A ring problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

A ring problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
NestroEmichae
02-23-04, 12:17 AM One of my players, frustrated with having to wait until epic levels to get rings giving immunity to energy types, approached me with an alternate method of creating them that makes them non-epic:

By using the spell Energy Immunity (Draconomicon and Tome and Blood) to create the rings. Since it has a minimum caster level of 11 and is a 6th level spell at minimum, I decided to check it out.

My results:

6th level x Caster level 11 x 2000gp x 0.5 (the spell has a duration of 24 hours), or 66,000 gp for the base price.

Thr ring is supposed to be continuous. However, the Epic version uses Protection from Energy and is 240,000 gp.

I'm asking you to check my math and see if I am off on this one. My decision on this shall come after I see the results.
Eldren
02-23-04, 03:26 AM You can save quite a bit of money with spells that have a 24-hour duration by simply making the item so it only has one use a day. Since the duration is 24 hours, all you really have to worry about is being hit with Dispel Magic, Greater Dispelling, Anti-Magic Field or Mordenkainen's Disjunction, and of those, only the latter would actually ruin the ring itself; all the others would either suppress it (Anti-Magic Field, and once you're out, if the duration is still going, you're good), and the first two would only ruin that day's casting.

This is the same logic with making an item that casts Mind Blank once a day; I firmly believe that every Wizard with "Craft Wondrous Item" ought to make an item that does this (I did it with a necklace with my Archmage); with the 24-hour duration, barring unusual circumstances as mentioned above, you're effectively getting an always-on item, since it can only be used once a day but its duration is 24 hours.

Your math is accurate. You should, however, feel free to apply situational modifiers to the price, as the Dungeon Master's Guide recommends. If you perceive the item's actual worth to be greater than the mechanical values would list it as, then change its value. Those are meant to be guidelines, not hard and fast rules.

With all this being said, if your player is looking for a Ring of Universal Elemental Immunity, or even just a single energy immunity, keep in mind that those are still Epic items, and as such, ought not to be in the hands of non-Epic characters, as the power levels completely blow open the non-Epic CR/EL system. However, consider the sidebar on the bottom of page 136 of the Epic Level Handbook. It features a non-Epic ring called the Lesser Ring of Universal Elemental Resistance, which gives a blanket energy resistance of 15 to all energy types, highly valuable. The cost is 144,000 for this item, so consider offering that instead. Since he's non-Epic and it's a non-Epic item, it's an item that's well within the capacity of a non-Epic item crafter to make.
NestroEmichae
02-23-04, 05:19 PM Thanks.

To be honest, I plan to tell him that the energies prove too much for the crafting at this time and to offer him the one you suggested. However, this is showing a danger that has cropped up with some of the spells that are in supplements these days.
Seeker95
02-23-04, 06:43 PM Originally posted by NestroEmichae
However, this is showing a danger that has cropped up with some of the spells that are in supplements these days. Which is why I use the core rule contents only. Anything a player finds in a supplement can be researched, and if the research is successful, then it is allowed in the game.

I never allow a third-party / new spell to simply "exist already" in my world. It raises too much fuss when I finally say no to something. By having the default be "research it and see", it limits the number of adjudications I as DM have to make to those spells the players really want to have access to. And they know my style enough to not even try to research yellow-brick-road builders!
Ehelonna
02-23-04, 07:11 PM Originally posted by NestroEmichae
By using the spell Energy Immunity (Draconomicon and Tome and Blood) to create the rings. Since it has a minimum caster level of 11 and is a 6th level spell at minimum, I decided to check it out.

My results:

6th level x Caster level 11 x 2000gp x 0.5 (the spell has a duration of 24 hours), or 66,000 gp for the base price.That would be a reasonable price if you are allowing it in your campaign.

As an interesting aside, compare this with the armour enhancement: Fire resistance, greater +66,000 gp. The same price but immunity instead of -30 h.p. per attack. Of course the armour is paying the +50% penalty for adding an additional power to an item. :angel:
J. Grenemyer
02-23-04, 07:34 PM Wait a second,

Doesn't the Ring found in the ELH protect against all energy types?

:confused:
NestroEmichae
02-23-04, 08:07 PM Originally posted by J. Grenemyer
Wait a second,

Doesn't the Ring found in the ELH protect against all energy types?

:confused:

That's Universal Energy Immunity. Energy Immunity is a lesser form that protects against only one type.

Which is why I use the core rule contents only. Anything a player finds in a supplement can be researched, and if the research is successful, then it is allowed in the game.

I never allow a third-party / new spell to simply "exist already" in my world. It raises too much fuss when I finally say no to something. By having the default be "research it and see", it limits the number of adjudications I as DM have to make to those spells the players really want to have access to. And they know my style enough to not even try to research yellow-brick-road builders!

I allow them to exist already, with the exception of the ones I ban, but you have to find them if you don't like research. The spells of the MotP typically are found scattered throughout the planes, while dragons have done their best to limit the availibility of the ones from the Draconomicon.

An interesting side note: The staves that allow a person to control dragons have almost been entirely destroyed and the instructions for making them have been lost. One of each type of stave can be found in the lairs of some great wyrms (about .01% of the total), but the instructions are only found in ancient temples that are long forgotten and often not even sought by the players until epic levels.

As an interesting aside, compare this with the armour enhancement: Fire resistance, greater +66,000 gp. The same price but immunity instead of -30 h.p. per attack. Of course the armour is paying the +50% penalty for adding an additional power to an item.

True. However, the difference is still huge even when you consider that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NestroEmichae 02-23-04, 12:17 AM	One of my players, frustrated with having to wait until epic levels to get rings giving immunity to energy types, approached me with an alternate method of creating them that makes them non-epic: By using the spell Energy Immunity (Draconomicon and Tome and Blood) to create the rings. Since it has a minimum caster level of 11 and is a 6th level spell at minimum, I decided to check it out. My results: 6th level x Caster level 11 x 2000gp x 0.5 (the spell has a duration of 24 hours), or 66,000 gp for the base price. Thr ring is supposed to be continuous. However, the Epic version uses Protection from Energy and is 240,000 gp. I'm asking you to check my math and see if I am off on this one. My decision on this shall come after I see the results.
Eldren 02-23-04, 03:26 AM	You can save quite a bit of money with spells that have a 24-hour duration by simply making the item so it only has one use a day. Since the duration is 24 hours, all you really have to worry about is being hit with Dispel Magic, Greater Dispelling, Anti-Magic Field or Mordenkainen's Disjunction, and of those, only the latter would actually ruin the ring itself; all the others would either suppress it (Anti-Magic Field, and once you're out, if the duration is still going, you're good), and the first two would only ruin that day's casting. This is the same logic with making an item that casts Mind Blank once a day; I firmly believe that every Wizard with "Craft Wondrous Item" ought to make an item that does this (I did it with a necklace with my Archmage); with the 24-hour duration, barring unusual circumstances as mentioned above, you're effectively getting an always-on item, since it can only be used once a day but its duration is 24 hours. Your math is accurate. You should, however, feel free to apply situational modifiers to the price, as the Dungeon Master's Guide recommends. If you perceive the item's actual worth to be greater than the mechanical values would list it as, then change its value. Those are meant to be guidelines, not hard and fast rules. With all this being said, if your player is looking for a Ring of Universal Elemental Immunity, or even just a single energy immunity, keep in mind that those are still Epic items, and as such, ought not to be in the hands of non-Epic characters, as the power levels completely blow open the non-Epic CR/EL system. However, consider the sidebar on the bottom of page 136 of the Epic Level Handbook. It features a non-Epic ring called the Lesser Ring of Universal Elemental Resistance, which gives a blanket energy resistance of 15 to all energy types, highly valuable. The cost is 144,000 for this item, so consider offering that instead. Since he's non-Epic and it's a non-Epic item, it's an item that's well within the capacity of a non-Epic item crafter to make.
NestroEmichae 02-23-04, 05:19 PM	Thanks. To be honest, I plan to tell him that the energies prove too much for the crafting at this time and to offer him the one you suggested. However, this is showing a danger that has cropped up with some of the spells that are in supplements these days.
Seeker95 02-23-04, 06:43 PM	Originally posted by NestroEmichae However, this is showing a danger that has cropped up with some of the spells that are in supplements these days. Which is why I use the core rule contents only. Anything a player finds in a supplement can be researched, and if the research is successful, then it is allowed in the game. I never allow a third-party / new spell to simply "exist already" in my world. It raises too much fuss when I finally say no to something. By having the default be "research it and see", it limits the number of adjudications I as DM have to make to those spells the players really want to have access to. And they know my style enough to not even try to research yellow-brick-road builders!
Ehelonna 02-23-04, 07:11 PM	Originally posted by NestroEmichae By using the spell Energy Immunity (Draconomicon and Tome and Blood) to create the rings. Since it has a minimum caster level of 11 and is a 6th level spell at minimum, I decided to check it out. My results: 6th level x Caster level 11 x 2000gp x 0.5 (the spell has a duration of 24 hours), or 66,000 gp for the base price.That would be a reasonable price if you are allowing it in your campaign. As an interesting aside, compare this with the armour enhancement: Fire resistance, greater +66,000 gp. The same price but immunity instead of -30 h.p. per attack. Of course the armour is paying the +50% penalty for adding an additional power to an item. :angel:
J. Grenemyer 02-23-04, 07:34 PM	Wait a second, Doesn't the Ring found in the ELH protect against all energy types? :confused:
NestroEmichae 02-23-04, 08:07 PM	Originally posted by J. Grenemyer Wait a second, Doesn't the Ring found in the ELH protect against all energy types? :confused: That's Universal Energy Immunity. Energy Immunity is a lesser form that protects against only one type. Which is why I use the core rule contents only. Anything a player finds in a supplement can be researched, and if the research is successful, then it is allowed in the game. I never allow a third-party / new spell to simply "exist already" in my world. It raises too much fuss when I finally say no to something. By having the default be "research it and see", it limits the number of adjudications I as DM have to make to those spells the players really want to have access to. And they know my style enough to not even try to research yellow-brick-road builders! I allow them to exist already, with the exception of the ones I ban, but you have to find them if you don't like research. The spells of the MotP typically are found scattered throughout the planes, while dragons have done their best to limit the availibility of the ones from the Draconomicon. An interesting side note: The staves that allow a person to control dragons have almost been entirely destroyed and the instructions for making them have been lost. One of each type of stave can be found in the lairs of some great wyrms (about .01% of the total), but the instructions are only found in ancient temples that are long forgotten and often not even sought by the players until epic levels. As an interesting aside, compare this with the armour enhancement: Fire resistance, greater +66,000 gp. The same price but immunity instead of -30 h.p. per attack. Of course the armour is paying the +50% penalty for adding an additional power to an item. True. However, the difference is still huge even when you consider that.