Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Grogmir 02-23-07, 11:21 AM	Hi there I’m creating a Beguiler/Focused Wizard that’s going to go Ultimate Magus (If Possible) – however my question is this. Beguiler is all about illusion and Enchantment spells. If I was to take Focused Mage and choose illusion and Enchantment as my disallowed classed, would that stop me casting them as a Beguiler as well? Regards Grogmir
Puca 02-23-07, 11:26 AM	No. The classes are completely independent. The restrictions on one (wizard) have no bearing on the class abilities of the other (beguiler.) As long as the illusion/enchantment spells are on the Beguilers class-list, you can use spell trigger and spell completion items that duplicate those spells as well.
Grogmir 02-23-07, 11:30 AM	Cheers Puca, Can you adivse on Bonus Metamagic feats. For example the Beguiler class get still spell at level 5 IIRC, I don’t think I’m going to get that high very soon but If I did would I then be able to use it on the Wizard spells? Regards Andrew
tarkin 02-23-07, 11:32 AM	You can tell if a class is independent if: 1) It has a seperate class list. 2) It has a seperate chart for gaining spells per level.
Puca 02-23-07, 11:41 AM	If you have the feat, you can use it on any spell you can cast. It doesnt matter where the feat came from. Unless there is some limiting wording in the beguilers description, which I doubt, you can use it on wizard spells too. In addition, using the Scribe Scroll feat you got as a wizard bonus, you could scribe spells you know by virtue of being a beguiler. Incidentally, if you are multiclassing those two, you may wish to look at the Ultimate Magus PrC, which is in CM, but is also out as an excerpt here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061010a&page=3).
CantripN 02-23-07, 11:46 AM	Good feats for you could be Quicken, Sculpt, Extend, Empower...
Grogmir 02-23-07, 11:55 AM	Hi Puca, Cheers for your excellent and clear advice but you may want to relook at my orginal Post! LOL…. Ulitmate Magus here I come! It’s pretty obvious that this is my first spellcaster. She’s the backup to a Halfling Knight and a Human Paladin so I’ve got to have a few strings to my bow, I’m also thinking about taken Arcane Disciple getting the Healing Domain, so I can also help out with the healing aspect. Yeah metamagic feats could be the way to go the only trouble is that they add to the spell level and this combo is going to get a lot of low level spells but not many high level ones for a while. So I may hold off on them at first then get them later. Oh yeah for feats, as I will mostly be buffing so I was thinking about extend spell being a good one. Regards Grogmir (Andrew who’s Andrew? Never met him!)
CantripN 02-23-07, 12:06 PM	Adny, have you read the UM description? You get to use Metamagic rather well using your Augmented Casting...
Grogmir 02-23-07, 12:12 PM	Hi CantripN Have I been naughty? Am I in the corner of wrongness? ;) :D I’ll re-read it when I get home. Homework Eck! Cheers for your advice guys :) I’m going to make these good two shoes (or is that goody four shoes in this case?). :confused: Rule the world!
Puca 02-23-07, 12:28 PM	Cheers for your excellent and clear advice but you may want to relook at my orginal Post! LOL….Duh! I’m also thinking about taken Arcane Disciple getting the Healing Domain, so I can also help out with the healing aspect.I really dislike the Arcane Disciple feat. You add a domain to your class-list, which will go well with the beguiler since his class-list and spells-known are the same, but you still only get to cast those spell once per day, and you need a sufficiently high Wis to do so. You may be better off using potions and getting a wand of CLW for the paladin. Yeah metamagic feats could be the way to go the only trouble is that they add to the spell level and this combo is going to get a lot of low level spells but not many high level ones for a while. So I may hold off on them at first then get them later. Two things: (I know this is cheesy, but apparently it works) the UM levels 1, 4, and 7 only increase the casting of your class with the "lowest caster level" but you can take the Practiced Spellcaster feat, and with it increase the caster level of your lower-level class. By doing this, you advance in your more powerful class. For example, if you enter the PrC as a Beguiler2/wizard3, you normally would advance to cast as a Beguiler3/wizard3. But, if you took Practiced Spellcaster, you would advance to cast as a Beguiler2/wizard4 because your beguiler caster-level was really higher (6). Using this "trick" you dont fall behind straight casters as much. Second, metamagic is the real power of the UM. No matter how many spells you can cast, there are still only so many actions you can take. You want the quality more than the quantity. At, say, level 15, using the above trick, you cast spells as a wizard 13 and as a beguiler 9. A regular wizard can cast 8th-level spells and you can only cast 7th, but you can Quicken 5th-level spells and he cannot. There is the power of the UM.