Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TWG_Prometheus 02-27-04, 12:54 PM	I've been playing an Abjurer in one of the campaigns I'm in recently, and I've noticed that there are some real problems with Arcane abjuration. In my mind, first of all, Abjuration should be a very wizardly thing to do, but they are largely outdone by Clerics in this critical school. Spell Resistance and Freedom of Movement, both very important Abjuration spells, are limited to the Clerical list, and a very large number of Abjuration spells are cast more efficiently and at a lower level by Clerics. Annoying to the extreme, but I can get by. The second problem I'm having is in finding good, reliable Abjuration spells in some spell levels. The 4th spell level in particular is uninspiring. I've heard some people talk highly of Dimensional Anchor, but unless your DM is very big into teleporting your BBEGs away, it isn't all that much of a problem in many cases. A good spell, yes, but is it what you want to memorize every day? Stoneskin is nice as well, but carrying around 250 gp worth of diamond dust for each casting keeps it out of the each-day school as well. Protection from Arrows in 2nd is near useless by the time you reach 3rd level or so, as most anything that is shot at you will have some kind of magical effect on it, and higher level Abjurations are focused very highly on Banishing outsiders, which is really a very limited field. Also, raising saving throws, which should be an important function of the school as evidenced that their ONLY zero level spell does that very thing is totally absent from 3rd level with Magic Circle until 8th level, and then only to raise saves vs spells. The description from the PHB about the nature of the Abjuration school states: "Abjurations are protective spells. They create physical or magical barriers, negate magical or physical abilities, harm trespassers, or even banish the subject of the spell to another plane of existene." Taken in turn: 1. Creating Physical or magical barriers: The Sor/Wiz list is pretty light here. The Magic Circle vs. Alignment, along with Arrows and the really late game Prismatic Wall/Sphere and Repulsion at 6th. Would it have really hurt Evocation to send Wall of Force three schools up on the list? 2. Negate Magical or Physical Abilities: Negating magical abilities I can't have a complaint with. It's simply irresponsible of a wizard to not have Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic, and Antimagic Field, Protection from Spells, Spell Turning, and Mordenkainen's Disjunction are all there for backup. Great, except for the caster level caps on Greater Dispel Magic that just kill an epic level caster. Whatever happened to negating physical abilities, though? It's so absent I'm not even sure what they meant by this. 3. Harm Trespassers: OK, starting with Arcane Lock and Hold Portal, we're not all that badly off. Yes, we haven't hurt the dirty little kids mucking around in my castle yet, but we're fine. Explosive Runes is fun, as someone is bound to read the false map I've created for my stronghold, but Fire Trap...1d4+caster level damage? Guards and Wards is great at 6th, and I don't even want to know what anything higher will do. I'm still noticing a problem, though. This is an NPC thing. Explosive Runes for a PC? Yeah, maybe I'll find a use for it, but not at 3rd level, when I'm going to be memorizing Protection from Energy/Magic Circle vs. Evil/Dispel Magic not to mention wanting to get to Haste, Fly, Heroism, and Displacement. 4. Banishing: No complaints here, aside from that, as stated before, it's really kind of limited. Getting rid of that Balor is a really cool thing, although Dismissal's DC monkey-magic is kind of harsh against high HD critters. Having it work on Elder Elementals is reasonable as well, but in many campaigns, this won't be an everyday thing either. Best used probably when you start traveling the planes, as an emergency exit vehicle. 5. Other themes: Alarm is the bomb. Protection from Energy and Resist Energy are much appreciated. Resistance and Shield are wonderful, but only a good start on things. Scrying protections are very nice as well, and Imprisonment is just too cool, if you can get close enough to touch something worth using it on. Break Enchantment and Remove Curse are great as well, but only because they poked all sorts of holes in Dispel Magic. Mind Blank is awesome too, but did we have to wait until 8th level for help against those silly Enchanters? 6. What it doesn't do: The basic description of Abjuration was that it is protective Magic. Where are armor class boosting spells? Transmutation or Clerical. Even a little Divination, but insight bonuses are hard to argue with. Where is spell resistance? Clerical only. Where are saving throw bonuses? Mostly in the enchantment school really. Few and far between in the school of Protection. Ever try looking for Abjuration spells in non-PHB supplements? Those that do manage to get stacked in between the pages and pages of evocations are mostly clerical. The Draconomicon is actually better here than most, but far too many of those spells protect only from dragons. (Appreciated, yes, but not necessarily what we're always looking for.) Maybe I'm just whining, and Clerics are supposed to be more defensive casters than Wizards are. I understand that. When I chose Abjuration as a specialty school, however, I was hoping to protect the rest of the party from whatever was coming our way, and I'm finding my ability to do that...not quite what I hoped. You can only cast so many Magic Circles anyway, and holding your action to Dispel Magic a full attack is less than useful. Realize too that what I didn't review extensively is how much easier a Cleric does most of the things an Abjurer can do. Abjurers were supposed to be playable, right? I didn't go with I-bomb-everything-in-sight-Evocation...give me a little help here. Anyway, if I'm missing something big, or if you guys know of any worthwhile spells that aren't in third-party land, let me know. If you want to discuss anything else about Abjuration too, by all means. Most of this school is very poorly understood. Note: I didn't actually pick Evocation as a prohibited school. I have Conjuration and Illusion there. I nitpick at Evocation mostly because it needs to be nitpicked at.
TWG_Prometheus 02-27-04, 01:44 PM	A quick edit. One of my complaints about Clerical Abjurers was unfounded. They don't actually get too many abjuration spells at an earlier level than wizards do. Mostly Banishment stuff. I did, however, make a list of PHB abjuration spells they get that abjurers do *not* get at all. I omitted anything that was strongly alignment based, as that really is more of a cleric's field. Antilife Shell, Entropic Shield, Freedom of Movement, Glyph of Warding, Greater Glyph of Warding, Hide from Undead, Remove Fear, Repel Vermin, Sanctuary, Shield of Faith, Shield Other, Spell Immunity, Greater Spell Immunity, Spell Resistance. Some of those also aren't a problem for flavor reasons (Shield of Faith) or just because it would be an exceptionally bad idea. (Antilife Shell, Shield Other) Some others I also wouldn't whine too much about, such as the Glyphs and Repel Vermin. Sanctuary is reasonable for a wizard, though, and would be oh-so-helpful, as would a Shield of Faith equivalent, even at much higher level. (No deflection bonus to AC spells for a wizard? Come on.) The most egregious hole is the Spell Immunity and Spell Resistance spells, which I see as being right along a wizard's line of work. Entropic Shield also seems a lot more wizardly than clerical, and would be a great replacement for the 10/magic = 10/everything Protection from Arrows spell. (Yes I'm being too hard on Protection from Arrows, but 10/magic that discharges after a damage limit? That's great against kolbold children with small rocks.)
Beamup 02-27-04, 01:54 PM	You make a pretty reasonable case, but it's unfortunately true that abjuration is pretty split. Clerics are 'supposed' to be the defensive casters and arcane casters are 'supposed' to be the offensive. But boosting clerical offensive power didn't seem to make anyone at WotC think, 'hey, they're doing an arcane caster's job now, maybe we should let arcanes do abjuration more.' So I basically agree with you, but I can see how it happened. Hopefully the Cleric and the rest of magic will continue evolving into something better.
Hot Rod 02-27-04, 05:31 PM	Originally posted by Beamup Hopefully the Cleric and the rest of magic will continue evolving into something better. Then we can all roll up clerics and play Clerics of the Coast's new game :D (Couldn't resist :P )
Luminous Crayon 02-27-04, 05:50 PM	Originally posted by TWG_Prometheus I'm still noticing a problem, though. This is an NPC thing. Explosive Runes for a PC? Yeah, maybe I'll find a use for it, but not at 3rd level, when I'm going to be memorizing Protection from Energy/Magic Circle vs. Evil/Dispel Magic not to mention wanting to get to Haste, Fly, Heroism, and Displacement. Point, certainly. Spells like this aren't going to be prepared and cast every day, and won't come into effect very often. You'll use Explosive Runes most often on slow days, when you're holed up somewhere inbetween making items and researching spells, slumming around town not expecting trouble. Since the duration is permanent, you can Explosive Runes trap whatever you like-- backpacks, fake spellbooks, maps, whatever you like-- and not worry about preparing the spell again until you need another trap. A lot of these sorts of abjurations are "NPC spells" because they focus on protecting an item or location. Guards and Wards is the same. Adventuring players don't need them, but stationary characters with something to protect will. Depending on the style of game, they can be really useful. If you're in a city-based game with a base of operations, defending a castle against a siege, or trying to foil certain kinds of pursuit, they can be very, very useful. Otherwise, not so useful.
TWG_Prometheus 02-27-04, 07:11 PM	Explosive Runes does get by some of the general problems, as it does make for a nice slow-day spell, like you pointed out. Despite its uselessness in the average case, I'm still a big fan of Guards and Wards for PCs...at least for wizards. Another good slow day, I'm-doing-my-research-don't bother-me spell, there, and also a good way to muck up pursuers in their own fortress if you need to make a quick exit, or just want to mess with their heads. You don't actually have to go inside the castle. Come on, you know you want to do it... It's not like there's a material component cost. More to the point, does anyone have at least a partial fix for this? Any fairly mainstream spells from WotC manuals in Abjuration that can plug some of the gaps?
PhaedrusXY 02-27-04, 08:17 PM	Guards and Wards can be used to great effect Offensively as well. Walk into the BBEG's stronghold and cast it. It will wreak havoc on his defenses as they try to mobilize to repel you. An NPC lich did this to our party once, in a library. Then he set fire to the building. It was ugly... Edit: Good god... I just noticed that the casting time is 30 mins. Our DM really screws up sometimes...
Bloodtide_the_Red 02-28-04, 12:24 AM	One of the tricky things about any speciatly wizard is running out of spells. You realy need to branch out from just the PH. Magic of Fareun gives you Ironguts(1), Reverse Arrows(3), the Wall of (Each Alignments) (4), Lesser Ironguard(5), Anti-magic Aura(7) and Greater Ironguard(7). Tome and Blood gives you Gaze Screen(2), Filter(2), and the Otiluke's Dispeling Screens. Book of Eldritch Might has Theif Ward(2) and Static Veil(2). Manual of the Planes has Improved Alarm(3) and Zone of Respite(4). Savage species has Dissonant chant(2), Major Resistance(2) and Superior Resistance(5) Unapproachable East has Iiyykur's Mantle(4)...look this one up. Theas boards have some scattered around too. BT
Boondoggle 02-28-04, 01:15 AM	You realy need to branch out from just the PH. Which is further argument that wizards need more core abjuration spells. For that 4th level slot... widened dispel magic?
Luminous Crayon 02-28-04, 01:30 AM	Originally posted by Boondoggle For that 4th level slot... widened dispel magic? Actually, Silent Dispel Magic is not a bad choice at all, when those pesky clerics and bards try to neuter you with Silence spells.
TWG_Prometheus 02-28-04, 03:09 AM	Yes but while metamagic spells can help you fill your spells per day, it doesn't help you when you select new spells upon leveling. According to the PHB, you can select two new wizard spells each time you level, but if you are a specialist mage, one of those must be from your specialist school. Now, there's plenty of spells to choose *something* but even outside of min/maxxing, choosing a spell you'll never really use or think to actually go ahead and memorize is just plain silly. Boondoggle's comment is well taken. The Sor/Wiz list just needs more consistently usable core abjurations. In the meantime, however, the Draconomicon does do a good job here. Dragon-ish spells maybe, but that's good too. 4th - Antidragon Aura 5th - Contingent Energy Resistance (M) 6th - Aura of Evasion (M) 7th - Antimagic Ray (M), Energy Immunity, Hide from Dragons with (M) for significant material component. Some of those are less than inspiring, but Antidragon Aura is very powerful, if only vs dragons and Energy Immunity is a good thing. For those without the book, Aura of Evasion only works vs breath weapons. Not as cool as it should have been.
Gyrofthewastes 02-28-04, 05:12 AM	Abjuration has always seemed like one of those back-loaded schools to me. There does indeed to be a slow point around spell levels 4 and 5. There are a few things that really bother me: Contingency: Why on earth is this an Evocation spell rather than Abjuration/Universal? Since only personally-targetted spells work, it would seem to be contrary to the focus of most other evocations. Symbol spells: Most of these, in essence, create magical traps...one of the supposed fortes of abjuration. And of course, not a single one is Abjuration. Then again, balance-wise, Dispel Magic IS pretty potent. But what I'd personally like to see for Arcane Casters is some equivalent of the Glyph of Warding spell glyph effect. Also note: Although you CAN technically put Explosive Runes on all sorts of things, to trigger they must actually be read. This actually makes Fire Trap or Arcane Lock a bit more useful IMO.
jaxpur 02-28-04, 07:57 PM	As a DM, I would have no qualms about allowing a specialist (but not a generalist) wizard to take spells from other class lists. I did this for a divination specialist, where there is a similar split between arcane and divine spells as you indicate for the abjuration school. There may well be some spells that would require too much of a stretch to justify the transition as you say, but it seems to me in the spirit of specialization to allow the other stuff.
def_mornahan 04-01-04, 11:44 PM	Originally posted by Gyrofthewastes Then again, balance-wise, Dispel Magic IS pretty potent. I would say necessary rather than potent. Even in 2nd ed., when it was stronger, it was a frustrating spell, and now it's a significant bit more wretched. It phases itself out of usefulness, just like sleep, with that silly level cap. You need it to get through many dungeons... but watch the fighter's eyes glaze over as your wizard rolls 5 after 2 after 7 after 11 (almost!) after 3 after...burning through all his 3rd level spells and all the scrolls they bought back in town, trying to break down whatever spell is in the way of the party's progress. It's happened to me, lad. Originally posted by Gyrofthewastes Also note: Although you CAN technically put Explosive Runes on all sorts of things, to trigger they must actually be read. This actually makes Fire Trap or Arcane Lock a bit more useful IMO. That is definitely not enough to raise Fire Trap up to the level of "actual spell". For the love of Gawd Almighty, it does 1d4+L damage. The fact that Explosive Runes is useless against barbarians is not quite so severe a handicap as the fact that Fire Trap does egregiously little damage!
wdarkk 04-01-04, 11:52 PM	I'd imagine a 5th level series of spells along the lines of the following would be balanced: Dispel Enchantment Abjuration Level: Sor/Wiz 5 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target or Targets: You and an enchantment spell on a touched creature or object Duration: 1 round/level or until discharged, whichever comes first Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: None Shimmering energy surrounds you. With a touch you can automatically dispel any one enchantment spell. Exceptions: Spells that can’t be dispelled by dispel magic also can’t be dispelled by dispel evil. Spells with an XP cost cannot be dispelled by this spell. The touch discharges and ends the spell. And so on for the other schools. That might beef up Abjuration a little.
Sancus 04-02-04, 12:18 AM	Which is further argument that wizards need more core abjuration spells. The core spell list for wizards just plain sucks, for many reasons. There are a lot of spells which are just _there_ at a certain spell level, and yet are never logically extended to other spell levels. For example, Mage Armor and Shield. What the heck? These are the only two spells in the PHB which grant armor bonuses and shield bonuses to mages. Yet it makes sense that higher level mages would need and want more AC-boosting defensive spells than these. Spell Turning is also an obvious 'lone' spell. Why is it that the base concept - blocking X number of spell levels, is restricted to a 7th level spell only, that also happens to deflect the spells back at an enemy? Why are there no versions at different spell levels that merely block spells, and don't deflect them, and versions at higher spell levels that deflect more spell levels worth?? Honestly, if someone told me that I had only the core spells to pick from, I wouldn't want to play an arcane magic user in their campaign.
wdarkk 04-02-04, 12:20 AM	Uh, there are spells like Spell Turning at different levels. The globes of invulnerability, for example.
Sancus 04-02-04, 12:31 AM	Globes of Invulnerability don't use even vaguely similar mechanics to Spell Turning, they're not the same thing. Something like this: Spellshield Abjuration Level: Sor/Wiz 6 Components: V, S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: Until expended or 10 min./level As Spell Turning, except targeted spells are merely blocked, not reflected against the original caster. A Spellshield does not create a resonating field under any circumstances. Arcane Material Component: A small silver mirror.
wdarkk 04-02-04, 01:06 AM	I'd beg to differ on being totally unrelated, they both block spells in a manner based on the level of the blocked spell. There's also Absorption or something similar in Tome and Blood, which allows you to burn captured spell levels to cast spells. That said, I'd have no objections to different or more powerful abjuration barriers. I'd suggest a 9th level one that also protects you from area spells, and possibly some lower-level ones that block far fewer spells. Perhaps even a first level one that only blocks 1d2 spell levels?
smrtgmp 04-02-04, 07:40 AM	I think one of the biggest problems is the fact that spells cant belong to more than one school anymore. There are several spells that just dont quite fit into only one school, and the fact that they made that change is ludicrous, IMO. I realize they were probably just trying to simplify and streamline things, but come on! It just doesnt make sense. TWG: I agree with you on nearly every point, with one glaring exception. Wall of Force has always been Evocation (or Invocation/Evocation) because it is a construct of pure magical energy, which is the domain of evocation. Unfortunately, Abjuration has always been a neglected school. I'm looking at my old 2nd ed PHB and there are only 23 abjuration spells, compared to the 38 (39 if you count cantrips, which I didnt, for comparison purposes) in 3.5. I played an Abjurer back in 2nd ed and I was forced to spend a lot of time and money researching my own spells. If you have a DM who is flexable and promotes creativity, that may be the best way to go. That way you can create spells to assist you in situations that you know you'll be facing (based on the campaign you're in).
Heron_Marked_Blade 04-02-04, 09:42 AM	You might consider researching your own higher-level abjuration spells to take as one of your "2 per level" spells. It makes sense that if there are no more Abjuration spells available at that spell level (core books), your wizard might come up with abjuration spells. He's specialized in the school, for crying out loud. I have no problem with selecting a new (researched) spell as one of the two spells you gain upon leveling; isn't that how you acquired those two spells, whether they're core spells or not? Be creative. My Abjurer has a bunch of researched Abjuration spells that: increase AC, grant DR, protect from spells, etc. As long as you communicate with your DM, there shouldn't be a problem (as long as your spells are balanced, of course). Honestly, I don't think the solution is to make the Wizard/Cleric spell lists the same. The solution isn't even for WotC to come out with more core spells. The solution is for a specialist wizard to create new spells in his specialty school. Creating spells is fun. :)
def_mornahan 04-02-04, 10:37 AM	Originally posted by Heron_Marked_Blade Creating spells is fun. :) That's the spirit!
Merlion 04-02-04, 06:31 PM	I agree very strongly on all points, especialy about certain of the spells that clerics have that wizards, especialy abjuration specialists, should have too. Spell Resistance and the Spell Immunity line being especialy so. I know that clerics are "supposed" to be the better defense casters, but as has been stated, clerics have been getting more and more offensive powers, but you dont see wizards getting a defensive boost. Your also right that really and truly the Wiz/Sor list has comparatively few basic personal or group defense spells, in the Abjuration school or otherwise. You've got Shield and Mage Armor, and the Magic Circle spells...and thats about it. Especialy as far as physical defenses as aposed to magical ones...you do have the Globes of Invulnerability, but I cant feature why wizards dont get Spell Resistance. And their are almost no other spells out there for mages to up AC, or grant DR or anything like that. I dont think theres really much hope for this being addressed in core any time soon especialy since WoTC seems to be going crazier with each passing day, so I would say there are 3 main things you can do. Get your DM to allow at least an Abjuration specialist access to some of those spells, like Spell Resistance, that they should have anyway. Get your DM to let you create some new spells and/or search on here for those written by others, and allow them in the campaign. Possibly without even having to go through research. I myself have a whole passle of defense spells, most of them abjurations, that I'd be glad to send you. Keep searching non core sourcebooks. The smaller and further out the company, the less they will be bound by the WOTC rut.
Sunrider 04-02-04, 07:46 PM	In the campaigns I run, I use some spells converted from second-edition splatbooks as well as D&D-based CRPGs. Having a wide range of defensive spells (e.g. Spell Trap, Protection from specific elements/magical damage/whatever else, Greater Stoneskin, Mantle, etc.) together with a range of offensive spells to counter these (e.g. Warding Whip, Spellstrike, Breach, Ruby Ray, Lower Resistance) makes combat much more exciting than an artillery duel.
Look Within My Mind 04-02-04, 09:14 PM	Hey Sunrider, I wondering if you wqould like to post your converted spells for us if you dont mind. Also, I agree with most of the things said. Abjurer's are serverly weakened. As far as my friends go, to them, a cleric is a specialist abjurer... Look Within