A quintet of spells... what level would you put these at? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A quintet of spells... what level would you put these at? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Amnarii
06-08-06, 12:54 AM Okay, all I have are titles and descriptions; I need all the mechanics worked out... well, I have some of the mechanics for effects but the entire title block is blank. I just am in a hurry and want to get this stuff down before I forget it or change it...lol

Corruption
When you cast this spell, touch a single target (unwilling targets require a touch attack roll). There is no initial saving throw, but spell resistance applies. 24 hours after the spell affects the target, and once more every 24 hours thereafter, until one month (30 days) has passed, the target must make a Will saving throw or gain a step in their alignment shift towards evil. Each failed save adds a point to this alignment shift, 10 points shift from good to neutral, 10 more shift from neutral to evil. A successful save causes 1d2-1 points of non-lethal damage. This spell does not affect evil creatures, except to negate the effects of another spell shifting them towards neutrality or a good alignment.

Purification
When you cast this spell, touch a single target (unwilling targets require a touch attack roll). There is no initial saving throw, but spell resistance applies. 24 hours after the spell affects the target, and once more every 24 hours thereafter, until one month (30 days) has passed, the target must make a Will saving throw or gain a step in their alignment shift towards good. Each failed save adds a point to this alignment shift, 10 points shift from evil to neutral, 10 more shift from neutral to good. A successful save causes 1d2-1 points of non-lethal damage. This spell does not affect good creatures, except to negate the effects of another spell shifting them towards neutrality or a evil alignment.

Judicial
When you cast this spell, touch a single target (unwilling targets require a touch attack roll). There is no initial saving throw, but spell resistance applies. 24 hours after the spell affects the target, and once more every 24 hours thereafter, until one month (30 days) has passed, the target must make a Will saving throw or gain a step in their alignment shift towards lawful. Each failed save adds a point to this alignment shift, 10 points shift from chaotic to neutral, 10 more shift from neutral to lawful. A successful save causes 1d2-1 points of non-lethal damage. This spell does not affect lawful creatures, except to negate the effects of another spell shifting them towards neutrality or a chaotic alignment.

Anarchistic
When you cast this spell, touch a single target (unwilling targets require a touch attack roll). There is no initial saving throw, but spell resistance applies. 24 hours after the spell affects the target, and once more every 24 hours thereafter, until one month (30 days) has passed, the target must make a Will saving throw or gain a step in their alignment shift towards chaotic. Each failed save adds a point to this alignment shift, 10 points shift from lawful to neutral, 10 more shift from neutral to chaotic. A successful save causes 1d2-1 points of non-lethal damage. This spell does not affect chaotic creatures, except to negate the effects of another spell shifting them towards neutrality or a lawful alignment.

Detachment
When you cast this spell, touch a single target (unwilling targets require a touch attack roll). There is no initial saving throw, but spell resistance applies. 24 hours after the spell affects the target, and once more every 24 hours thereafter, until one month (30 days) has passed, the target must make a Will saving throw or gain a step in their alignment shift towards neutrality. Each failed save adds a point to this alignment shift, 10 points shift from good or evil to neutral, 10 more shift from lawful or chaotic to neutral. A successful save causes 1d2-1 points of non-lethal damage. This spell does not affect neutral creatures, except to negate the effects of another spell shifting them towards any other alignment.

[edit] so basically, whichever version of the spell is cast has 30 days to force 1 save a day (30 saves), and if you fail 10 of those saves you shift one alignment step - which could be devastating to certain characters. Another 10 failed saves in those 30 days, and you shift a second step in your alignment. Even when you succeed a save, you may take a point of nonlethal damage (1d2-1 is 0 or 1, so maybe none).
belthazzar1113
06-08-06, 12:58 AM 7th level if the effects are temporary, 9th if they are permenent.
Amnarii
06-08-06, 01:00 AM Well, the effects of the spells are permanent, but there is nothing keeping the character (perhaps with aid from their friends) from changing the alignment back to normal, or anything else... just as any character can change their alignment at any time through actions.
belthazzar1113
06-08-06, 01:07 AM Well, the effects of the spells are permanent, but there is nothing from the character (perhaps with aid from their friends) from changing the alignment back to normal, or anything else... just as any character can change their alignment at any time through actions.

imposing massive xp peneltys which amount to perment level drain which no non epic spell can do. 9th level at least, possibly with an xp component.
Amnarii
06-08-06, 01:14 AM imposing massive xp peneltys which amount to perment level drain which no non epic spell can do. 9th level at least, possibly with an xp component.
I am not disagreeing with it being a 9th level spell, or possibly requiring XP component... but where do you get an alignment shift as imposing XP penalties?

Do you mean the possible loss of class abilities through alignment shift, such as paladin or bard no longer being lawful? There is a huge loss there, to be sure - but no XP loss at all to my knowledge...

Or do you actually mean changing alignments penalizes your XP? If you believe that, I believe you are referencing a house rule, not core rules... I've never seen it in the books that any alignment change imposes any penalties to XP.

Of course - I could be mistaken in that... it has happened once or twice before.
prozacman
06-08-06, 01:51 AM if your wielding a good aligned weapon, and you shift to evil.. you loose levels (this could be viewed as XP loss)

and if your a paladin you become a warrior pretty much.. thats worse than xp loss
Amnarii
06-08-06, 02:05 AM a negative level is temporary and doesn't touch your XP total. Losing class abilities is also a huge problem, but again doesn't touch your XP total. I'm not saying that they don't affect you, simply that it is not XP loss.

Also, there are a ton of effects out there that can shift alignment already... the first one off the top of my head is Lycanthropy... but I know if I spend a bit of time looking into it, I could list off a dozen or more spells and effects which change alignment, either temporarily or permanently (again with the caveat that alignments can shift back, naturally or with the use of spells).

Finally, there are several spells of various levels (definitely as low as 7th, possibly lower) which can restore an alignment changed by any means, the first few of which to come to mind are limited wish and greater restoration.
Yaeri
06-08-06, 03:15 AM What are the options for removing this spell? Remove curse? Dispel magic? Limited wish?
Unless none of these regulars work, I definetely would not put the spell at ninth level. There are instant kill spells and such at level 9. Those spells are instant and ranged. The spell you propose allows 30 saving throws of which you have to fail at least 10. My first thought when I read your post was actually: "wow, plenty of time to stop that effect." And even if the usual dispels don't work, you have plenty of time to use protections to help you with your next saving throws.

I would put this spell at level 6. If the spell's progress can be stopped and the spell's effect be cured. The outcome of the spell is stronger than level 6, but the incredibly slow progress of the spell (10 days at minimum) makes it far less threatening.
Amnarii
06-14-06, 10:12 PM I was out of town for a bit, so delayed reply...

But yeah - you're thinking closer to where I was thinking. I would allow all the standard spells to break it, except maybe not remove curse, since it isn't written as a curse yet. I could rewrite the spell as a curse with ease (since I don't have much detail yet), but I didn't have that initial flavor in mind.

Any other thoughts?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Amnarii 06-08-06, 12:54 AM	Okay, all I have are titles and descriptions; I need all the mechanics worked out... well, I have some of the mechanics for effects but the entire title block is blank. I just am in a hurry and want to get this stuff down before I forget it or change it...lol Corruption When you cast this spell, touch a single target (unwilling targets require a touch attack roll). There is no initial saving throw, but spell resistance applies. 24 hours after the spell affects the target, and once more every 24 hours thereafter, until one month (30 days) has passed, the target must make a Will saving throw or gain a step in their alignment shift towards evil. Each failed save adds a point to this alignment shift, 10 points shift from good to neutral, 10 more shift from neutral to evil. A successful save causes 1d2-1 points of non-lethal damage. This spell does not affect evil creatures, except to negate the effects of another spell shifting them towards neutrality or a good alignment. Purification When you cast this spell, touch a single target (unwilling targets require a touch attack roll). There is no initial saving throw, but spell resistance applies. 24 hours after the spell affects the target, and once more every 24 hours thereafter, until one month (30 days) has passed, the target must make a Will saving throw or gain a step in their alignment shift towards good. Each failed save adds a point to this alignment shift, 10 points shift from evil to neutral, 10 more shift from neutral to good. A successful save causes 1d2-1 points of non-lethal damage. This spell does not affect good creatures, except to negate the effects of another spell shifting them towards neutrality or a evil alignment. Judicial When you cast this spell, touch a single target (unwilling targets require a touch attack roll). There is no initial saving throw, but spell resistance applies. 24 hours after the spell affects the target, and once more every 24 hours thereafter, until one month (30 days) has passed, the target must make a Will saving throw or gain a step in their alignment shift towards lawful. Each failed save adds a point to this alignment shift, 10 points shift from chaotic to neutral, 10 more shift from neutral to lawful. A successful save causes 1d2-1 points of non-lethal damage. This spell does not affect lawful creatures, except to negate the effects of another spell shifting them towards neutrality or a chaotic alignment. Anarchistic When you cast this spell, touch a single target (unwilling targets require a touch attack roll). There is no initial saving throw, but spell resistance applies. 24 hours after the spell affects the target, and once more every 24 hours thereafter, until one month (30 days) has passed, the target must make a Will saving throw or gain a step in their alignment shift towards chaotic. Each failed save adds a point to this alignment shift, 10 points shift from lawful to neutral, 10 more shift from neutral to chaotic. A successful save causes 1d2-1 points of non-lethal damage. This spell does not affect chaotic creatures, except to negate the effects of another spell shifting them towards neutrality or a lawful alignment. Detachment When you cast this spell, touch a single target (unwilling targets require a touch attack roll). There is no initial saving throw, but spell resistance applies. 24 hours after the spell affects the target, and once more every 24 hours thereafter, until one month (30 days) has passed, the target must make a Will saving throw or gain a step in their alignment shift towards neutrality. Each failed save adds a point to this alignment shift, 10 points shift from good or evil to neutral, 10 more shift from lawful or chaotic to neutral. A successful save causes 1d2-1 points of non-lethal damage. This spell does not affect neutral creatures, except to negate the effects of another spell shifting them towards any other alignment. [edit] so basically, whichever version of the spell is cast has 30 days to force 1 save a day (30 saves), and if you fail 10 of those saves you shift one alignment step - which could be devastating to certain characters. Another 10 failed saves in those 30 days, and you shift a second step in your alignment. Even when you succeed a save, you may take a point of nonlethal damage (1d2-1 is 0 or 1, so maybe none).
belthazzar1113 06-08-06, 12:58 AM	7th level if the effects are temporary, 9th if they are permenent.
Amnarii 06-08-06, 01:00 AM	Well, the effects of the spells are permanent, but there is nothing keeping the character (perhaps with aid from their friends) from changing the alignment back to normal, or anything else... just as any character can change their alignment at any time through actions.
belthazzar1113 06-08-06, 01:07 AM	Well, the effects of the spells are permanent, but there is nothing from the character (perhaps with aid from their friends) from changing the alignment back to normal, or anything else... just as any character can change their alignment at any time through actions. imposing massive xp peneltys which amount to perment level drain which no non epic spell can do. 9th level at least, possibly with an xp component.
Amnarii 06-08-06, 01:14 AM	imposing massive xp peneltys which amount to perment level drain which no non epic spell can do. 9th level at least, possibly with an xp component. I am not disagreeing with it being a 9th level spell, or possibly requiring XP component... but where do you get an alignment shift as imposing XP penalties? Do you mean the possible loss of class abilities through alignment shift, such as paladin or bard no longer being lawful? There is a huge loss there, to be sure - but no XP loss at all to my knowledge... Or do you actually mean changing alignments penalizes your XP? If you believe that, I believe you are referencing a house rule, not core rules... I've never seen it in the books that any alignment change imposes any penalties to XP. Of course - I could be mistaken in that... it has happened once or twice before.
prozacman 06-08-06, 01:51 AM	if your wielding a good aligned weapon, and you shift to evil.. you loose levels (this could be viewed as XP loss) and if your a paladin you become a warrior pretty much.. thats worse than xp loss
Amnarii 06-08-06, 02:05 AM	a negative level is temporary and doesn't touch your XP total. Losing class abilities is also a huge problem, but again doesn't touch your XP total. I'm not saying that they don't affect you, simply that it is not XP loss. Also, there are a ton of effects out there that can shift alignment already... the first one off the top of my head is Lycanthropy... but I know if I spend a bit of time looking into it, I could list off a dozen or more spells and effects which change alignment, either temporarily or permanently (again with the caveat that alignments can shift back, naturally or with the use of spells). Finally, there are several spells of various levels (definitely as low as 7th, possibly lower) which can restore an alignment changed by any means, the first few of which to come to mind are limited wish and greater restoration.
Yaeri 06-08-06, 03:15 AM	What are the options for removing this spell? Remove curse? Dispel magic? Limited wish? Unless none of these regulars work, I definetely would not put the spell at ninth level. There are instant kill spells and such at level 9. Those spells are instant and ranged. The spell you propose allows 30 saving throws of which you have to fail at least 10. My first thought when I read your post was actually: "wow, plenty of time to stop that effect." And even if the usual dispels don't work, you have plenty of time to use protections to help you with your next saving throws. I would put this spell at level 6. If the spell's progress can be stopped and the spell's effect be cured. The outcome of the spell is stronger than level 6, but the incredibly slow progress of the spell (10 days at minimum) makes it far less threatening.
Amnarii 06-14-06, 10:12 PM	I was out of town for a bit, so delayed reply... But yeah - you're thinking closer to where I was thinking. I would allow all the standard spells to break it, except maybe not remove curse, since it isn't written as a curse yet. I could rewrite the spell as a curse with ease (since I don't have much detail yet), but I didn't have that initial flavor in mind. Any other thoughts?