level protection from evil mage armor Once the wizard's party gets into the wilderness, the orcs ambush them. She had planned to put up her defensive spells beforehand and use her attack spells and crossbow to hold them off. Her first action is to instead five-foot-adjust out of reach and fire an acid splash at the nearest orc. So she crosses off one of her acid splashes. Luckily, the party tank manages to finish off the orc she wounded, so she takes a moment to put up a protection from evil and then crosses that spell out. Her spell list for the day now looks like this. 0-level acid splash acid splash daze 1st-level protection from evil mage armor Now, Challenge Rating is a way to rate how difficult a challenge a particular monster or trap or whatever is (hence the name). The general rule is that a party of four characters of level X can defeat a single monster of level X using one quarter of their resources (or half their resources if it's a dragon). Resources mean things like spells per day, hit points, arrows, scrolls, healing kit uses, etc. Things that don't last forever. Here's an encounter calculator (http://www.deathwyrminn.com/dwi_el_xp_calculator.htm). You enter the number of party members and their level, the number of monsters and their challenge rating, and it calculates how challenging the encounter is, and how much experience points and treasure the players should get (give or take).
Ulorian 11-15-05, 06:45 AM	The sorcerer description in the Player's Handbook lists two spell tables: Spells per Day and Spells Known. When you spontaneously cast spells as you are adventuring along, you pick them from your list of Spells Known. The number of times per day you can cast spells is dictated by the Spells per Day table. Your Charisma bonus adds to the number of Spells per Day, not Spells Known (see p.8 of the PHB). For example: Say you are a 1st level sorcerer with 16 Charisma. The Spells Known table says you know 4 0-level and 2 1st level spells. When you create your character, you pick these spells. Say: 0th Level message light acid splash detect magic 1st Level colour spray magic missile The Spells per Day table tells you that you can cast 5 0-level and 3 1-level spells per day. If you consult the table on p.8 of the PHB, you find that a 16 Charisma grants you a bonus 1st, 2nd, and 3rd spell per day. Since you can currently only cast 1st level spells, you only get the bonus 1st level spell. Your spells per day, including bonus spells, is then: 5 0-level and 4 1-level After a full 8 hours rest, you have the ability to cast 5 0-level and 4 1-level spells. When you cast a spell, you must choose it from your list of spells known. For example, your character could cast light 3 times, message once, acid splash once, colour spray twice, and magic missile twice (that's a total of 5 0-level and 4 1-level spells). When your character goes up a level, his spells known increases, so you then go to the PHB and choose additional spells to add to your list of known spells. Let me know if this makes sense.
Invierno 11-15-05, 05:18 PM	Thanks! I get spells per day now. Wizards seem a lot better, but most of the adventures I play aren't planned, they just happen, so I guess it works. I hate how I don't get second level spells until 4th level! But can I still use 2nd level spells I found on a scroll?
Puca 11-15-05, 05:36 PM	You have to make a caster-level check to use a scroll if its caster level is higher than yours A scroll with a second-level spell probably has a caster level of 3, but your caster level is 3, so, you should be able to. Even if your DM requires a caster check, the DC for this is pretty easy to beat. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers. Not getting second-level spells til fourth sucks, but dont count the sorcerer out. Being able to cast the spells you know as often as your spells per day is nothing to dismiss.
Dhavaer 11-15-05, 05:39 PM	You can cast spells from a scroll if: 1. The spell is arcane, not divine. (i.e. bard or wizard/sorcerer spell rather than druid, cleric, paladin or ranger.) 2. The spell is on your list. (Under Sorcerer/Wizard in the spell lists in the PHB) 3. You have the requesite ability score. (12 Charisma or better for a 2nd level Sorcerer spell) Since you can't cast 2nd level spells yet, though, you have to make a caster level check. Assuming the scroll was made by a wizard (the default crafter) than you have to take a caster level check. You roll 1d20+your caster level against a DC of 3 (for the crafter's level) +1. So you can probably use the scroll, but it can be a little risky.