Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kram_Rignes 03-28-06, 12:50 PM	can anyone help me out in constructing a good "sentence" to wish for immortality, i mean, the sentence must be perfect enough to work without "side effects" = like i'll be in state of temporal stasis. this immortality thing is not meant to become invincible but to gain eternal youth.. ^_^
KublaiKhan 03-28-06, 12:58 PM	Do you have a nice DM, or a not-so-nice one? If you're gaining the wish from an Efreeti, or your DM is aligned anything but NG, you're screwed. Wish can emulate spells without side effects...I think the best thing you can hope for is to be the subject of a Temporal Stasis spell.
PlasmaBunny 03-28-06, 01:11 PM	Well, you could wish that you never grow any older and can live indefinitly (barring death due to violent death), without being frozen in time, or turned to stone, or transmuted into any other inanimate object, or any animated object or having your race changed, or turned to an undead creature, or turned into a deathless, or killed outright, or being moved into the astral plane or some other plane that stops aging. And should you die due to violent death, you will continue to possess the ability to live indefinitly without aging upon being raised from death.
Vestigial_Thumb 03-28-06, 01:13 PM	Here's one: "With no change to my body, mind, or soul, grant me eternal life and youth."
PlasmaBunny 03-28-06, 01:14 PM	Here's one: "With no change to my body, mind, or soul, grant me eternal life and youth." Problem with that one, is that you may end up an infant forever.
Valoy_Muniz 03-28-06, 01:22 PM	Here's one: "With no change to my body, mind, or soul, grant me eternal life and youth." Ok you have it you have it by reliving the same sec for the rest of eternitly. Or Ok you had it but the demon of chose just stole it from you. Or Ok you have it but now the God of XXX want to kill you since you stole it from them. Or Encase you in a ambor that will preserver you they way you are forever Or Tell you it is not possible to make a change to you with out being alowed to make a change to you.
KublaiKhan 03-28-06, 01:26 PM	Your best bet is to ask for *information* on how to become forever 20 years old or whatnot. It'll work a lot better that way.
Kram_Rignes 03-28-06, 01:26 PM	@KublaiKhan he is a fair DM ^_^ he allowed me to wish for immortality once i have the spell wish but he said that i must construct a sentence that will satisfy him to grant me that kind of immortality without "side effects"
malignor 03-28-06, 01:27 PM	"I wish to never suffer the ill effects (as determined by my own current perspective) of aging, while retaining all other normal bodily, mental and spiritual functions such as free will, mobility, conciousness, memories, skills, abilities and so forth" That's my stab at it. Probably get the monk ability of timeless body. Why not just wish for the lich template?
tarkin 03-28-06, 01:55 PM	Immortality is not all it's cracked up to be. Violent death still takes you down. As this game is nothing if not violent, it is not game-breaking, and can be granted. Eternality is the real goal, being immune to death at all. That said, if a player wished to be immortal, and they did it WELL, I would change their type to something that does not age. Construct, Undead, elemental, or outsider. This would be equivelent to being reincarnated. They would lose certain racial abiliteis and gain others. I would arrange it so their net ECL does not change. This might involve permanent level loss. But immortality is a strong wish, and even a succesfull one should be expected to have significant costs. My advice to you is to pick which type you want to end up as, and discuss it with your DM.
malignor 03-28-06, 02:06 PM	If it were RL, I'd just want the celestial template. Then I'd be extra sexy. Plus I get benefits - 60' darkvision - acid resistance (never experience tooth decay, ulcers, or acid burns from household cleaners) - cold resistance (wear summer clothes all year round, save on hot water bills and energy - though I do have my lady to consider so I still have to heat the apartment) - electricity resistance (not very often you get zapped so I don't know what big advantage this has) - damage reduction (well, not sure if I'm over 4 HD but if I were, this would be very sweet; falls, scrapes, bumps, accidents... far less a problem) - smite evil (any badguy gives me or mine a hard time, they get a helluva punch - just hope I don't kill em)
Taluron 03-28-06, 02:16 PM	Wish to have your race changed to Elan from the XPH/SRD. They're naturally immortal.
KublaiKhan 03-28-06, 02:27 PM	Well, just be aware: the second you make that wish, you're going to have an Inevitable on your tail. They don't like that sorta thing.
Azri 03-28-06, 03:00 PM	That said, if a player wished to be immortal, and they did it WELL, I would change their type to something that does not age. I'd just let the character stop aging, so I wouldn't have to mess with level adjustments and whatnot. Since most campaigns do not last more than a few years of campaign time, being immortal in D&D has as much game effect as having red hair.
Doopliss 03-28-06, 03:07 PM	That's my stab at it. Probably get the monk ability of timeless body.Timeless body still lets you die of old age. I consider that an 'ill effect of aging'. ;) Why not just wish for the lich template?Aside from Liches being undead and evil, (Alot of downsides come with those two) it has +4 LA. ;)
Seeker95 03-28-06, 03:27 PM	Want to wish for immortality in my campaign, and you'll learn that many have tried through the ages and failed. If you still try to wish for immortality, you will become encased in amber after finding a ring of sustenance on your finger and a necklace of adaptation around your neck. Want to be immortal? Research lichdom.
VrecknidjX 03-28-06, 04:35 PM	Have the character research the deities that would be predisposed to grant the character immortality and then offer to one of those deities the wish item in exchange for that deity's blessing and granting of immortality. Dave
Valoy_Muniz 03-28-06, 04:42 PM	Aside from Liches being undead and evil, (Alot of downsides come with those two) it has +4 LA. ;) At lest in Forgoten realms if not other worlds Liches do not have to be evil.
Seeker95 03-28-06, 04:46 PM	At lest in Forgoten realms Liches do not have to be evil.Neither do Drow, vampires, or anything else that requires a moral backbone to enforce. :P
Archtyrant Terevoth 03-28-06, 04:53 PM	"With no change to my body, mind, or soul, grant me eternal life and youth." That'd pretty much put you in temporal stasis. Ensuring that your body, mind or soul would never change in fact.
KublaiKhan 03-28-06, 05:18 PM	Actually, sneakily enough, you could grant 'em the wish.... But they would never again earn xp.
True Cavalier 03-28-06, 05:28 PM	Three wishes Wish for Lichdom. (you can do it without a wish, too) Wish for your phylactery to be indestructible, now and always, and in the centuries to come. Wish for permanent good looks - no bones falling off, for example. (you can do that without wish, too) You live forever, and not even a violent death can take you down... Wishing for your phylactery to be invulnerable is something that your DM can simply deny, of course, but it's hard to trick you out off. Of course someone could still kill you, steal it, and stash it in a permanent antimagic field. But doesn't everyone know of ways to hide it where no one will find it? Endless conversations about it on these forums.
IMarvinTPA 03-28-06, 05:29 PM	"I wish time would have no futher affect upon the wrinkles, lines, hair color, and other such effects of natural aging upon my body." You might just get a cap of disguise as the result of the wish. IMarv
aelryinth 03-28-06, 05:39 PM	Note on language: Immortality means Beyond Death...something that is the province of the Gods. You literally Cannot Die. You are in essence wishing for Divine status...not gonna happen. WIshing for a vastly increased lifespan or Eternal Youth is entirely different. The first is probably within the province of the spell, up to, say, the lifespan of an Elf or something. Eternal Youth would probably require Epic Magic. In other words, if another 9th level spell couldn't approximately do it, a Wish probably can't. As for the Elan scenario, that's good...except Elans lose all memories of their previous lives and start over at level 1. It probably takes Wish level magic to make an Elan. ==================== If you are just being greedy, I would invoke the Brian Clause, and you would be Screwed. ==Aelryinth
malignor 03-28-06, 05:43 PM	Find some Efreet Pay a dozen Efreet very well to provide a document containing the ideal description of immortality. If they do a good job you will reward even more them after the wish is granted to your satisfaction. Modify document such that the description is of yourself Make wish: "I wish that this [hold up document] were fact instead of fiction" I wonder, can you wish for divine rank 1?
FallenArchon 03-28-06, 06:03 PM	Well there are amulets of eternal youth in some forgotten realms novels. Then there is the infamous Fistandantilus spell from dragon lance which lets you steal the body of other humanoid beings. It would probably be easier to wish for the amulet or a way to learn the spell. Of course if your DM is feeling mean spirited then there is always he/she can always find a loop to wreak havoc with even the best constructed wish.
Seldriss 03-28-06, 06:05 PM	- Originally, you were not supposed to use "and" in the formulation of a wish... - If any spell of lower level can satisfy the formulation of the Wish, then it takes place, giving its effect. - It is on main importance to know who is granting the Wish. According to the alignment and psychology of the wish granter, the interpretation of the formulation might (or should) be twisted or taken very litteraly, word for word. - It is also commonly assumed that a Wish is under the control of the deities of the plane. If you wish for something in the Abyss, don't be surprised of the results... As an example, a player of mine once was given a Wish. He was playing an elf rogue, around level 11 i think... His wish was : "I wish to become a great magician !" Needless to say, he was very happy of his formulation, sure to obtain what he was wishing for. The wish granter was a chaotic dragon. His character indeed became a great magician. He became elf wizard... A first level elf wizard (and lost all his levels of rogue). But he was 6 feet tall. Which is very tall for an elf. Wish granted. He was a great magician...
yourReality 03-28-06, 06:10 PM	i wish, without taking it from another, the lifespan and ability to not degrade due to age, of a Leshay creature. close enough right? no arthritis. and you live forever... i'd just wish to become a leshay. i mean, create bastards swords out of thin air? immortality? and basically albino. i mean cool looking lol
irzg9zh3psgq3m09 03-28-06, 07:19 PM	This is a variant's to True Cavalier's three wishes: 1) Become a lich (or wish it, doesn't matter) 2) Wish for your phylactery to be permanantly imprisoned, as the spell imprisonment. 3) Wish to be permanently under the effect of the spell gentle repose. No "and"'s involved, and they're all just spell effects that are premanent, nothing fancy, so there shouldn't be any complications.
Feor 03-28-06, 07:27 PM	My solution: pick up the Manual of the Planes and the Spell Compendium (so the DM knows you're not trying to gip him) and word it like so: "I wish to be eternally affected as though I were a creature native to the Astral Plane under a Planar Bubble spell, without any physical, mental, or spiritual changes happening to my body, mind, or soul." OR "I wish that, while able to travel freely, wherever my travels may take me, I will always experiance time as though I were on the Astral Plane." Downside of them both is that you won't be able to heal damage naturally, so you'll have to find a ring of regeneration or fast healing. Upside is you'll never get hungry, thirsty, or tired again. (though a Wise DM will make you meditate like an elf to prepare spells) The first has additional downsides in that the Astral Plane has no gravity, so you'd either have to have a fly speed, or find yourself a pair of the gravity boots out of the Planar Handbook.
redarius 03-28-06, 07:28 PM	Really, this is the most classic example of the abused wish and the adage "be careful what you wish for..." A good use of the Wish spell in this context would be to learn knowledge that would set you on a path toward immortality (perhaps divine rank 0, perhaps acquiring a template that doesn't age, perhaps acquiring a subtype that allows for timeless life, etc). If someone tried to pull this off in my campaign I would probably let it happen within the 5000xp cost of the spell, maybe with a few other side effects. This is the sort of thing truly epic quests are driven by. The knowledge can't be a single step, or everyone at a certain power level would have it and it would be meaningless as a goal. A bad use of the Wish spell in this context would be to actually grant the request within the context of the 5000xp cost. If that's how the world is built, fine, but in general immortality must require a terrible price, and I'd shape it that way in any campaign where someone tried to do it.
sooperspook 03-28-06, 07:53 PM	Why? Why does immortality come with a big price? it does absolutely nothing mechanics wise. you never gow old. woohoo. neither does an elan. or warforged. or someone who got 10th level as that Starmetal Adept (or whichever it was). it doesn't give you any extra xp. you can still be killed thru violence. you can still be poisoned. or have an accident. (given that you're an adventurer i'd say its pretty much guaranteed you'll die from violence as opposed to old age). being immortal doesn't grant you any special "I can kill everything in a ten kilometer radius" ability. Just WHAT is the big deal that everyone and his dog wants to screw over the player who wishes for it? turned to stone, encased in amber, changed race (and losing all previous abilities), given LA, etc etc etc... and don't give me that tired old 'All wishes have side effects' bull dust. THEY DON'T! Only wishes above the power of a 9th level spell have side effects and even then is at the DM's discretion.
irzg9zh3psgq3m09 03-28-06, 08:04 PM	Another simple way is to wish to expand your lifespan to be as long as time itself while under the effect of timeless body, as the monk's ability. You won't change to any type this way (such as undead, construct, etc.) and you can still be killed unnaturally, but other than that you'll live naturally forever.
CryoSilver 03-28-06, 08:12 PM	Well, how about mechanically? Assuming you cast when you haven't accrued any penalties yet, you stand to lose 18 ability score points going from adult to venerable. Wish can grant you +1 to an ability score... Essentially, just offsetting the penalty; in fact; why not have it directly cancel the loss? 18 Wishes is a lot, and I'd even say make it 19 (18 for the points, 1 more for actually aging). So why not?
Xavon_Wrentaile 03-28-06, 08:38 PM	How about: I wish for the ability to perfectly control my physical age, growing older or younger by act of will, with all the benefits of that physical age.
CryoSilver 03-28-06, 08:41 PM	Which would mean that now, you need an act of will every moment of your life, or you stop aging totally: your blood stops flowing, your muscles stop undulating, your neurons stop firing; you are frozen at EXACTLY the age you stop concentrating, and can't move, because that requires you to move through time. Essentially, as soon as you stop concentrating, you are frozen like Temporal Stasis
belthazzar1113 03-28-06, 09:02 PM	double post
belthazzar1113 03-28-06, 09:03 PM	if your really wanting to be immortal, then you might consider looking at monte cooks works. there is a ninth level spell there called immortality. and its possible to use a wish to learn that spell (or if you already know it to wish around the rather steep component price) it renders you ageless and provides some nifty other benfits like fast healing desease immunity, body part regrowth, damage reduction. and all it takes is the sacrifice of one character of a level equal to yours or higher who is willing to die to make you immortal. you can use a wish to get this as a one time supernatural casting, or wish for someone as powerful or more powerful than you who would be willing to sacrifice themselves so you can be immortal.... i mean the universe is infinte right? and there are infinte primes accessable through the plane of shadow... so somewhere out there there has to be a level 20 suicidal character willing to make you immortal for the betterment of the universe. a wish would be able to find them :) of course wishing for anything like this is DM interpretable... so if you really want, why not just wish to be elan? they are immortal and age less... all you would give up is whatever other race traits you have. and you get the elan traits... they are ageless, psionic, have some nifty little damage soak and saving throw abilities... just work on being one of them. wish to be elan without losing your current knowldge. that should pretty much do it. btw elan are in the psionics book.
Beckett 03-28-06, 10:08 PM	How about " I wish, for myself to be made immortal, without anything else about my racial background or ancestry (type/subtype) being altered, nor anything about my present circumstances at the moment of the beginning of the casting of this spell being altered by the magics of my wish, nor any other creature being affected by me ascending to immortality. Further more, I wish that, save for a more powerful wish from another, or that I myself wish again that I be made once more mortal, that my immortality would continue as if it was a natural aspect of my birth." This covers all of the ill effects of a monkey paw wish, but if you read the last sentence of Wish, (which is about this specifically), despete how you word it, the DM is well within their rights to grant only a part of what you wish.
Seeker95 03-28-06, 10:17 PM	You ask...Why? Why does immortality come with a big price?Then end with[/quote=sooperspook]Only wishes above the power of a 9th level spell have side effects and even then is at the DM's discretion.[/QUOTE]So, what 9th level spell grants immortality? immortality 1. The quality or condition of being immortal. 2. Endless life or existence. immortal 1. Not subject to death: immortal deities; the immortal soul. Do you know of any 9th level spells that turn you into a deity?
Kram_Rignes 03-30-06, 03:24 PM	As i have said, our DM allowed me to wish for immortality but not to the extent that i will not die at any cost. He only allows me to live for "eternity" but it must be a carefully worded wish for not to have a side effects on it. FYI, our campaign is 3yrs old now, and my character is a human lvl17 (sorc 14/ Blood magus 3) and 10k exp to reach lvl 18. I also have thought about having a template like being a half-celestial or a lich but the LA will give me a hard time as time goes by. But I appreciate all your help and suggestions about this thread. One more thing: being a half-celestial/celestial would make you "immortal" or i mean, ageless?
Kresalak 03-30-06, 03:36 PM	If a DM is twisting a Wish, that Wish better not cost 5000 XP. That cost is you, the caster, paying for the Wish.
Tyrasius 03-30-06, 03:41 PM	As i have said, our DM allowed me to wish for immortality but not to the extent that i will not die at any cost. He only allows me to live for "eternity" but it must be a carefully worded wish for not to have a side effects on it. FYI, our campaign is 3yrs old now, and my character is a human lvl17 (sorc 14/ Blood magus 3) and 10k exp to reach lvl 18. I also have thought about having a template like being a half-celestial or a lich but the LA will give me a hard time as time goes by. But I appreciate all your help and suggestions about this thread. One more thing: being a half-celestial/celestial would make you "immortal" or i mean, ageless? Your DM isn't thinking this through. If every high level wizard could become immortal just by wishing it, and woreding it correctly, the place would be swarming with them. After all with an intelligence of at least 19, and probably higher, it's pretty easy to figure out how to word something correctly, so there are no loopholes. Of course, since I'm not your DM, and you probably won't tell him this because you want to be immortal, your game will continue with you immortal and a gaping logical mishap in it. Whatever, I'm just glad I'm not in it. (in know way am I trying to offend anyone with this post, I just would like to state my opinion that your DM needs to think about the wish ruling longer, whatever is fun for you, should be done by you)
The_WhiteRabbit 03-30-06, 03:53 PM	Your DM isn't thinking this through. If every high level wizard could become immortal just by wishing it, and woreding it correctly, the place would be swarming with them. After all with an intelligence of at least 19, and probably higher, it's pretty easy to figure out how to word something correctly, so there are no loopholes. Of course, since I'm not your DM, and you probably won't tell him this because you want to be immortal, your game will continue with you immortal and a gaping logical mishap in it. Whatever, I'm just glad I'm not in it. (in know way am I trying to offend anyone with this post, I just would like to state my opinion that your DM needs to think about the wish ruling longer, whatever is fun for you, should be done by you) Except it probably requires a high wisdom, and not intelligence to figure out how to word something so there are no loopholes. Maybe even both. Intelligence to come up with the wording, wisdom to realize, "hey, this is a bad idea." Another reason there might not be so many high level wizards/sorcerers running around is that there aren't that many level 18+ wizards/sorcerers in a given world. Of those, many are probably content to NOT live forever. Really, if they've met one elf who has befreinded humans, they could easily see the drawbacks to a long lifespan--let alone an eternal one.
Mist of Shadows 03-30-06, 04:57 PM	I have ran a campaign for a few years, I have people that became age less. Npcs and pcs both. For the most part most people don't want to live forever. Also you tind to attract glory seekers of lets kill Gormp the immortal. I apply the principal of diminising returns to most of my npcs. Most people lose that drive that took them to where they were. They relize at some point that charging the 6 balors is a bad idea. (stupid chain exploding balors) They slow down grow old and die with grand children at their bedsides. The ones that go for immortality are normally evil. Being that there isn't really an ic way to explain La (stupid concept but needed I guess for a game) The evil people look at becoming vampires, or lichs or things that grant them power. Why just be ageless when you can be almost unkillable *lich*, or vampire. Maybe they were going for immortality but something went wrong and they turned into a vampire. The good people some times go after it but that means endless lifetimes spent fighting the forces of evil. At some point they tend to get tired. So while there might be some that would go for it. There aren't alot that are willing to do much about it. Fear is another :) If you have heard legends about Gromph the immortal and how he has to drink the blood of a virgin every day to stay alive. (true or not) Then how willing are you to follow that dark path. You will spend 90% more time then you have just going over things to make sure that same fate doesn't befall you. Maybe every immortal is flawed maybe not but here is the arguement. You can change your type to outsider sure. There are a few ways to do that, change your body into a construct. Does it have that much effect on game balance not really no. But to remain human and be immortal that is a challenge yes? If it was as simple as wishing for immortality what would be the fun? If all you had to do was wear this necklace and it would take the aging instead of you. What happens if it breaks? What happens when the heros villians or what not break it? There are many stories of villians dieing in horrible ways when the item that stopped them from aging was broken. I deal with immortality by each method of gaining it only really working once. It's like a cosmic loophole that the gods fix. (or the evil wizard destroying research he used or the good one relizing what a mistake it would be if everyone gained immortality) Sure Gromp the immortal managed it but nothing says you can. As for wishing for it, well the best advice I would give is this. DON'T let them have true immortality that way. A wish is powerful enough to slow time's pull for a while. :) Simply tell the players that it's a temperary thing. Maybe it gives an extra 10 to 100 years with each wish giving less. This will give people time to find other more interesting options and weed out the ones that get killed trying. Use and abuse the death god's followers that can't be happy about immortals. As long as you are willing to figure out the why of things, immortality isn't that big a deal kept to small levels. Most campaigns aren't all that long in the grand scheme of things.
Kyuketsukiouji 03-30-06, 07:22 PM	Why is it that people seem determined to bend over and ask to get it up the nethers by making wishes that are so clearly outside the scope of the spell's abilities? It doesn't matter how awesome your lawyer-fu is, what you're asking for is just way too far out in power levels to be attained by a Wish. As far as I know, there is one, count them one, way of living forever without some kind of type tranformation (which usually adds LAs or 10 or so class levels), and that's a unique magic item in the possession of one FR drow archwizard. Which means that, unless you have a giant chunk of xp to burn on replicating the item in question, you've just signed up for a twisted Wish. Wish is, at long last, no longer about phrasing. It's about power levels, now.
smrtgmp 03-30-06, 07:59 PM	I let PCs slow there aging with a wish, but I dont give them outright imortatity. Each wish can slow the aging process by a factor of 10 IMC.
Chrono Nexus 03-30-06, 09:58 PM	Just wish to become a native outsider permanently... you live forever, you get simple weapon prof., light armor prof., and you can still be ressurected if you die. As long as someone knows your name- because of a deed you did in life- you could always be reincarnated if your power is needed by the living.
smrtgmp 03-30-06, 10:53 PM	dont outsiders get martial weapon proficiency? Traits An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry). * Darkvision out to 60 feet. * Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. * Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry. * Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor. * Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep. emphasis mine It should also be noted that being an outsider does not automatically grant armor proficiency.
Chrono Nexus 03-30-06, 11:06 PM	Native outsiders are slightly different, I just made an assumption about the armor. THe outsider(native) subtype is similar but weaker. A native outsider can be raised, it is native to its home plane, and it lives until killed (does not age). Otherwise, they still need to eat, sleep, and rest like any other living creature.
smrtgmp 03-30-06, 11:19 PM	Native outsiders are still outsiders. In fact, if you look at the quote I refrenced, it mentions Native outsiders, and specifies where they differ from outsiders (such as being raisable and having to eat and breath). As there is no difference listed under the weapon proficiencies, they have the standard outsider traits. Thats one of the reasons aasimars and tieflings make good choices if you plan on going into a PrC like eldritch knight that requires martial weapon proficiency (especially if you use the LA buyoff).
PlasmaBunny 03-31-06, 02:40 AM	I fail to see how power comes into it... Most campaigns last till either the entire party dies, or the campaign story ends. At worst, having an immortal PC will result in that same PC showing up in a later campaign, possibly thousands of years in the future. Randomly determined NPCs cap at level 16 (A roll of 4 + 12 for a metropolis), resulting in them only having access to level 8 spells at best. Add in the fact wish costs quite abit of XP (not an easy thing to aquire for NPCs). It hardly seems out of the scope of a wish to live forever, if a level 7 spell (polymorph any object) can change someone into a race that lives forever (Elan, or that race from Races of the Wild), it doesn't seem beyond wishes scope to allow someone to live forever. Wishes essentially have unlimited power, they just have limits in game for game balance, and extending a characters life span, does not affect balance in any way.
Valoy_Muniz 03-31-06, 08:34 AM	Just as a fyi there was a potion in 2nd edition that made you something like 2d10 years younger (there was also alot of ageing effects in game tho). The problem was each time you drank 1 you had a cumutive chance (1% each time) that it would fail and regain all the age you lost from drinking this potion. In my games if the players where about epic level when the game ended it is a chance you can see them in a nother game ether much older or as a god (rank 0).
The_Blob 03-31-06, 08:51 AM	:confused: How about adding the phrase: "with no effects towards myself that I deem undesirable in my current state of cognition" ("current" being NOW, pre-wish).
FEADIN1 03-31-06, 09:16 AM	Just as a fyi there was a potion in 2nd edition that made you something like 2d10 years younger (there was also alot of ageing effects in game tho). The problem was each time you drank 1 you had a cumutive chance (1% each time) that it would fail and regain all the age you lost from drinking this potion. In my games if the players where about epic level when the game ended it is a chance you can see them in a nother game ether much older or as a god (rank 0). ADD, potion of longevity, you become 1d12 years younger (physicaly and/or mentaly was the question, we ruled physicaly so you can keep mental bonuses from aging and erase physical penalties). In 3.x there is no more aging effects, no needs for this potion. Also: Extended Life Span [Epic] Benefit Add one-half the maximum result of your race’s maximum age modifier to your normal middle age, old, and venerable age categories. Calculate your maximum age using the new venerable number. This feat can’t lower your current age category. Special You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.
Seeker95 03-31-06, 09:23 AM	potion of longevity, you become 1d12 years younger (physicaly and/or mentaly was the question, we ruled physicaly so you can keep mental bonuses from aging and erase physical penalties).I would rule that Intelligence does not change, but Wisdom and Charisma do. You won't forget what you learned, but suddenly finding yourself in a younger body is enough to take the tact and humility away from anyone -- and these contribute directly to wisdom and charisma.
FEADIN1 03-31-06, 10:20 AM	I would rule that Intelligence does not change, but Wisdom and Charisma do. You won't forget what you learned, but suddenly finding yourself in a younger body is enough to take the tact and humility away from anyone -- and these contribute directly to wisdom and charisma. Maybe but we ruled that way in this time where the rules were not so precise ;)
Knight0 03-31-06, 12:41 PM	If your casting wish I wouldnt be wishing to be an elan with the whole reset to level 1 thing. Problem with any wish for immortallity is when your struck down by a disease or old age you might turn into a zombie or worse (Film: Death becomes her). If you want immortallity try getting turned into a vamp or a Lich or take levels in monk or druid.
Zeful 03-31-06, 12:51 PM	The only way for immortality is to die. What happens is you either take enough levels in druid to cast reincarnate, or become really friendly with one so they'll cast it on you. Be a high enough level sorc or wiz to cast wish and convince the DM that wish to return you to your orignial body after reincarnate doesn't age you any. Commit suicide reincarnate then wish back to your orgininal body. rings of greater spell stroing help alot.
tharveysinjin 03-31-06, 01:51 PM	This question has perplexed many a powerful adventurer and many who I would suggest are more powerful than your character, did not achieve their desired goal. Even in D&D literature, many have tried and failed. In the Greyhawk setting, Vecna's original drive was to make himself immortal. He was an extremely powerful wizard, and yet, even he finally settled on becomming undead because other means escaped him. Raistlin Majere sought immortality, albeit through divinity, and while he came ever so close, and in fact, could have achieved success, he would have done so at the expense of all life on Krynn. So, he surrendered himself to the eternal torment of Takhissis. ***SPOILER ALERT*** In the version 3.0 core modules, the dragon Ashardalon seeks to preserve his life in such a way that could lead to immortality. However, in order to extend his life, the dragon was essentially imprisoned in the Bastion of the Unborn. So, while there are examples of characters becoming immortal, in many cases, the price for such immortality is hardly worth it. That's not to say that there are not examples of mortals in the D&D multiverse who have achieved immortality. Zagyg Ygerne was mortal, as was Al Akbar and many of the quasi and hero deities of the Flaness. In these cases though, a common theme seems to be the fact that the individual seeking immortality had the sponsorship of at least a lesser deity. The individual was also required to perform some type of incredible feat as well. In the case of Zagyg Ygerne, he was required to imprison nine demigods of opposing alignments. He succeeded and was made a demigod himself. Of course, there could be other ways to achieve a type of "immortality". Being undead could extend one's life, but being undead is probably not what most people want for themselves. Or perhaps, in answer to your wish, your DM might allow you to become the owner of the Necklace of Soul Switching, an artifact worn by the high priestess of Vecna which has allowed her to live for the last 400 years. The use of the necklace requires a victim, whose body is effectively stolen by the soul of the necklace's user. Of course, the "Immortality" provided by the necklace requires repeated use throughout time. Use of the necklace permits the character to keep his or her own intelligence, wisdom, charisma and class level, but strength, dexterity and constitution are determined by that of the new body. Use of such an item is certainly an evil act, but, perhaps your wish might alter your alignment accordingly. You'd also bear the eternal emnity of the cult of Vecna and spend your immortality forever on the run. You might also find a "Fountain of Youth" in some steamy marsh, where a drink from the fountain restores youth. Only after would you learn that in order to keep your youth, you'd have to stay within 30 feet of the pool of water. Taking water in a container and then drinking it later would cause you to age horribly, such as from Iuz's staff of withering. Your DM might also decide to put you on the path to divinity and allow you to receive the sponsorship of some deity. However, if you were to ever achieve such a state, would your character not become an NPC? In the end, I think that immortality can be great if used as the vehicle that drives a character's ambition, but it's probably best for the DM to dangle that carrot in front of the character and to never let the desire become fully satisfied. In this way, the journey cn become most memorable for the player character, which is satisfying on a level of its own. After all, what is more enjoyable: 1. Being a powerful character with hardly any challenges or 2. the time spent fleshing out and perfecting the persona, the skills, and the abilities of a powerful character over many adventures and experiences?
nightwing 03-31-06, 02:06 PM	I would grant a wish for immortality by giving the character a necklace/amulet/ring/crown/whatever that prevented the character from physical aging as long as it was being worn. Eventually it would be found out that it was such a device and everybody and his mother would be gunning for it. That would make for some really cool adventures, and add great flavor to the game.