Abjuration spells as free actions. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Abjuration spells as free actions. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
OmiKapSi
04-15-04, 05:10 AM I was thinking about the effects of changing the casting times of all the spells that have the abjuration school and casting time 1 standard action to 1 free action.

Let's see who thinks that this is broken and why.

I know this sounds like troll bait, but I'm serious about this, and it isn't intended to be. I'd really appreciate it it anyone who thinks it is going to be problematical, at least look over the abjuration list of spells.
Sisyfos
04-15-04, 06:00 AM If you want to do such a change then you should at least change it to "swift" action instead of free action. The only difference is that a spellcaster can do one swift action/round, but any number of free actions. I can see a problem with spellcaster seeing an opponent and casting 6 dispel magics and repulsions, etc in the first round. I can see much less problesm with the spellcaster casting one of those spells in the round in addition to his normal spell.

Sisyfos
smrtgmp
04-15-04, 06:12 AM I would possibly limit it to personal effect spells only. I dont think you should be able to use dispell magic as a free action, but other than that, i dont think it would be unbalancing in the least, especially since everyone could do it.
Sisyfos' recomendation to make it a swift action is a good one. You could also make it an immediate action (like a swift action except it doesnt have to be used on your turn). That way you could cast a spell in response to anothers actions.
dantedarkstar
04-15-04, 06:18 AM Hmm... I have one question: Why DO change it ? What's wrong with it now, that you want to change it ?

That's the "correct" question, not "why not ?", but "why yes ?".
And while it won't change spellcaster-spellcaster balance much, this will certainly put spellcasters even higher above nonspellcasting crowd that they are already.
Boondoggle
04-15-04, 06:34 AM Casting more than one spell per round w/o the use of quicken spell is game breaking, even if one of the spells is of the abjuration school (especially if it doesn't have to be done on your turn). Looking briefly over the spell list, I think that the shield, protection/magic circle from alignment, holy aura (et al), dispell magic, dismissal, imprisonment, disjunction, dimensional anchor/lock, sanctuary and prismatic sphere/wall spells break this ability quite easily.
[GSV] Kirstar
04-15-04, 10:32 AM it would be a useful modification in a high magic / mages rules the world type game.

but a little unbalencing in a standard campaign.
dantedarkstar
04-15-04, 11:49 AM I would say quite more than just a bit.

Getting automatic quicken spell for free for all Abjurations (if original poster DID mean they count as quickened for limits/round) is kind of powerful. Very powerful.

This would be "balanced" not in "high magic/mages rule world" game, but in "mages rule the game" game. It would just mean that one class type (spellcaster) is simply better than other (nonspellcasters). It is already arguable case, but such thing would certainly make it undisputely true.
Luminous Crayon
04-15-04, 11:56 AM I guess this is meant to represent the idea of a spellcaster hastily throwing up a magical defense in the nick of time, to deflect an incoming attack?

I like the idea, but it needs some changes. I'd suggest that you make this ability a feat, rather than something all spellcasters can do for free. Make Spell Focus (Abjuration) a prerequisite, possibly. It applies only to personal-range Abjuration spells, which you can use at any time as a free action, even if it's not your turn (like Feather Fall).

However, the effect has limits. You can only do so a limited number of times per day (one? three?) perhaps, or maybe the duration of the Abjuration spell is reduced to one round: just long enough to stop that incoming attack, no longer. Maybe using a spell in this way consumes your spellcasting for the next turn. Just a few thoughts to spark your thinking.
Beamup
04-15-04, 12:06 PM No. Absolutely not. It is totally broken.
Kyuketsukiouji
04-15-04, 12:14 PM Actually, I might allow this under the following form:

Reactive Defence
Prerequisites: Quicken Spell, Spellcraft 15 ranks, Spell Focus(Abjuration), Greater Spell Focus(Abjuration), ability to cast 6th-level arcane or divine spells.
Benefit: The character may cast all 0-, 1st-, 2nd-, and 3rd-level abjuration spells as quickened spells without using higher-level spell slots. The normal limit to the number of quickened spells a character may cast per round applies. Spells with a casting time of more than 1 full round can’t be quickened.
Special: A character can gain this feat multiple times. Each time a character takes the feat, the abjuration spells of his or her next three lowest spell levels can now be quickened with no adjustment to their spell slots. This feat doesn’t increase the casting time for those spells that normally become full-round actions when cast in metamagic form.

It would be powerful, yes, but you would have to devote a lot of feats to it to get it going.

Now, if it was meant to allow you to cast spells out of turn, that would be a different story. But as it is, you can ready an attack and use this to put up a defence, or something.
OmiKapSi
04-15-04, 03:13 PM (From the SRD)

"A spell with a casting time of 1 free action doesn’t count against your normal limit of one spell per round. However, you may cast such a spell only once per round. Casting a spell with a casting time of 1 free action doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity."

I think I might make an exception for the AoO, I think that casting any spell, regardless of speed, would lower ones defenses.

Why yes?
It's long and complicated, so I figured that I'd just throw out the base line and see what sort of responses it got.
UZI
04-15-04, 04:29 PM Tortoise Protection

Requirements: "Sudden Quicken" (from MHB, which sorcerers can take) and "Spell Focus: Abjuration".

Benefit: Gives the capacity to cast as a sudden spell any prepared (or known, for spontaneous casters), spell of the abjuration school where the target is personal, or touch and targeted on the caster. This feat can be used a number of times per day equal to your spell casting ability modifier.

Tortoise Protection suddenly cast spells do not take up a slot of a higher level.
[GSV] Kirstar
04-16-04, 03:16 AM make that feat you have listed require quicken spell feat.

or....
.
Allow them to swap their action to cast a defensive abjuration.
smrtgmp
04-16-04, 03:19 AM I like Kyuketsukiouji's idea.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
OmiKapSi 04-15-04, 05:10 AM	I was thinking about the effects of changing the casting times of all the spells that have the abjuration school and casting time 1 standard action to 1 free action. Let's see who thinks that this is broken and why. I know this sounds like troll bait, but I'm serious about this, and it isn't intended to be. I'd really appreciate it it anyone who thinks it is going to be problematical, at least look over the abjuration list of spells.
Sisyfos 04-15-04, 06:00 AM	If you want to do such a change then you should at least change it to "swift" action instead of free action. The only difference is that a spellcaster can do one swift action/round, but any number of free actions. I can see a problem with spellcaster seeing an opponent and casting 6 dispel magics and repulsions, etc in the first round. I can see much less problesm with the spellcaster casting one of those spells in the round in addition to his normal spell. Sisyfos
smrtgmp 04-15-04, 06:12 AM	I would possibly limit it to personal effect spells only. I dont think you should be able to use dispell magic as a free action, but other than that, i dont think it would be unbalancing in the least, especially since everyone could do it. Sisyfos' recomendation to make it a swift action is a good one. You could also make it an immediate action (like a swift action except it doesnt have to be used on your turn). That way you could cast a spell in response to anothers actions.
dantedarkstar 04-15-04, 06:18 AM	Hmm... I have one question: Why DO change it ? What's wrong with it now, that you want to change it ? That's the "correct" question, not "why not ?", but "why yes ?". And while it won't change spellcaster-spellcaster balance much, this will certainly put spellcasters even higher above nonspellcasting crowd that they are already.
Boondoggle 04-15-04, 06:34 AM	Casting more than one spell per round w/o the use of quicken spell is game breaking, even if one of the spells is of the abjuration school (especially if it doesn't have to be done on your turn). Looking briefly over the spell list, I think that the shield, protection/magic circle from alignment, holy aura (et al), dispell magic, dismissal, imprisonment, disjunction, dimensional anchor/lock, sanctuary and prismatic sphere/wall spells break this ability quite easily.
[GSV] Kirstar 04-15-04, 10:32 AM	it would be a useful modification in a high magic / mages rules the world type game. but a little unbalencing in a standard campaign.
dantedarkstar 04-15-04, 11:49 AM	I would say quite more than just a bit. Getting automatic quicken spell for free for all Abjurations (if original poster DID mean they count as quickened for limits/round) is kind of powerful. Very powerful. This would be "balanced" not in "high magic/mages rule world" game, but in "mages rule the game" game. It would just mean that one class type (spellcaster) is simply better than other (nonspellcasters). It is already arguable case, but such thing would certainly make it undisputely true.
Luminous Crayon 04-15-04, 11:56 AM	I guess this is meant to represent the idea of a spellcaster hastily throwing up a magical defense in the nick of time, to deflect an incoming attack? I like the idea, but it needs some changes. I'd suggest that you make this ability a feat, rather than something all spellcasters can do for free. Make Spell Focus (Abjuration) a prerequisite, possibly. It applies only to personal-range Abjuration spells, which you can use at any time as a free action, even if it's not your turn (like Feather Fall). However, the effect has limits. You can only do so a limited number of times per day (one? three?) perhaps, or maybe the duration of the Abjuration spell is reduced to one round: just long enough to stop that incoming attack, no longer. Maybe using a spell in this way consumes your spellcasting for the next turn. Just a few thoughts to spark your thinking.
Beamup 04-15-04, 12:06 PM	No. Absolutely not. It is totally broken.
Kyuketsukiouji 04-15-04, 12:14 PM	Actually, I might allow this under the following form: Reactive Defence Prerequisites: Quicken Spell, Spellcraft 15 ranks, Spell Focus(Abjuration), Greater Spell Focus(Abjuration), ability to cast 6th-level arcane or divine spells. Benefit: The character may cast all 0-, 1st-, 2nd-, and 3rd-level abjuration spells as quickened spells without using higher-level spell slots. The normal limit to the number of quickened spells a character may cast per round applies. Spells with a casting time of more than 1 full round can’t be quickened. Special: A character can gain this feat multiple times. Each time a character takes the feat, the abjuration spells of his or her next three lowest spell levels can now be quickened with no adjustment to their spell slots. This feat doesn’t increase the casting time for those spells that normally become full-round actions when cast in metamagic form. It would be powerful, yes, but you would have to devote a lot of feats to it to get it going. Now, if it was meant to allow you to cast spells out of turn, that would be a different story. But as it is, you can ready an attack and use this to put up a defence, or something.
OmiKapSi 04-15-04, 03:13 PM	(From the SRD) "A spell with a casting time of 1 free action doesn’t count against your normal limit of one spell per round. However, you may cast such a spell only once per round. Casting a spell with a casting time of 1 free action doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity." I think I might make an exception for the AoO, I think that casting any spell, regardless of speed, would lower ones defenses. Why yes? It's long and complicated, so I figured that I'd just throw out the base line and see what sort of responses it got.
UZI 04-15-04, 04:29 PM	Tortoise Protection Requirements: "Sudden Quicken" (from MHB, which sorcerers can take) and "Spell Focus: Abjuration". Benefit: Gives the capacity to cast as a sudden spell any prepared (or known, for spontaneous casters), spell of the abjuration school where the target is personal, or touch and targeted on the caster. This feat can be used a number of times per day equal to your spell casting ability modifier. Tortoise Protection suddenly cast spells do not take up a slot of a higher level.
[GSV] Kirstar 04-16-04, 03:16 AM	make that feat you have listed require quicken spell feat. or.... . Allow them to swap their action to cast a defensive abjuration.
smrtgmp 04-16-04, 03:19 AM	I like Kyuketsukiouji's idea.