Ability Damage while ability is boosted [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ability Damage while ability is boosted [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JimmytheHand
12-06-05, 03:15 PM My DM and I are having a debate about what happens when a character who has an enhanced ability, i.e. Cat's Grace who then takes ability damage.

Does it come from the character's temperary ability 1st and then from the usual ability. (As I think)

Or

Does it come from the normal ability so that when the spell ends the normal stat is reduced?

We've debated this one for a couple of days now as we didn't think that the rules were clear on it. If you know of any official ruling we'd appreciate it if you could link us to it or just tell us which book we should've looked in before pestering you guys. :D

Thanks.

PS sorry if this is in the wrong thread, but I couldn't see a better spot for it.
Lord Lorac Silvanos
12-06-05, 03:37 PM I am afraid taht your DM is correct.

One is damage the other is enhancement bonus.
Damage taken stays until it is removed either through natural means (in this case 1 point per day) or by magic. The Enhancement bonus helps as long as it is effective, but it does not cure damage.
Following your logic a 5 HD creature that had taken 10 hp damage while wearing an Amulet of Health + 4 would have 0 hp damage if the Amulet was removed.

From the SRD:
Ability Damage: This attack damages an opponent’s ability score. The creature’s descriptive text gives the ability and the amount of damage. If an attack that causes ability damage scores a critical hit, it deals twice the indicated amount of damage (if the damage is expressed as a die range, roll two dice). Ability damage returns at the rate of 1 point per day for each affected ability.

From the SRD:
Cat's Grace
The transmuted creature becomes more graceful, agile, and coordinated. The spell grants a +4 enhancement bonus to Dexterity, adding the usual benefits to AC, Reflex saves, and other uses of the Dexterity modifier.
Seeker95
12-06-05, 04:03 PM As written: neither (technically).
When you get the bonus, you add X to your base score. B + X is your current total.
When you take damage Y, subtract it from your total. B + X - Y is your current total.
When your enahncement spell ends, subtract X from your score. B + X - Y - X is your current total.
Net result: B - Y (Your DM is closest to "right")

(B = Base score)
Nom
12-06-05, 06:44 PM I agree with Seeker.

Unfortunately, weird side effects occur when Y > B and you remove X.

Eg: Character with Str 10, gains bull's strength (Str 14), then takes 13 points of Str damage, reducing him to 1. bull's strength wears off, reducing him by 4, to 0. If bull's strength is cast on him again, his score could rise to 4 (0 + 4), rather than 1.

The scenario becomes more problematic when we use a non-expendable resource (eg gauntlets of strength) rather than an expendable resource (bull's strength).

Ways to handle it:
(1) It works as above (which is RAW)
(2) You can't apply an enhancement bonus to a 0 score
(3) Other house rules

None are particularly satisfactory, unfortunately.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JimmytheHand 12-06-05, 03:15 PM	My DM and I are having a debate about what happens when a character who has an enhanced ability, i.e. Cat's Grace who then takes ability damage. Does it come from the character's temperary ability 1st and then from the usual ability. (As I think) Or Does it come from the normal ability so that when the spell ends the normal stat is reduced? We've debated this one for a couple of days now as we didn't think that the rules were clear on it. If you know of any official ruling we'd appreciate it if you could link us to it or just tell us which book we should've looked in before pestering you guys. :D Thanks. PS sorry if this is in the wrong thread, but I couldn't see a better spot for it.
Lord Lorac Silvanos 12-06-05, 03:37 PM	I am afraid taht your DM is correct. One is damage the other is enhancement bonus. Damage taken stays until it is removed either through natural means (in this case 1 point per day) or by magic. The Enhancement bonus helps as long as it is effective, but it does not cure damage. Following your logic a 5 HD creature that had taken 10 hp damage while wearing an Amulet of Health + 4 would have 0 hp damage if the Amulet was removed. From the SRD: Ability Damage: This attack damages an opponent’s ability score. The creature’s descriptive text gives the ability and the amount of damage. If an attack that causes ability damage scores a critical hit, it deals twice the indicated amount of damage (if the damage is expressed as a die range, roll two dice). Ability damage returns at the rate of 1 point per day for each affected ability. From the SRD: Cat's Grace The transmuted creature becomes more graceful, agile, and coordinated. The spell grants a +4 enhancement bonus to Dexterity, adding the usual benefits to AC, Reflex saves, and other uses of the Dexterity modifier.
Seeker95 12-06-05, 04:03 PM	As written: neither (technically). When you get the bonus, you add X to your base score. B + X is your current total. When you take damage Y, subtract it from your total. B + X - Y is your current total. When your enahncement spell ends, subtract X from your score. B + X - Y - X is your current total. Net result: B - Y (Your DM is closest to "right") (B = Base score)
Nom 12-06-05, 06:44 PM	I agree with Seeker. Unfortunately, weird side effects occur when Y > B and you remove X. Eg: Character with Str 10, gains bull's strength (Str 14), then takes 13 points of Str damage, reducing him to 1. bull's strength wears off, reducing him by 4, to 0. If bull's strength is cast on him again, his score could rise to 4 (0 + 4), rather than 1. The scenario becomes more problematic when we use a non-expendable resource (eg gauntlets of strength) rather than an expendable resource (bull's strength). Ways to handle it: (1) It works as above (which is RAW) (2) You can't apply an enhancement bonus to a 0 score (3) Other house rules None are particularly satisfactory, unfortunately.