A Spin on Core Magic (P.E.A.C.H.) [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Spin on Core Magic (P.E.A.C.H.) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Malakai_Demonos
05-16-06, 05:25 PM As a player and a DM I have always loved magic and magic users. Besides being very powerful and unique, magic is never dull. However, being a semi-creative guy, I have always looked for ways to make magic different in my worlds. I have come up with one way that I think is awesome and yet not too game breaking. I have only done the core classes and I may work on the non-core classes at another time. Wheel, Here it is:

Clerics: The greater gods created the cosmos and they can destroy it. The lesser gods are the progenerators and protectors of magic. Those who worship the lesser gods with all of their will are granted power and access to the magic of the gods. This magic is drawn from the gods and because of such, clerics need only go through the motions of casting their spells and the gods will do the rest.

*Clerics no longer have to have expensive material components or focuses. They need only have their god's divine focus, their god's holy symbol.

Sorcerers: Magic was created by the greater gods when they gave birth to the current universe. The magic that built the multiverse still flows threw all of creation. Many are able to harness the power of nature and some can tap into the arcane winds. However, some creatures are born with a connection to the magicka flows that many cannot understand. Whether these creatures are descended from outsiders, dragons, or even gods remains undetermined. One thing that is known however, is that these individuals have magic in their very blood. Sorcerers have such a strong connection with magic that they can cast complex spells with no outside help.

*Sorcerers no longer need any material components or focuses, regardless of cost, to cast their spells.

Wizards: Some need to pray to the gods for their spells, some have to rely on the magic of nature to give them power, some have magic in their blood, and there are some who command magic by their very own power or will. Magicka is everywhere and some can tap into it by their own accord. By using objects in nature and a focus, wizards can unleash powerful forces from the most mondane of objects. Sometimes a wizard can unleash the power of magic by focusing the magic he was created with through an object that is feared and recognized by all, the wizard's staff.

*Wizards are masters of manipulation but must focus their power through their staff to cast a spell. But because of this, a wizard may add the enhancement bonus of his staff to his caster level to overcome spell resistance and the save DC of his spells.

A wizard must designate one staff and only one staff that is his wizard's staff. To do so, he must spend mediatate and perform a ritual 24 hours strait with out doing anything else and use special incents and oils worth 500gp. Because of this, a wizard's staff is special to a wizard and he is usually in debt to his master or his college until he can repay them for this cost and the thousands of gold that his training cost.

However, a wizard must craft his own staff to gain any of the benefits of it. He can still cast spells through a staff he didn't create but he will not gain the benefits it would normally grant him for his spell casting. Also, if a wizard crafts a master work wizards staff, he may add that masterwork bonus to his enhancement bonus to determine his caster level for overcoming spell resistance and his spell save DCs. A wizard must also magically enhance his staff to gain its bonuses. However, he may use craft wondrous item to do so.

So what do you think and is the wizard's staff too powerful.
Bob_The_Wizard
05-16-06, 07:42 PM I think that the wizards' staff is about balanced with the additional abilities granted to clerics and sorcerers, but I'd advise giving a bonus to all of the other classes, to help even things out.
Sian_Son_of_Cune
05-16-06, 08:01 PM Interesting concept, but how do you handle spells like stoneskin, and raise dead that have costly material components to help game balance? May I also suggest allowing wizards to cast very simple magics like cantrips without the aid of a staff.
Malakai_Demonos
05-16-06, 11:08 PM I do realize that expensive material components and foci are a VERY big part of spell balance. However, I hate the conscept of material components for those who get their spells from the gods or are born with magic in their blood. And the only thing stopping one of my characters or anyone in my world from making an army of undead would be controlling and organizing that army, and also the retribution of the people in my world. As far as the true res thing, I am going to institute that those who are brought back from the dead have a chance of coming back wrong or weaker even if true res is used. I am also thinking of allowing all of the magic classes to cast cantrips or orsirons at will. I will also pry get around to changing the other spell casting classes as well.
Malakai_Demonos
05-16-06, 11:39 PM Here is my take on druids:

Druids: Nature is full of magic. From secret grooves that are cites of powerful ancient magicka to the very grass, trees, and dirt that many take for granted, nature is magic. However, there are some who do not take this for granted and rightly revere nature and try to protect its balance. These guardians of nature are able to tap into the divine magic that is left over from the universes creation. There are a few who argue that these people drain nature of its magic; however, many druids claim that nature chose them and that nature will take back its power if it is abused.

*Druids and rangers no longer need to have material components or foci regardless of their price. However, neither can where metal armor and if they use a manufactured weapon, they must perform a ritual lasting 24 hours and performed in a sacred druidic grove to give the weapon back to nature to allow themselves to use it.
Vaelan
05-17-06, 02:16 AM I wouldn't allow a staff to grant +5 to save DCs. Increases to save DCs are very powerful and very dangerous to implement.
The_WhiteRabbit
05-17-06, 05:09 AM Here is my take on druids:

Druids: Nature is full of magic. From secret grooves that are cites of powerful ancient magicka to the very grass, trees, and dirt that many take for granted, nature is magic. However, there are some who do not take this for granted and rightly revere nature and try to protect its balance. These guardians of nature are able to tap into the divine magic that is left over from the universes creation. There are a few who argue that these people drain nature of its magic; however, many druids claim that nature chose them and that nature will take back its power if it is abused.

*Druids and rangers no longer need to have material components or foci regardless of their price. However, neither can where metal armor and if they use a manufactured weapon, they must perform a ritual lasting 24 hours and performed in a sacred druidic grove to give the weapon back to nature to allow themselves to use it.

Totally screws Rangers.

If you're looking for more balance for raise dead, etc . . . just change it to an experience cost instead.

For Sorcerers, since the magic is in their blood--maybe a HP cost instead of expensive material components? You also might want to consider giving them a d6 hit die if you institute this
Thiez
05-17-06, 05:53 AM I love it, especially the cantrips and orisons at will. I have been thinking about something like that too lately, because I find it strange that a level 20 wiz/sor/clr had less cantrips to cast than spells of just about any other level. You don't get bonus-cantrips...

I like the idea of the Wizard's staff. Maybe it could function like a spellbook too. Wizards would then use runes to craft their spells on their staffs. Those runes could be made invisible to all but the wizard (so we don't have people running around, using read magic to know what an enemy wizard is able of casting) and visible again with a command word.
Thiez
05-17-06, 05:33 PM :bump: bump
Thiez
05-19-06, 04:45 AM :bump: :bump: :bump: :bump: :bump: :bump: :bump: c'mon guys, this Malakai_Demonos-person has a good idea :P

I wonder, though, how are you going to balance the removal of the expensive material components when it comes to resurrection 'n stuff?

Will you change anything about the XP-cost of some spells?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Malakai_Demonos 05-16-06, 05:25 PM	As a player and a DM I have always loved magic and magic users. Besides being very powerful and unique, magic is never dull. However, being a semi-creative guy, I have always looked for ways to make magic different in my worlds. I have come up with one way that I think is awesome and yet not too game breaking. I have only done the core classes and I may work on the non-core classes at another time. Wheel, Here it is: Clerics: The greater gods created the cosmos and they can destroy it. The lesser gods are the progenerators and protectors of magic. Those who worship the lesser gods with all of their will are granted power and access to the magic of the gods. This magic is drawn from the gods and because of such, clerics need only go through the motions of casting their spells and the gods will do the rest. Clerics no longer have to have expensive material components or focuses. They need only have their god's divine focus, their god's holy symbol. Sorcerers: Magic was created by the greater gods when they gave birth to the current universe. The magic that built the multiverse still flows threw all of creation. Many are able to harness the power of nature and some can tap into the arcane winds. However, some creatures are born with a connection to the magicka flows that many cannot understand. Whether these creatures are descended from outsiders, dragons, or even gods remains undetermined. One thing that is known however, is that these individuals have magic in their very blood. Sorcerers have such a strong connection with magic that they can cast complex spells with no outside help. Sorcerers no longer need any material components or focuses, regardless of cost, to cast their spells. Wizards: Some need to pray to the gods for their spells, some have to rely on the magic of nature to give them power, some have magic in their blood, and there are some who command magic by their very own power or will. Magicka is everywhere and some can tap into it by their own accord. By using objects in nature and a focus, wizards can unleash powerful forces from the most mondane of objects. Sometimes a wizard can unleash the power of magic by focusing the magic he was created with through an object that is feared and recognized by all, the wizard's staff. *Wizards are masters of manipulation but must focus their power through their staff to cast a spell. But because of this, a wizard may add the enhancement bonus of his staff to his caster level to overcome spell resistance and the save DC of his spells. A wizard must designate one staff and only one staff that is his wizard's staff. To do so, he must spend mediatate and perform a ritual 24 hours strait with out doing anything else and use special incents and oils worth 500gp. Because of this, a wizard's staff is special to a wizard and he is usually in debt to his master or his college until he can repay them for this cost and the thousands of gold that his training cost. However, a wizard must craft his own staff to gain any of the benefits of it. He can still cast spells through a staff he didn't create but he will not gain the benefits it would normally grant him for his spell casting. Also, if a wizard crafts a master work wizards staff, he may add that masterwork bonus to his enhancement bonus to determine his caster level for overcoming spell resistance and his spell save DCs. A wizard must also magically enhance his staff to gain its bonuses. However, he may use craft wondrous item to do so. So what do you think and is the wizard's staff too powerful.
Bob_The_Wizard 05-16-06, 07:42 PM	I think that the wizards' staff is about balanced with the additional abilities granted to clerics and sorcerers, but I'd advise giving a bonus to all of the other classes, to help even things out.
Sian_Son_of_Cune 05-16-06, 08:01 PM	Interesting concept, but how do you handle spells like stoneskin, and raise dead that have costly material components to help game balance? May I also suggest allowing wizards to cast very simple magics like cantrips without the aid of a staff.
Malakai_Demonos 05-16-06, 11:08 PM	I do realize that expensive material components and foci are a VERY big part of spell balance. However, I hate the conscept of material components for those who get their spells from the gods or are born with magic in their blood. And the only thing stopping one of my characters or anyone in my world from making an army of undead would be controlling and organizing that army, and also the retribution of the people in my world. As far as the true res thing, I am going to institute that those who are brought back from the dead have a chance of coming back wrong or weaker even if true res is used. I am also thinking of allowing all of the magic classes to cast cantrips or orsirons at will. I will also pry get around to changing the other spell casting classes as well.
Malakai_Demonos 05-16-06, 11:39 PM	Here is my take on druids: Druids: Nature is full of magic. From secret grooves that are cites of powerful ancient magicka to the very grass, trees, and dirt that many take for granted, nature is magic. However, there are some who do not take this for granted and rightly revere nature and try to protect its balance. These guardians of nature are able to tap into the divine magic that is left over from the universes creation. There are a few who argue that these people drain nature of its magic; however, many druids claim that nature chose them and that nature will take back its power if it is abused. *Druids and rangers no longer need to have material components or foci regardless of their price. However, neither can where metal armor and if they use a manufactured weapon, they must perform a ritual lasting 24 hours and performed in a sacred druidic grove to give the weapon back to nature to allow themselves to use it.
Vaelan 05-17-06, 02:16 AM	I wouldn't allow a staff to grant +5 to save DCs. Increases to save DCs are very powerful and very dangerous to implement.
The_WhiteRabbit 05-17-06, 05:09 AM	Here is my take on druids: Druids: Nature is full of magic. From secret grooves that are cites of powerful ancient magicka to the very grass, trees, and dirt that many take for granted, nature is magic. However, there are some who do not take this for granted and rightly revere nature and try to protect its balance. These guardians of nature are able to tap into the divine magic that is left over from the universes creation. There are a few who argue that these people drain nature of its magic; however, many druids claim that nature chose them and that nature will take back its power if it is abused. *Druids and rangers no longer need to have material components or foci regardless of their price. However, neither can where metal armor and if they use a manufactured weapon, they must perform a ritual lasting 24 hours and performed in a sacred druidic grove to give the weapon back to nature to allow themselves to use it. Totally screws Rangers. If you're looking for more balance for raise dead, etc . . . just change it to an experience cost instead. For Sorcerers, since the magic is in their blood--maybe a HP cost instead of expensive material components? You also might want to consider giving them a d6 hit die if you institute this
Thiez 05-17-06, 05:53 AM	I love it, especially the cantrips and orisons at will. I have been thinking about something like that too lately, because I find it strange that a level 20 wiz/sor/clr had less cantrips to cast than spells of just about any other level. You don't get bonus-cantrips... I like the idea of the Wizard's staff. Maybe it could function like a spellbook too. Wizards would then use runes to craft their spells on their staffs. Those runes could be made invisible to all but the wizard (so we don't have people running around, using read magic to know what an enemy wizard is able of casting) and visible again with a command word.
Thiez 05-17-06, 05:33 PM	:bump: bump
Thiez 05-19-06, 04:45 AM	:bump: :bump: :bump: :bump: :bump: :bump: :bump: c'mon guys, this Malakai_Demonos-person has a good idea :P I wonder, though, how are you going to balance the removal of the expensive material components when it comes to resurrection 'n stuff? Will you change anything about the XP-cost of some spells?