Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tehril 11-08-03, 06:40 PM	In honour of all the silly rants about spells I have seen over the years, allow me to present my little rant...all in jest. Do enjoy. CURE SPELLS ARE BROKEN!!! Yes, ladies and germs, these nefarious spells have masqueraded as benign clerical spells for far too long! Sure, Cure Minor Wounds seems harmless enough... and everyone is ALWAYS begging for a Cure Light Wounds... But doesn't that in and of itself point out how vastly over powered these spells are? Not convinced? Then let me prove they are FAR more powerful than any other spell in ANY level they exist in. First of all, they channel positive energy and can harm the undead. Wow... a "healing spell" doing damage? When's the last time you blasted a buddy with Magic Missile and expected him to look better afterwards? (unless you didn't like him...) Second point, it not only heals real hit points, but it also eliminates a like amount of subdual damage! Blashemy!!! Do you expect Shocking Grasp to deal twice as much damage just because your foe is winded? Such power is mind boggling. But the worst (the faint of heart should leave now...)...the absolute WORST effect these healing spells have... is they almost nullify the need for spells such as Raise Dead and they make most adventurers virtually suicidal! After all, as long as you get a Cure spell on you, you're back up and running. YES!!! You heard me! Even the meagre Cure Minor Wounds has the unbeatable property of being able to bring a man back from the brink of death...to stop them IMMDIATELY from dying. Such power should certainly not be found at first or even second level... tis the power of the gods themselves! It is easy to kill... but so very hard to heal. Again I repeat... these nasty spells are so broken that it is a very strange gamer than refuses to request it be cast upon him or her. Indeed...the hordes of characters begging to feel the touch of this spell can only mean...ONLY MEAN... that the family of Cure spells are broken beyond belief. I hereby request that WOTC address this glaring mechanical problem in the next revision... 3.75e. Good day.
ManTimeForgot 11-08-03, 06:46 PM	Damage is overpowered in D&D! When presented with an obvious opponent in D&D the characters always resort to trying to damage their opponent. Damage makes instant death spells tantamount to useless. (On a side note nice tongue in cheek rant, but it can't get placed in 3.75 as long as the natural healing process in D&D is so slow). Thank You all and have a nice day. Signed, The Man Time Forgot
Tehril 11-08-03, 06:54 PM	ManTimeForgot: I humbly concur with your findings. Damage IS overpowered, to the point of being broken, or at least verging on a total collapse resulting in a temporal instability threatening to engulf us all... but that's looking on the bright side of things. Very much so! It seems that no matter where you go or who you talk to, they fixiate on damage and damage out put. Obviously, since everyone wants to do damage...whether by use of weapons or spells... it must be broken. But what shal we do to fix it? I know, you can claim victory over a foe IF you beat him in a game of pokeymon... or MTG...or some such. Or, perhaps the rules should stipulate that everyone must parlay first... and engage in a sharing of cultures, food, dance and song. Then they should work together to form a non violent resolution to their difficulties (Big role playing xp here!). *sigh* Being part of the solution is so much more satisfying than being part of the problem.
Vaalingrade Ashland 11-08-03, 06:54 PM	:bow: [tongue in cheek] The way I see it, the only fix for this is to bump magic up to level 10 or higher. Sure, a bunch of whiners will whine about spellcasters being useless for half the game, but they still get familiars -- I mean look at the toad! It grants +2 to Con -- obviously broken. Maybe thats not enough though, someone somewhere will still want to play a mage and lets face it, magic should be uber rare, so spellcasters should only be NPCs. BTW, did anyone notice the Duration on Hallow? a whole year! I mean jeez, people, you want to let muchkins hallow a place, go off adventuring and expect it to be hallowed when they come back? Yeah, right, you cheesy monty haul. My players are all fighters with sharpened toothbrushes as weapons and they do just fine. None of those really cheesy feats like Quickdraw, or Endurance either. Just fighters. Sure the whine about dying every session, but what do I care about their fun -- I have balance? [tongue in cheek}
Tehril 11-08-03, 07:01 PM	You actually let them use sharpened toothpicks? We found those overpowered. I mean, aside from being able to poke creatures, you should've seen casualties from slivers alone.
Heron_Marked_Blade 11-08-03, 07:35 PM	Broken? You haven't seen broken yet until you see the effect of the class system in D&D. I mean honestly, how reasonable is it to expect that some people get better than others at melee combat, while others focus on ranged combat, and others try to master this intangible magical force, and yet others channel energy from incredibly overpowered beings, and everything remain balanced??? After much thought, I figured out the solution: Limit D&D characters to one class (the COMMONER); remove MAGIC from the game; get rid of all pointy or edged or blunt objects (WEAPONS); and limit everyone to a maximum of 500gp-worth of personal items ever (TREASURE --> greed is the root of all evil). If you get rid of classes, then everything else will fall into place.
Tehril 11-08-03, 08:00 PM	Actually, I make my player WORK for their coppers. That's what the skill system if for. Sure, it's a harsh world...some have died due to exposure and hunger...but hey! They wanted adventure. They got it. OBTW: "Love of money is the root of all evil"... not $$$ is the root. Funny, that's the second time today I've seen that mistake...
Draco Argentum 11-08-03, 08:02 PM	Commoners? You munchkin. You only choose those because their skill list is better than the fighter's. NPC class, I think not.
Heron_Marked_Blade 11-08-03, 08:12 PM	Originally posted by Tehril OBTW: "Love of money is the root of all evil"... not $$$ is the root. You'll notice I didn't say "Money is the root...." I said GREED (I.e. the love of money) is the root of all evil....and I didn't directly quote from the Bible. It was a paraphrase. :) Back to our regularly scheduled Rant.
the Horc 11-08-03, 08:13 PM	Run Frodo! There be trolls about!
Vaalingrade Ashland 11-08-03, 09:10 PM	Originally posted by Draco Argentum Commoners? You munchkin. You only choose those because their skill list is better than the fighter's. NPC class, I think not. I know, with that beefy d4 hit dice, I bet the commoner could fight a kobold and survive. Where's the fun in playing a character for longer than 20 minutes?
Draco Argentum 11-08-03, 09:37 PM	Originally posted by Vaalingrade Ashland I know, with that beefy d4 hit dice, I bet the commoner could fight a kobold and survive. Where's the fun in playing a character for longer than 20 minutes? The way I see it if a toad can't kill your character you're a munchkin. PS: Look the stats of a toad up if you don't get it.
Tehril 11-08-03, 11:19 PM	That's whay commoners shouldn't have pets...like cats. That would make them WAAAAAY to overpowered.
BlaineTog 11-09-03, 12:01 AM	Commoners get a d4 hit dice?!?! How can it be that you ppl haven't seen this glaring break in the universe?!?! Nonono, the Commoner is waaaaay too overpowered. The PCs should be forced to play animals. And not the good animals, either! But then, that brings up a whole slurry of other problems. Like: if they want to play a bird, that's like having continuous Fly!!! Iv they play a cat, they have, like, a +10 to Hide and Move Silently check. +10!!! Better idea: force the PCs to play as plants. Then at least they can't move. But wait! Now they can play trees! Those have a max age of, like, 1000 years! Nonono, this has GOT to go. How about ananimate objects only? No, this won't work either. Now they can have immunity of Fire, Cold, Acid, and Electricity if the paly as a rock. Plus, they can't be killed. ::Light Bulb over head:: !! I've got it!! THe perfect thing for them to play!!! The thing that cab't POSSIBLE be overpowered, since they have no tangible power at all: They all play as Minors (under 18).
Vaalingrade Ashland 11-09-03, 12:18 AM	What ever you do, don't let them play a male age 18 to 35 -- everyone as to listen to them, no matter how stupid thier ideas are! (Hold up can of Gum & Nuts) can you imagine the how much throwing damage a can of this does?! No, players should only play as smells, odors in particular, though none of those odors people may pay attention to, like the smell of algae on a pond.
Tehril 11-09-03, 12:41 AM	You see...now you're just getting silly. Technically speaking, through seeding and whatnot, plants can live for extremely long periods of time... and we wouldn't want players avoiding old age penalties, now would we? Heck...with the seeding or splitting, that's almost like having the innate ability to Clone or Reincarnate yourself. Now who came up with THAT broken idea?
Heron_Marked_Blade 11-09-03, 01:06 AM	See, based on the undeniably broken elements of the game listed here, it's obvious that this game was never playtested. Did any of the designers even roll up a character and try out their own creation? Because based on the unarguable fact that this game is broken, it doesn't look like WotC put two coherent thoughts into D&D. Now that we've settled that, I'm going back to staring at my pet rock. At least I know that IT can't be broken by anything but a hammer.
Tehril 11-09-03, 01:26 AM	But in doing so, you prove that the hammer was never play tested. I mean really... mother nature intended the Rock to be the toughest critter around... until some splat tool creator decided to smelt ore and produce an iron hammer. I mean c'mon... that is sooooo broken. That hammer just shouldn't be able to smash that rock... I think it should be rule 0'd to not be able to do that. Speaking of over power spells, have you looked at Endure Elements lately? As a first level spell, it can single handidly (basically) save you from freezing to death in a storm, prevent any checks in tropical weather (hello? What is a guy in plate mail doing in the bahamas?)... you know! Preventing all sorts of subdual or cold damage that would outright end up killing say...a commoner. Now, this is such a ridiculously overpowererd spell. I think it should give DR 1 against the elements and only last 1 round per level. That would certainly make it much more balanced. Heck... even Flaming Hands cant save you from the cold!
Tehril 11-09-03, 09:17 PM	Have I yet expounded upon the brokeness of the 0th level Daze spell? With Daze, you may make any combat manoever against a target up to 4HD without feat of an AOO. Disarm? Sunder? Grapple? You got it. Why, you could even Daze an Enlarged, spiked chain wielder and take him down without any trouble at all. And we know how that should not be possible, don't we? Want his weapon? Grab it! Want to grapple him? Go for it... want to have dozens of weenies surround him and bring him to his knees without suffering AOO's? Congrats Mr. BBEG... you can have a field day with this one! It just screams "broken" to me. Not quite as broken as Cure spells, but broken none the less. Next on the agenda...armor. Magical or otherwise, everyone seems to want armor. Hogwash! This is obviously and over sight by WOTC. Armor should be removed from the game as it outright causes feelings of inadequacy in those that can only afford or wear "light armor", compared to those in "heavy armor". Such feelings of inadequacy can lead to dangerous complexes where Monsters and Mazes might be played... and we all know that no matter what, none of us will ever get enough xp to really fly. So remove this brutal assault on the emotional stability of the average player! Yours truly, a concerned player.
Vaalingrade Ashland 11-09-03, 09:46 PM	Lets not forget Pretidigitation. It does more than one thing! I mean jeez! At least they had the vision to take this away from Flame arrow and freezing sphere, but there's still pretidigitation; cleaning, warming, spicing -- arrrgh! They need to make each of those functions a first level spell.
BlaineTog 11-09-03, 10:04 PM	1st level? Pht. You are OBVIUSLY a grade-A, 1st-Class MUNCHKIN(TM)*!!! Cleaning ALONE should be at LEAST 5th level. Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to get those really tough stains out of a tunic? I DIDN'T THINK SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *Please don't take any offence at this. remember: Tongue-in-cheeck!(sp?)
Heron_Marked_Blade 11-09-03, 10:07 PM	You obviously have your DM wrapped around your sharpened toothbrushes. I mean, puhleeeze!!! He gives you Daze and Prestidigitation? And armor??? Monty. All the way. Back in my day, we played real D&D. I mean real D&D. The only way you could play a cleric, sorceror, druid, or wizard was if you actually COULD cast spells. That ruled us all out...except for Billy, that is. He could cast Daze and Prestidigitation, and wiped the floor with us regularly. Talk about broken!! But when we found old toothpicks to use for weapons, that put us back on an equal footing. We stuck 'im, stuck 'im good.
BlaineTog 11-09-03, 10:12 PM	You found toothpicks?!?!?!?! ANd you think OUR DMs are Monty!!!
Heron_Marked_Blade 11-09-03, 10:19 PM	Originally posted by BlaineTog You found toothpicks?!?!?!?! ANd you think OUR DMs are Monty!!! Two....between the four of us....already used.... You're right!! I'm a munchkin!! Aauugghhh! :weep: :tantrum: :weep: :tantrum: :weep: :tantrum::b:
BlaineTog 11-09-03, 10:42 PM	Ah well. I'm one to talk. My DM allowed us to use fingernail shavings. ::beats self over head, screaming "NO!!!! BAD BLAINTOG!!! STOP THE MUNCHINIMD (unless yur actually playing "Munchkin";))!!!! AAAAAAIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!"::
Vaalingrade Ashland 11-10-03, 01:36 AM	You think that's bad, out Dm let us use our fists as natural weapons! So I had my guy gnaw off his arms -- but then I realized the teeth were powerpowered too -- and the stupid, munchy cleric -- cured me -- suddenly, my guy had those uber arrms again! I mean wish shouldn't have been able to bring arms back!
Donnavin Snowolf 11-10-03, 02:23 AM	This is ridiculous. If any of you knew anything you'd realize that toothpicks splinter, which is deblitating enough to make a person hop around on one foot. The the same effect as Otto's Irresistable Dance, an 8th level spell! 8TH LEVEL!!!, and it has a duration of however long the splinter stays in, which if he's wearing the overpowered armor then thats until he has the time to completely remove the armor, by that time you could easily kill him with some soft tissue paper. Which is what I give my players. AND when theres a fight I make them actually fight the creature. If they're in combat with a tiger, I import the gal dang tiger and let 'em go at it. None of this rolling crap, because dice can be fixed, and the law of gravity itself could ruin the balance of the game. In my games I outlaw gravity, its like a continual binding spell and favors the overpowered ability, movement. PCs always try to go somewhere. Go ahead, try and find a PC that gives up movement! Bet you can't find any, thats because anyone without movement is screwed. Uberscrewed. Are the PCs scared of a shrub? No, but they're scared of shambeling mounds, because they can move. PCs are scared cause somethings finally on 'even ground' with them. Those munchkin bastards are fine with something until you use it against them. "But non-magical cedar trees can't voluntarily fall over! Thats not fair! Wha wha wha!" A true roleplayer would play as a single leaf, not a pine needle, and none of this poison ivy crap either. A single leaf, armed with soft tissue paper.
BlaineTog 11-10-03, 02:47 AM	Let me just take a minute to say :rofl::rofl::rofl::bow: :cloud9: :angel: :cool: :ayyyy!: :mage: :heehee :D ... OH MY GOD!!! SMILEYS ARE OVERPOWERED!!! AAAHHHHHHHHHHH, AAAAEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!
perfectcrime 11-10-03, 08:34 AM	Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, keep up the good work, gentleman. Coors Light! Great post, Tehril. :smirk:
Vorpal Warhammer 11-10-03, 01:02 PM	Summon Instrument is a completely overpowered cantrip. Obviously, WotC never playtested this. Let's take a look at what this spell did in 3.0: IT DIDN'T EVEN EXIST! That's right, this spell was too good even for Epic spells in 3.0, but in 3.5 they decide to move it down to 0th level? Clearly, WotC was catering to the munchkins on this one. This spell basically makes the bard immune to disarming, since he can just summon a flute and stab people in the throat. This is clearly out of line with the power of other 0th level spells. The advantages are just too overpowering to enumerate. Anyone with half a brain must agree with me!
Tehril 11-10-03, 01:14 PM	Just a note... the leaf, when it falls, has "Feather Fall" as an innate ability. Now tell me... WHAT KIND OF FREAK, UBER POWERED, MUNCHKIN LOVING DM WOULD EVER ALLOW HIS PLAYERS TO PLAY ANYTHING WITH "FEATHER FALL" AS AN INNATE ABILITY!!!??? 'Nough said. My Next Target of Ridicule: Animate Rope!!! Ladies and gentlebugs, may I draw your attention to this nefarious spell! Seemingly innocent at first, I have discovered it has the ability to END adventuring careers...shortly after they start. It all starts with a wizard learning this simple spell... and from there on it spirals into tragedy. TRAGEDY!!! Long relegated to being an oddity (ties knots), or occasionally useful in combat (wrap up a friend)... some sick minds even put it to um... deviant use (bondage). But the WORST abuse of this spell is... The old snake charmer trick. YES. Kill a snake, skin it and put the skin over the end of the rope. Now you have an obediant "snake" that you can use to make oodles of coin with... gaining fame as the worlds best snake charmer. Eventually, the ruler of the realm will request an audience! You will be invited to entertain them with your magnificient skills. They love your performance and shower you with gifts. This in and of itself is reason enough to never adventure past getting this spell... but the worst is yet to come. While enjoying yout gifts, you enevitable fall off the paraphets of the castle and land on the pointy gates below, impaled compeltely. Boom. Your dead... I tell you, this spell has the potential to kill beyond any other spell. First it steals your soul, then your life. I think it should be removed entirely, as it obviously has ties to the occult. This has been another public service announcement brought to you by Huggies, the softer moist towlet.
UniversalSnip 11-10-03, 01:27 PM	The opposing side: You are ALL in denial. WOTC :love: is perfect and flawless in it's decisions. If you can't see how balanced everything is, you're not using the rules correctly! You should let the BBEG have every spell and every ability and the paragon template and fifteen prestige classes, because that's the way the game was meant to be played! Otherwise, you're just rule 0ing the spirit of the game into the ground! RULE 0 DOESN'T EVEN TECHNICALLY EXIST! AND I HAVE WOTC'S SUPPORT ON THIS ONE! AAAUUUUUUUURRRRRRGHHHHHHHH! *falls foaming to ground*
Lord Arkhaven 11-10-03, 01:56 PM	The pencil I use to write stuff for my character is overpowered. The pencil is balanced actually, it writes justs as good as a pen, but when teamed up with an eraser this munchkin combo destroys a pen. I can write and erase as good as new. My character is more powerful than my friend's character because he uses a pen. Whenever a note or number becomes obsolete he simply scratches it out with his pen. Now his character sheet is a bloody mess and when his character was really hurt he couldn't even find where his potions of healing were written down. The feat chain of Pencil, Erasure, Neatness & Organisation is utterly broken. All of my characters have it because it's so darn powerful. Quote: "Pencils.... so hot right now." - Mugatoo :D
BlackFiend 11-10-03, 03:00 PM	The absolutely dirtiest, lowest spell next to cure light is definitely the Grease spell. Come on! It has no basis of being in a fantasy genre. Its nothing but petroleum jelly and glycerin. Where in Hades did some wizard sit and research this spell? Why would she create a spell that is has no real use and no basis in medieval history, dark age myth, or renaissance lore. And Gygax, that low brow, humped back sunovabiotch, HE allowed it in some munchy campaign played by his 8 year old son and published it. Egads, and 8 year old probably created the spell! I've seen this spell fall many a fine villians, causing teasing, misery, and occassional slip disks. And me, being a superior DM who acts out the effects of spells with a "Whoosh" or "BAM!" or "Eechy eechy eechy" is always confounded by this spell. How do I demonstrate the spell? The end result has caused me no end to my pain. Stinking Sorceror with metamagic feats...ENLARGE GREASE, EMPOWER GREASE, EXTEND GREASE, TWIN GREASE....it has no stinking end! I SAY BAN IT, BAN IT FROM D&D NOW!
Tehril 11-10-03, 04:17 PM	UniversalSnip: I have carefully weighed your arguement and decided that you truly don't agree with me...ergo, you must be wrong and I right. Away now troll, learn thy place in the greater order of things. Logic and Reason need never impunge upon the truth of things, as we see it.
Tehril 11-10-03, 11:46 PM	Oh Shazbot...where did I misplace that scroll of Wish???
UniversalSnip 11-11-03, 01:12 AM	Which reminds me... Breath Air is so broken. The cleric, already widely acknowledged as the most munchkiny class (although everybody knows the whole class system is broken as it is), now has the ability to survive well over thirty seconds in an oxygen - nitrogen mix natural to his atmosphere?!? And for only the cost of one spell slot?!? This obviously not only wasn't playtested, but wasn't so much as briefly considered. I know this for a fact, because I'm psychic. That leads me to my next point: who the hell invented this whole "neuron" and "thinking" thing, anyway? It's like permanently manifesting hypercognition! How broken is that? Honestly, whole campaigns hinging around the concept that the PCs have IQs lower than their shoe sizes have been destroyed this way. Doesn't Wizard$ of the Coa$t care about their customers at all? Why didn't they just let me design the game? UniversalSnip: I have carefully weighed your arguement and decided that you truly don't agree with me...ergo, you must be wrong and I right. I had something both witty and logical - in that order - to say to this, but I forgot what it was while clicking on the reply button. Thus, let it merely be said that I am generically insulting your mother (whom I have never met), your father (ditto), your place of residence (which I have never even vaguely heard of), and your quality of character as a whole (which is obviously poor from your overtly munchkinistic posts). Why won't you simply admit that everything you have ever thought is slightly or significantly less true than anything I have ever thought? Or might think? Or could think if I was capable of thinking of it?
PEBKAC 11-11-03, 02:56 PM	Originally posted by Heron_Marked_Blade Broken? You haven't seen broken yet until you see the effect of the class system in D&D. I mean honestly, how reasonable is it to expect that some people get better than others at melee combat, while others focus on ranged combat, and others try to master this intangible magical force, and yet others channel energy from incredibly overpowered beings, and everything remain balanced??? After much thought, I figured out the solution: Limit D&D characters to one class (the COMMONER); remove MAGIC from the game; get rid of all pointy or edged or blunt objects (WEAPONS); and limit everyone to a maximum of 500gp-worth of personal items ever (TREASURE --> greed is the root of all evil). If you get rid of classes, then everything else will fall into place. Yeah and you can call it four guys beating each other with sticks in the backyard.
Heron_Marked_Blade 11-11-03, 03:00 PM	Originally posted by PEBKAC Yeah and you can call it four guys beating each other with sticks in the backyard. sticks = blunt objects = weapons = Monty Haul. :nonono:
Vorpal Warhammer 11-11-03, 03:54 PM	Originally posted by Heron_Marked_Blade sticks = blunt objects = weapons = Monty Haul. :nonono: Sure, if your DM just hands out sticks like candy. We play in a very low-lumber world, where the only wooden items are those created by the characters after taking the Craft Wooden Item feat (prereq 13 ranks in 3 different Craft skills). This assumes, of course, that the player has plenty of ranks in Profession: Shrubber to cultivate his materials...
Tehril 11-11-03, 11:22 PM	Universal Snip Why won't you simply admit that everything you have ever thought is slightly or significantly less true than anything I have ever thought? Or might think? Or could think if I was capable of thinking of it? In that case, I think you are an intelligent, locial, fair minded all around good samaritan. Or a martian. Prefessions and skills? I'm sorry...if my players want their characters to have professions and skills, the Players themselves must demonstrate to me that THEY have the aforsaid skills and professesion. After all, this is where reality meets fantasy.
BlaineTog 11-12-03, 12:18 AM	You DM lets you use pencils? Pht. MY DM doesn't even let us use Paper. Think about it: You can write on it, burn it, or (and here's the REALLY broken part, as if those other things wern't enough) SHARPEN it to give anyone a really, really nasty papercut. Combine that with some lemon, and you've got one nasty wound.
UniversalSnip 11-12-03, 12:33 PM	In that case, I think you are an intelligent, locial, fair minded all around good samaritan. Or a martian.[quote] You've obviously totally misinterperted my argument. I won't specify how, or even what my argument really is, but trust me, you've got it all wrong! Clearly your reading comprehension is very poor. [quote]Think about it: You can write on it, burn it, or (and here's the REALLY broken part, as if those other things wern't enough) SHARPEN it to give anyone a really, really nasty papercut. Wow? Sharpen it? That implies you have enough physical existence to affect the paper. Very muchkiny. IMC, we all die of miscarriages before it starts.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 11-12-03, 02:26 PM	Originally posted by Vorpal Warhammer Sure, if your DM just hands out sticks like candy. We play in a very low-lumber world, where the only wooden items are those created by the characters after taking the Craft Wooden Item feat (prereq 13 ranks in 3 different Craft skills). This assumes, of course, that the player has plenty of ranks in Profession: Shrubber to cultivate his materials... Your DM allows skills and feats?! He's insane!
Wizard 11-12-03, 02:27 PM	Originally posted by BlaineTog You DM lets you use pencils? Pht. MY DM doesn't even let us use Paper. Think about it: You can write on it, burn it, or (and here's the REALLY broken part, as if those other things wern't enough) SHARPEN it to give anyone a really, really nasty papercut. Combine that with some lemon, and you've got one nasty wound. Well, yeah. Of course it'll hurt if you just pour ACID on them. I bet your DM allows cabbages in your world too. Don't even get me STARTED on coconuts. What, now ammunition grows on trees? AND it's a food source? AND it's available in secluded places likely to be filled with monsters? Players should have to beat monsters to death with their hair to actually DESERVE that treasure.
Tehril 11-12-03, 04:11 PM	You've obviously totally misinterperted my argument. I won't specify how, or even what my argument really is, but trust me, you've got it all wrong! Clearly your reading comprehension is very poor. You're assuming I require reading comprehension to void your arguement. This is where you are incorrect. I don't even need to list evidence or details to prove you wrong, simply because I am right. Simple as that. More broken spells to come shortly (Remember folks, this IS the Spells etc forum... so try to tailor SOME part of your responses in being about spells, items, magical abilites etc...)
Solidcobra 11-12-03, 05:12 PM	...... i'm almost amused....
IceFractal 11-12-03, 06:54 PM	The Useless Level Handbook, by Nonexistant Gaming Co. comes closer to a balanced D&D with this starting (and finishing, since "leveling" was obviously far too broken) character: Race - Uselessbeing Class - Uselessness Master Level: -1 Speed: 1' Stats: Str 1, Dex 1, Con 1, Int 1, Wis 1, Cha 1 Feats: None Skills: 1 point, but not in any skill that could be useful in any way. HP: 1 Equipment: No starting gold, and they can't ever have any equipment worth more than 1 cp. BAB: -20 Saves: All -10 Of course this is still very overpowered, but with enough balancing it could come close to working.
IceFractal 11-12-03, 06:54 PM	The Useless Level Handbook, by Nonexistant Gaming Co. comes closer to a balanced D&D with this starting (and finishing, since "leveling" was obviously far too broken) character: Race - Uselessbeing Class - Uselessness Master Level: -1 Speed: 1' Stats: Str 1, Dex 1, Con 1, Int 1, Wis 1, Cha 1 Feats: None Skills: 1 point, but not in any skill that could be useful in any way. HP: 1 Equipment: No starting gold, and they can't ever have any equipment worth more than 1 cp. BAB: -20 Saves: All -10 Of course this is still very overpowered, but with enough balancing it could come close to working.
BlaineTog 11-12-03, 07:13 PM	Your DM lets you get as far as "ALMOST" amused?!?!?!?! MONTY HAUL!!!
BlaineTog 11-12-03, 07:14 PM	It starts at level 1?!?!?! Do I even have to SAY it anymore?
beaver1024 11-12-03, 07:17 PM	<Quote from the topic starter used completely out of context> You guys are so silly. Cure spells are not overpowered because the DM can rule that the Gods can be flightly and randomly deny the cleric the power to heal with out any good reason whatsoever. Your DM must sure be lazy to allow you to abuse cure spells. Anything the player can do the NPCs can do also. If you use cure spells to heal HPs so can the monsters. I mean cure spells are so universal that most enemies will have 1000000000 cure spells/potions and items handy anyway. Most of all, you lazy uncreative DMs don't know how to use my campaign specific spell "Uber cure spell suppressor" which I will assume is part of the core rules and that everybody is using. I am going to flame you to a crips for not having the common sense to use my obscure specificto my campaign only rules/spells that counteract cure spells in various nonsensical ways. I mean you need to have EVERY npc regardless of whether they can actually cast spells or not to cast "uber cure spell suppressor". THAT is y cure spells are balanced.
ikkonoishi 11-12-03, 07:35 PM	Originally posted by BlaineTog Your DM lets you get as far as "ALMOST" amused?!?!?!?! MONTY HAUL!!! Your DM lets you PLAY!!! In my campain we get to name the characters and after that all we can do is touch the character sheets while the DM rolls the dice and does all the voices. And none of that full hand touching no siree we can keep one finger on the bottom right corner of the sheet which is specially waxed for that purpose.
BlaineTog 11-12-03, 08:11 PM	WAX?!?!?! I have one thing to say to that: :OMG!
ikkonoishi 11-12-03, 08:16 PM	Originally posted by BlaineTog WAX?!?!?! I have one thing to say to that: :OMG! Yeah we snuck the wax past him! :king:
UniversalSnip 11-12-03, 08:37 PM	Originally posted by Tehril You're assuming I require reading comprehension to void your arguement. This is where you are incorrect. I don't even need to list evidence or details to prove you wrong, simply because I am right. Simple as that. More broken spells to come shortly (Remember folks, this IS the Spells etc forum... so try to tailor SOME part of your responses in being about spells, items, magical abilites etc...) I refute it thus: :nonono: :nonono: :nonono: :nonono: :nonono: :nonono: :nonono: :nonono: It's physically impossible to deny the truth of a statement like that. It's so purely logical it actually cuts your eyeballs open when you read it. And if you disagree, you don't exist, you childish poo poo head. Originally posted by BlaineTog WAX?!?!?! It's not the wax that's the problem, it's the sheets. Character sheets aren't core. Yet another sad case of a DM using the Write and Roll (splatbook focusing on the players) to justify a monty haul game. It saddens my heart to see all these DMs spoiling their players by giving them free wooden pencils, [insert flame]. Players should have to pick the dirt out from under their toe-nails and write "spellcraft" on the wall if they want to give their fighter any skills. That shows they have the capabilities I demand in a player.
Heron_Marked_Blade 11-13-03, 01:39 AM	Originally posted by BlaineTog It starts at level 1?!?!?! Do I even have to SAY it anymore? "1" is the ultimate end result of progression. As a number, it stands alone in a way no other number can do. As such, it is BROKEN. Which leads me to my next point: fractions. Not only is D&D broken by these insanely unbalanced things (I won't waste my time specifying which things, since they're so obviously unbalanced that you all understand what I'm referring to, and if you don't then you don't deserve to), but it's a game totally slanted toward number crunching. Number crunching = fragmentation of "1" [the perfect number] = INCREDIBLE BROKEN-NESS (literally)!!! *sigh* When will WoTC realize that they're just a bunch of [*elevator music*] who obviously didn't playtest a single thing. Based on that fact, it's evident that the "playtesters" sat around and played Grand Theft Auto III: Vice City (talk about more things getting broken beyond repair), which is ample proof that reality is simply a reflection of the shattered-beyond-all-repair realm of D&D! I rest my case, secure in the knowledge that everyone agrees with me. And that those who don't are obviously unenlightened and don't know what they're talking about....which means I can just ignore their responses.
Tehril 11-14-03, 07:55 PM	GTA? I dunno about that, some of these spells make me think they were training to become Jedi Knights when they let them slip... like Wish. I mean common.... this is a supreme Jedi Mind trick. No spell shoul dbe able to transport you 1000 years into the future!!! (also known as the "I wish the Great Red Dragon was dead" spell).
Tehril 01-31-04, 02:56 PM	*bump* This needs revification... I'm seeing some suspicious complaint posts again :D
Tsuul 01-31-04, 09:04 PM	Sorry, but a tongue can't be in the same space as a cheek. It must end its movement back 5'. Separating itself from its body and becoming unusable for any kind of debate. <begins separating>
Tehril 02-01-04, 12:18 PM	I've been noticing how very broken Daze is. Not only can you use it in combat (gasp!) to stun a foe, but your party bard cna use it to "stunning" effectiveness in role playing (this is a strict breakage of the ruleselage of spellselage!) Bard... walks by lovely lady, grins "Hello my lady", casts stilled/silenced Daze... "Do you believe in love at first sight, or do I have to past you again?" Of course, the only only thing the dazed young lass knows is that this charming young man walked by her, grinned, said hello and BOOM! She's got some crazy feeling in her... a dazed, swept off her feet feeling no less... THIS IS SO BROKEN!!! Just imagine all of the terrible uses this could be put to!!!
Servant 02-01-04, 01:58 PM	Originally posted by Tehril I've been noticing how very broken Daze is. Bard... walks by lovely lady, grins "Hello my lady", casts stilled/silenced Daze... Bah! That's only broken if you're playing it wrong. IMC the lady would be a paragon half-golem succubus because the player was doing something CLEARLY outside the intention of the rules. It's MUNCHKIN METAGAMING, because how would the CHARACTER know anything about ladies?
Finwe 02-04-04, 08:05 PM	Did you notiice how totaly underpowered The unerrataed shapechange was? I mean COME ON! seriously, who's going to want to turn into a 50hd creature with just its supernatureal and extraordinary abilities? You can't even MATCH a level -100 cleric with that! a CLERIC! The most underpowered class! However, I am apalled at all of your obvious munchkin metagaming. How could you possibly allow our players to exist? Existance is the MOST OVERPOWERED PEICE OF ()^(*&^ GRR(*^!! AGG!!!! "hoppingmad::headexplode::hoppingmad: Now, seriously. Everyone wants to exist. Why? because it is broken. I mean, with existance, YOU CAN DO THINGS! Besides, without existance, you can eliminate all those nusances like playing, breathing, living and many other things! Now THAT'S a good deal.
adiaven 02-12-04, 04:28 PM	your DM lets you use character sheets? We have to commit our entire character sheets to memory, and if we werent able to instantly recall any stat (including our total load) we were docked 1000 XP. you guys get it too easy, just learning skills by putting ranks into them. If we wanted to learn a new language, we to demostrate to the DM we were fluent in it first. After a year into the campaign, I was finally able to master elvish. Unfortunately the guy who tried to learn dragonic went insane.
Sproik 02-12-04, 06:58 PM	You had it easy. If our characters got wounded in battle, our DM would deliver electric shocks to us to simulate pain. And if anyone died... well, let's just say there are plenty of former players under his patio.
Tehril 02-13-04, 02:05 PM	^ LUXURY!!! You had padding for when you hit the ground!! But again, this is a tongue and cheek rant directed at spells... Such as the incredibly broken KNOW DIRECTION!!! Holler at that, bro. Check out that action, mate. There is NO WAY to get lost now! NONE! Good luck! Soooooo broken. But let's face it, Cure spells are the most broken spells around, hands down. I'm afraid nothing else...swords and armor aside... comes anywhere close to being as broken. I mean look at my arguement...check it out...who ever refuses such things? No one. Side not... Weapons and armor are broken as well. Everyone wants some sort of protection and a trusty weapon... this is an obvious sign that this concept is broken. (well, maybe not monks... but we don't talk about THEM)
Heron_Marked_Blade 02-13-04, 03:15 PM	Originally posted by Tehril (well, maybe not monks... but we don't talk about THEM) And why don't we talk about monks? If I have to tell you, you obviously haven't been paying attention...which is BROKEN!! Not paying attention??! Nothing more broken than that. I remember the days when DMs could chain players to their chairs and lash their heads in place so they couldn't do anything BUT pay attention. THAT was true DMing. DMs were ALLOWED to do some breaking back then, let me tell you. "The game is for the players" my foot. !! BROKEN !!!
Tehril 02-13-04, 08:43 PM	^ You obviously don't play enough Paranoia. GM's are encouraged to restrain and otherwise inflict bodily harm on problematic players (note...problematic players are ones who have good ideas or dice that roll high enough to actually hit enemies) Don't believe me!? It's right in the manual... under the GM section. I believe you need a red key card clearence or some such... so you'd better not try it unless you have the appropriate clearance...
channel_dunlap 02-13-04, 11:06 PM	It all comes back to what I've been saying for years: PLAYERS ARE OVERPOWERED! The only way to have a completely balanced game is to have ALL NPCs!
Tehril 02-14-04, 04:57 AM	^ sooooo... you are effectively suggesting that the only one that has any right to be present at the table, for the sake of unbrokeness...is the DM? Seems pretty broken to me.
channel_dunlap 02-14-04, 06:36 AM	No, the rest of them can be there, for the purose of listening to the DM describe what is happening.
Kyuketsukiouji 02-14-04, 07:59 AM	I finally managed to remove all munchking and monty elements from something I was originally going to call D&D 4.0. But it was pointed out to me that WotC would loose all of it's customers if I did that, so I decided to rename it in a more discreet manner. It's now called "Four Guys Beating each other up in the Backyard While I Watch". (I'm the DM)
bjorntfh 02-18-04, 05:43 PM	Citizen Teh-RIL. That section of the book is Ultraviolet Clearance. Ordering another citizens to commit treason is treason. Treason is punishable by death. Please report to the nearest termination booth. Failure to report for summary execution is grounds for summary execution. Thank you citizens, please continue your loyal praise of Friend Computer. Everyone say it now. All Hail Friend Computer. Now.
Tehril 02-18-04, 07:55 PM	Friend Computer, suggesting that a citizen with proper clearence enter a section that he has aforsaid clearence for is not treason. It may be that the aforsaid citizen has suffered amnesia and requires a reminder of where to locate proper duties for the aforsaid Ultraviloet Clearance sector. After all, it IS possible that aforsaid citizen was under special orders from the Friend Computer to be in that section... and not aiding aforsaid citizen in that case would be treason punishable by death. As we all know, it is every citizens imperative to aid others on the behest of the friend computer. Now isn't it? Wait! Look out!!!... Its a muntant, commie squirrel!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!! EDIT: Back on track... My next spell target is the incredibley overpower Prestidigitation!!! Ooooh...look... a low level WISH spell. This spell really should bea round 6th level for what it does. Not only does it provide you with powerful illusions (NO SAVE... Blackguards armor is now PINK with PURPLE flowers!) but it can be in the most dangerous ways possible... in non combat situations. I mean come on! Can you even imagine how much cash an unscroupulous character could rake in by taking a few ranks in Profession (Cook) and using this spell!??? Heat the food, chill the beer... CHANGE THE FLAVOUR OF THE FOOD!!! Ya... cheap products, high prices...I tell you, THAT WOULD NEVER FLY IN THE REAL WORLD!!! Or how about would be assassins? No longer do you have to look for a tasteless, ordourless, colourless poison (Ionocain...)... now you can grab the foulest tasting crud, dump it on the food and *POOF!*... a little presty later the food tastes normal. This is a BLATANT breaking of the rules. Have you EVER met an illusionist or gnome that didn't have or want prestidigitaion? Proof right there folks! If people want to use it and it has a purpose OUTSIDE of combat, it really needs to be fixed. What about that Flame Finger? A free action to light a torch? Back in my day it was a standard action, boy! These young folk are just getting spoiled. Now think of this... a pool of oil, a mage with an itchy trigger finger...and a dozen orcs charging him. All the mage has to do is wait for the orcs to jump into the pool and he whips out his flaming finger and zzaaaaaaaappppppp!!!! The orcs are caught in a conflagaration of epic proportions. So much for it being able to affect combat or cause damage. Obviously overpowered. But that's not the worst transgression!!! WIth one casting of this spell the caster can fill and area with the smell of freshly baked goods. Now, let me tell you... if you pull this stunt in a poor village with starving peasants... YOU ARE EVIL!!! Very bad!!! Very, very, very, very BAD!!! Naughty!!! Yes... and therein lies my point... Prestidigitation should have the [EVIL] descriptor beside it.
The Master Weaver Is Warped 05-16-04, 11:23 AM	Originally posted by Tehril My next spell target is the incredibley overpower Prestidigitation!!! Ooooh...look... a low level WISH spell. This spell really should bea round 6th level for what it does. Not only does it provide you with powerful illusions (NO SAVE... Blackguards armor is now PINK with PURPLE flowers!) but it can be in the most dangerous ways possible... in non combat situations. Like Oliver asking for more, player meekly risking life and limb here. Please, DM is fashion challanged, and the chain mail bikini he requires I wear to sessions is a bit chilly, can I please have a 0 level spell that allows me to turn up the thermostat to something above 58F?
Tehril 05-16-04, 11:47 AM	Absolutely NOT! The power to make yourself comfy belongs to 1st level spells and above! Warming things up so you don't catch cold...indeed! Fortitude checks all around! It's flu season!!!
Tehril 06-10-04, 08:32 PM	I think this could do with a little *bump*
Sancus 06-10-04, 08:49 PM	http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9341/threadnecro.jpg
smrtgmp 06-11-04, 03:13 AM	funny s***