Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rogue_lettuce 08-20-04, 11:30 AM	OK, flame shield up.... I know that you can't get a true strike item for 2000gp or whatever those dumb recent threads have said... However, how would you price an item of continuous true strike that also gives the wearer the feats Power Attack and Greater (Improved? whatever, the one that lets you PA up to your full BAB) Power Attack? OK, according to some recent calculations I read, it's something like 4,00,000 for the ring/cloak/bracers/whatever?:confused: How much for the feats, in your opinions?:confused: The tactic is this - put it on a ring or something, give to a level 20 fighter, and PA for +20 points of damage per attack. You don't need the feats, you get to full attack, and if you really need to hit something bad then you can decrease the amount you PA for....:angel: So how much would this cost? (Again, yes I'm aware it would be a lot, but like +160 points of damage a round in an early epic game ain't bad.) *Keeps flame shield up*:D
Kiirnodel 08-20-04, 11:39 AM	Whenever I get a "Hey, Can I get an item of true strike?" I say "Gloves of true striking are 12,000,000!" According to epic level rules you multiply item costs by ten and it is an insight bonus to attack rolls. (I guesstimated at 3000). Right, I have the Guantlets of Reckless Power in my game that grants the Power Attack feat (But you must meet prerequisites for it (Str 13) and you can't take other feats in the chain without first taking power atack) CL 5th, Prerequsites: Craft Wondrous Item, Bull's Strength. Market Price: 5,000 Pretty Cheap. I think PA lets you power up to full BAB anyway. So....an item that granted both would cost: 18,010,000 Gold pieces. Hope I helped! :D
rogue_lettuce 08-20-04, 11:43 AM	OK, that was a lot more than I thought....:eek: Surely the item itself isn't epic though?:confused: I was just saying it would be too expensive for a normal game, that's all, but it could be made pre-epic, right?:behold:
The_Bishop 08-20-04, 12:04 PM	Just do what I do - have an Incantatrix with Metamagic Spell Trigger quicken from a wand of True Strike. Five charges are well worth it. -The_Bishop
BW0222 08-20-04, 12:22 PM	You're kidding? Right? Well, the DMG says a weapon bonus (enhancement) is bonus ^2 * 2000gp. Well, you don't get the damage part (and it doesn't make the weapon magical), but items with an insight bonus are extremely rare, you are duplicating a spell effect without a standard action to cast it, and you get to avoid concealment, so this is many times more powerful. It also exceeds the general +5 limit of any bonus on most items in the DMG, so I'm going at least bonus ^2 * 2500gp (likely more, but hey) So that is 20x20 x2500gp = 1,000,000gp I'm sure you could give it the uncustomary space limitation modifier -- a ring adding bonuses to attack (normally expected in a weapon), so add x1.5. 1,00,000gp x 1.5 = 1,500,000gp Next you wish to give the item multiple abilities -- two feats in this case. About the only thing close I find to this is the ring of evasion (which grants a class like ability for 25,000gp) and slyvan scimitar (which grants a virtual cleave feat with limitations for about the same). Great cleave is obviously better than cleave, so I'll guess: 25,000gp (power attack) + 25,000gp (greater cleave) and giving each the unusual slot modifier (both are combat feats not in a weapon) say 75,000gp. 1,575,000 gp. Finally, you have one item with multiple different abilities which the DMG says is x2 in price. 1,575,000gp x 2 = 3,150,000gp And this would most likely have to be a ring. So, say... 3,150,000gp; CL 17; forge ring, craft weapons and armor, true strike, creator must have power attack and cleave. Construction cost 1,575,000gp, 126,000xp, and 1575 days (4 years, 4 months). So all you have to do is find a 17-level wizard with true strike, power attack and cleave (not likely), who is willing to spend over four years of his life (assuming he wasn't interupted or his castle invaded), and oh yes, agrees to end up becoming a 5th-level wizard. Artifacts don't gain these sorts of values, so short of a major god coming in to help out, I can't see anyone who would be willing to craft such an item. Thanks, Brett
Seeker95 08-20-04, 12:35 PM	Artifact. No price necessary. Check the sig. Call it equivalent.
Drachasor 08-20-04, 12:43 PM	"2 If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half." That's from the DMG on continuous use/use activated items (a footnote). Seems to me there is no provision for True Strike, which is essentially a instantaneous spell. If you are going to argue it isn't, then you could say you can make it a continuous duration item....but it would only work for one attack. As such the multiplier is somewhere between 4 and infinity, as determined by the DM. In other words, Seeker is right, though potentially a high level Epic Item could give a +20 Insight Bonus to attack. -Drachasor
Someone 08-20-04, 02:08 PM	Originally posted by Drachasor ...Seems to me there is no provision for True Strike, which is essentially a instantaneous spell. If you are going to argue it isn't, then you could say you can make it a continuous duration item....but it would only work for one attack. As such the multiplier is somewhere between 4 and infinity, as determined by the DM.I'd rule that the "attack must be made within 1 round" is a "duration" of 1 round with the clause "or until discharged". Yes you could use true strike as the prereq to make an item that grants an insight bonus. But, as mentioned, it would follow the normal item rules: bonus^2 x utility multiplier. The utility multiplier for insight is probably double that of a normal (enhancement) bonus. As for an item that would allow you to benefit from the spell, it would be a standard action to activate (unless you made a quickened version), you could only activate it once a round, and it would only affect 1 attack. But it would be nasty in the hands of a frenzied berzerk with spring attack...
Kiirnodel 08-20-04, 07:02 PM	Notice the Bracers of Archery add +1 to hit ONLY with bows and are on an item that fits its purpose. It is 2.5k. So I think a +1 ALL should be at least 3k.
Heron_Marked_Blade 08-20-04, 10:07 PM	Originally posted by Kiirnodel Notice the Bracers of Archery add +1 to hit ONLY with bows and are on an item that fits its purpose. It is 2.5k. So I think a +1 ALL should be at least 3k. The Lesser Bracers of Archery in my 3.5 DMG cost 5,000gp. They add +1 to attack, no bonus to damage. The Greater Bracers of Archery cost 25,000gp and add: proficiency with bows, +2 to attack, +1 to damage.
Kiirnodel 08-20-04, 10:09 PM	Damn you! I hate people who correct me! Thank you for pointing that out in which case the true striking amulet is over 30 million. (BTW, I was joking about the hating you)
Heron_Marked_Blade 08-20-04, 10:32 PM	Originally posted by Kiirnodel (BTW, I was joking about the hating you) Hehe, I figured. ;)
rogue_lettuce 08-21-04, 07:22 AM	Originally posted by BW0222 You're kidding? Right? Or that's what you think...:smirk: Don't tell me you can resist an average of roughly +160 points of damage per round? Even though it would be as bit steep at 3 million or whatever it was guesstimated at...:angel:
Sacrusha 08-21-04, 08:00 AM	Bonus of more than +5 to attack easily triggers epic multiplier, if someone disagrees, lets say higher than +10. Insight, ie "stacks with everything else" bonus is worth anything between bonus squared times 1,000gp and bonus squared times 10,000gp. Power attack has two advantages, one is the feat itself, the other is that it is a prerequisite for some cool feats and PrCs, you do not get the second one, so it should cost between 5,000gp and 25,000gp. Negating concealment is quite a benefit, something that could be priced anywhere between 20,000gp and 100,000gp, depending on how often concealment comes into play. So the lowest price is: (20^2*1,000gp+5,000gp+20,000gp)*10= 4,250,000gp And the highest price is: (20^2*10,000gp+25,000gp+100,000gp)*10= 41,250,000gp And to craft the expensive variant you'd need to spend how many xp again? Certainly a major artifact. And you can't say 40million are not sufficient to hire enough thieves and adventurers to get several artifacts (once you know their locations).
Aricandor 08-21-04, 02:26 PM	Originally posted by Seeker95 Artifact. No price necessary. Check the sig. Call it equivalent. Read his sig carefully, for it is wise and correctly worded. This is something you shouldn't allow pre-godhood if you're a sane DM. If I were PRICE it though it'd probably be (for a weapon) +20 enhancement*1,5=1,2 mil To create: 600,000gp + 24,000 xp, plus a casting of wish (adding another 5000xp to the price) and true strike And add to that that you have to be CL 60 to create (3*20) this ain't nothing you use at (as I said) pre-godhood. Oh. And you'd have to have something in the lines of Craft Major Artifact. Which you can't. Making this item unavailable. Conclusion: Item cut from game 10 times over.
rogue_lettuce 08-22-04, 08:44 AM	Originally posted by Aricandor Read his sig carefully, for it is wise and correctly worded. This is something you shouldn't allow pre-godhood if you're a sane DM. If I were PRICE it though it'd probably be (for a weapon) A) Who said I was sane? B) As I've pointed out several times, I am talknig about high level play, very possibly lvl 40-60.:)
Someone 08-22-04, 02:00 PM	Okay, this should be split into two parts: First, there is the use the true strike spell as a basis for enchanting an item that grants insight bonus to whatever. That's fine, but I'd rather it be a spell that grants a scaling insight bonus (divine favor?). Just follow the bonus ^2 x multiplier. In this case, insight would be x4,000 (I think) to boost attacks, x2,500 to boost AC, and x2,000 to boost saves. And limit it in the same way as enhancement: you have to be triple the bonus in spellcaster level. Second, is the "casts the true strike spell again and again" item. Regardless to where you store it (weapon, ring, etc.), its going to be a command word or a use-activated item. It can't be continuous, because the spell discharges- you don't use up a bull's strength spell on a single Str related action. As a CW, it would cost 1 x 1 x 1,800 = 1,800, and takes a standard (and noisy) action to activate. As a U-A, it would cost 1 x 1 x 2,000 x 4 = 8,000, and would still be a standard (but silent) action to activate. As a quick'd U-A, it would cost 5 x 9 x 2000 x 4 = 360,000, and would be a free action to activate. But with any of these, you could only activate it once a round, and it would only affect your next attack (provided it was made within the 1 round duration).
DM Zoc 08-22-04, 03:51 PM	Has anyone even considered what a ring of perpetual true strike would do? True strike operates by giving you a short glimpse into what will happen in the near future. Granted, it's a short enough glimpse that it won't distract you from other goings on in the world, but if you turn in onto perpetual then suddenly you're only perceiving the future. Have you ever tried to react to something happening a few seconds after you've already seen it happen? I would allow a ring of perpetual true strike in any campaign I run, for 2000 GP or whatever. It gives -20 to hit, a penalty of 6 to Reflex saves, and permanently negates your Dex bonus to AC. They're easy to find in any well-stocked market-place, because so many mages thought they would be a good idea.