Abilities from shapechange - per day or per casting? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Abilities from shapechange - per day or per casting? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
runestar
07-11-07, 11:04 PM Just curious, say I use shapechange to transform into a creature with SU abilities usable a limited number of times/day (such as an aboleth's enslave ability), how are they tracked and when will they be refreshed?

Does this mean that I can only use enslave 3/day, even if I cast shapechange several times? Or do I get new uses if I recast shapechange after the previous casting expires? What if I shifted from an aboleth to say, a lantern archon, then back to aboleth again?

Thanks in advance for your reply.:)
arjomanes
07-11-07, 11:27 PM In my mind it seems like you'd get to recharge when you cast the spell, since the spell Shapechange gives you the supernatural abilities when you previously had none.

Example 1: you are an aboleth which has used up its supernatural abilities.

Example 2: you are an elf.

Either way, you aren't able to use the supernatural abilities of an aboleth.

But if you then shapechange into an aboleth, you gain the aboleth's supernatural abilities and lose whatever supernatural abilities you currently have.

So I think it would reset.

It's a very powerful spell, and I think this use would be consistent.
Terraneaux
07-11-07, 11:41 PM Technically, no, given how ability score increases work with sorcerer spell slots and turning attempts/day.

And really, there isn't a need to make shapechange any more broken than it is already.
tarkin
07-12-07, 10:52 AM I can not see it reseting. The limit is per day, NOT per creature per day.

More importantly, this is a relatively minor limit - so you can't use the exact same ability more than 1/day, you can always shapechange into another creature with a seperate 1/day power and use it.

P.S. Please remember the Sage's ruling that if you are a creature that has access to an ability that duplicates a spell that costs XP you must pay the XP. x/day is like spell slots, it does not change what other costs you have to pay. This prevents most of the "Wish" abuses that certain players get so fond of.
arjomanes
07-12-07, 02:44 PM Thanks for the spell slot comparison and the Sage Advice ruling.

My thought had been since you could just shapechange into another creature with an equally powerful 1/day power, then resetting a 1/day ability is fairly comparable with that.

Also the plain reading of the rule seemed to support resetting. I didn't see any clear direction on why it should be banned. Though I'm willing to admit the spell slot ruling makes sense. I think that's a fair way to run it too.

I think that by the time you have a wizard in your game casting shapechange, it doesn't much matter.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
runestar 07-11-07, 11:04 PM	Just curious, say I use shapechange to transform into a creature with SU abilities usable a limited number of times/day (such as an aboleth's enslave ability), how are they tracked and when will they be refreshed? Does this mean that I can only use enslave 3/day, even if I cast shapechange several times? Or do I get new uses if I recast shapechange after the previous casting expires? What if I shifted from an aboleth to say, a lantern archon, then back to aboleth again? Thanks in advance for your reply.:)
arjomanes 07-11-07, 11:27 PM	In my mind it seems like you'd get to recharge when you cast the spell, since the spell Shapechange gives you the supernatural abilities when you previously had none. Example 1: you are an aboleth which has used up its supernatural abilities. Example 2: you are an elf. Either way, you aren't able to use the supernatural abilities of an aboleth. But if you then shapechange into an aboleth, you gain the aboleth's supernatural abilities and lose whatever supernatural abilities you currently have. So I think it would reset. It's a very powerful spell, and I think this use would be consistent.
Terraneaux 07-11-07, 11:41 PM	Technically, no, given how ability score increases work with sorcerer spell slots and turning attempts/day. And really, there isn't a need to make shapechange any more broken than it is already.
tarkin 07-12-07, 10:52 AM	I can not see it reseting. The limit is per day, NOT per creature per day. More importantly, this is a relatively minor limit - so you can't use the exact same ability more than 1/day, you can always shapechange into another creature with a seperate 1/day power and use it. P.S. Please remember the Sage's ruling that if you are a creature that has access to an ability that duplicates a spell that costs XP you must pay the XP. x/day is like spell slots, it does not change what other costs you have to pay. This prevents most of the "Wish" abuses that certain players get so fond of.
arjomanes 07-12-07, 02:44 PM	Thanks for the spell slot comparison and the Sage Advice ruling. My thought had been since you could just shapechange into another creature with an equally powerful 1/day power, then resetting a 1/day ability is fairly comparable with that. Also the plain reading of the rule seemed to support resetting. I didn't see any clear direction on why it should be banned. Though I'm willing to admit the spell slot ruling makes sense. I think that's a fair way to run it too. I think that by the time you have a wizard in your game casting shapechange, it doesn't much matter.