Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tillie_the_Pirate 01-29-06, 04:00 PM	What would such a ghastly world be like? Full of terror around every corner, no doubt! Fish would eat bears! Trees would eat ponies! I would eat peaches! Aaaaaggghhh!! Seriously, though, with a much more serious tone, Magic Missile is arguably the most overused spell in D&D. It virtually always hits, it virtually always deals damage, and as you raise your level, the damage and the missiles increase. Not to mention, you can have multiple targets at once. I think a world without Magic Missile would be all that much better, at least in the sense if the magic-using classes being a little more balanced. But at the same time, Magic Missile is D&D's signature spell. What to think?
Temrek 01-29-06, 04:12 PM	I dont think MM is overpowered at all, it is the good ol' trusty, but it aint the big guns so to speak.
Fireballs_are_Awesome 01-29-06, 05:19 PM	Magic Missile is a good spell and I would like it to remain there.
DevilKiller 01-29-06, 05:35 PM	In the average game, Magic Missile is a reliable, workhorse type spell. It allows the party mage to pump out a little damage each round with a very good chance of success against most opponents with the notable exception of other mages, who probably have Shield cast. I think a variant where your Shield expired after soakig up a certain amount of Magic Missile damage would be quite fun for magely duels, but that's beside the point. The only time I've seen Magic Missile become a problem is when there are multiple, allied casters. A bunch of people with Magic Missile can inflict massive, hard to avoid damage pretty quickly. I'm currently running a game for 5 arcane casters, so I know all about this...
Molimo 01-29-06, 05:39 PM	Magic Missile is the reason why spellcasters are well-known as powerhouses in the early game. O WAIT
Arcticflare 01-29-06, 06:01 PM	I disagree. I have seen disintegrate and fireball used much more often. It's only a d4+1 damage early on, and it still can't compare to the others at higher levels. Also, it can be stopped very easily. Brooch of shielding, anybody? Magic Missile is a great spell, but it is definetly not overpowered. It takes determination to make it overpowered. Which is why my Eberron Wizard has just finished the Force Missile Mage prestige class (Dragon, issue unknown). Now that I can add an energy subscriptor and use Maximize Spell. A Red Dragon getting hit by my beefed up magic missile is only going to take 70 points of damage. Did I mention Still Spell can be used without making it a higher level spell? :evillaugh Granted, anything with Spell Immunity or tons of hit points is going to be a problem.
Alamanther's comeback 01-29-06, 06:01 PM	Yeah... Let's remove magic missile... And cure light wounds... And longswords, don't forget longswords - so many fighters use them! Seriously, magic missile is neither overpowered nor over-used. A first level the caster does a modest 1d4+1 points of damage with it - okay, so it's an automatic hit (taking SR out of the equation), but against most low level creatures, sleep is far deadlier, as is color spray. At 3rd level, it goes up to 2d4+2 - that's 7 point of damage on average, kiddies - hardly fatal to a CR 3 monster, and no greater than what should be expected from a fighter with a longsword; sure, a 3rd level fighter may miss with the aforementioned longsword, but he can keep on swinging. How many magic missiles does the 3rd level wizard have, do you think? Magic missile is a staple of the game, and there are no real balance issues that suggest it should be otherwise.
Nom 01-29-06, 06:04 PM	Frankly, a player who chooses magic missile as his primary first (character) level attack spell has no idea how to play an effective spellcaster. From about 7th level, it's a useful utility combat spell. Prior to that, 1d4+1 per 2 caster levels pales into insignificance compared to protection from X, grease, mage armour, obscuring mist, summon monster I, charm person, sleep, ray of enfeeblement, enlarge person, and possibly some other 1st level spells I've forgotten to mention. Heck, at 1st character level even daze is more useful than magic missile. Compare: half crossbow damage (and less than half of a fighter with a sword) vs rendering an otherwise dangerous opponent unable to act for a round. The same holds true at almost any level. Don't try to compete hit point for hit point with the characters that are designed to deal lots of damage; instead, make it easier for them to do their job.
Morotis 01-29-06, 06:13 PM	If we're removing longswords we need to get rid of chain mail, scale mail, chain shirts, and lets not forget to ban all potions! YEAH! POTIONS CAN STUFF IT! Sry, I have to agree with everyone, Magic Missle is not overpowered, but its loved and adored. An Arcane Caster W/O Magic Missle is a Arcane spellcaster naught. That's right Bards, you are NOT arcane spellcasters! What kind of arcane spellcaster cures wounds!? The Arcane Caster's job is to blow the enemy to high heaven!
Muddball 01-29-06, 06:32 PM	Why take it out. if you are, you seriously MIGHT want to consider taking armor out too. everybody uses it, and it not fair that if your wearing it, other people (like wizards!) can't hit you.
Driden 01-29-06, 08:40 PM	Ok guys...we get the point about getting rid of the longswords, potions, armor, wizards, etc. I mean seriously, three of you basically posted the exact same lame comment. Ok now back to the topic: I agree with Nom. Magic Missile isnt a very good spell early on if not later. The damage is just way too weak...but I guess that what you get if you want better accuracy. I can see it being a pretty hardcore spell if casted by a bunch of wizzies and sorcerors though. In any case, I really don't see a point of taking it out. Ofcourse, I wouldn't really care if they did since I never use the spell. :bored:
Vaalingrade Ashland 01-29-06, 08:54 PM	A world without wood! Wood is arguably the most overused material in D&D. It holds out wind and rain, forms the base of most weapons and holds up structures. Not to mention, you can make paper with it. I think a world without wood would be all that much better, at least in the sense if the crafting classes being a little more balanced.
Tillie_the_Pirate 01-29-06, 09:57 PM	A world without wood! Wood is arguably the most overused material in D&D. It holds out wind and rain, forms the base of most weapons and holds up structures. Not to mention, you can make paper with it. I think a world without wood would be all that much better, at least in the sense if the crafting classes being a little more balanced. Your guys are waaay too funny. I'm laughing like I've never laughed before!!!
Silverthumb128 01-29-06, 10:45 PM	I think Magic Missile should have the effect of changing the color of one worn object on the target. For example, the helmet on a Cleric of Corellon Larethian turns from green to light purple. Ooh, the situational comedy is infinite. :D That, and the Slaad lord, Rennbuu, would find himself in love with a new spell.
Melendwyr 01-29-06, 11:18 PM	It should probably be a second-level Exotic spell, at the very least. Why? In addition to being guaranteed to hit its target and the scaling damage, it's utterly Empowerable, and it's Force damage, so it will hit incorporeal creatures.
LordofNightmares 01-29-06, 11:37 PM	How can Magic Missile be overpowered when its the baseline that everything else is rated against?
Melendwyr 01-30-06, 12:16 AM	It's not the baseline, it represents the very maximum that should ever be allowed. It's the ceiling, the upper limit, eleven on a ten-setting dial.
Ryll 01-30-06, 12:45 AM	It's not the baseline, it represents the very maximum that should ever be allowed. It's the ceiling, the upper limit, eleven on a ten-setting dial. The maximum? It allows the caster to reliably do some damage. It will always be less then the fighter is doing with his sword. It's "scaled damage" is so far behind the damage curve that it is merely a fallback spell when you do not want to use, or have used, all your higher level spells. Empowering it means taking a higher level spell slot, and in most cases, using the spell of that level means more damage anyway. Magic Missile is the stable, reliable work horse. It is NEVER awe inspiring, and even when 5 casters get together to cast it, the 5 rangers would have severely outdamaged it with arrows, or the 5 warriors outdamaged it with swords...etc. They already made up for it's always hitting by making it paultry damage at best. I still use it from time to time, but as a sure thing speck of damage. If I need decent damage, I always use something else. Please remember that casters are not big power hitters until probably 13th level or later (and even then their power is rarely, if ever, in damage), and by then, they are not using magic missile to impress anyone. Keep magic missile in the game, it allows the midlevel caster to do less then average damage, instead of next-to-zero damage :)
Silverthumb128 01-30-06, 12:45 AM	It's not the baseline, it represents the very maximum that should ever be allowed. It's the ceiling, the upper limit, eleven on a ten-setting dial. 5 damage maximum=uber 10 damage max=omfgwtfbbq etc/3 levels