About Girallon's Blessing? [Archive] - Wizards Community

About Girallon's Blessing? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jimmynids
02-23-08, 06:42 PM Girallon's Blessing gives you 2 extra arms and all 4(or more) of your arms grow claws. My question is what penalty applies to those arms?

Do the new set get their own BAB check making it 2 at max-4 and 2 at max-8 during a full attack(assuming no two-weapon fighting). Or is it once you make 1 attack, the other 3 are considered offhand giving them a -5.

The way I read it is as follows(assume no Two-Weapon Fighting):

Primary Arms
1st: -2
2nd: -6
Secondary Arms
3rd: -6
4th: -6

That is the first 2 attacks with your primary arms and 2 with your secondary arms at full BAB -2/-6/-6/-6

Then any further attacks from higher BAB would be added on from primary arm to make: -2/-6/-6/-6/-7*/-12*/-17*
*Assumes you have a high enough BAB to add this attack.

I am lookin for a second opinion on the spells effects and whether or not my math was correct on this, thanks guys
LSMFT
02-23-08, 07:35 PM The spell reads:
"The creature gains four claw attacks, each using its base attack bonus plus its STR modifier for attack rolls."

That's it. BAB +Str mod for all four attacks. No further calculations are necessary.

You get no other, iterative attacks. Your hands turn into claws, so you can't use normal weapons. If you had other natural attacks, not based on hands, like a gore or something, I would say they would be treated as secondary, with the appropriate penalty to hit.
Jimmynids
02-23-08, 10:12 PM Ok you are right, the part where it says your old arms are primary and new are secondary through me off.

Also, I just thought of something else... would you get a bonus to grapple checks for having more than 2 arms, or possibly 2 attempts for having 2 sets of arms to use?

Another question arises as well, would you still gain an extra attack from Haste type effects?

Final question - Would you be able to cast Magic Weapon or Greater Magic Weapon on your hands(individually of course), or will the spell not affect them.
Donai
02-24-08, 12:10 PM The spell says your arms (new and old) "ends in a clawed hand with
fingers and an opposable thumb." and later mentions not using normal weapons and claw attacks in same round, not that you can't use normal weapons at all. The picture on the previous page implies one could use a shield and drink a potion while holding an axe in two hands. I've never asked a DM to rule on it; but if I thought I could attack with a sword in two hands, while protecting myself with a heavy shield and leaving a hand open to cast (say a swift or immediate) I'd probably use the spell!! It doesn't get that in depth so I doubt my DM would go for it (and ignore the picture).

For the natural attacks (not using traditional weapons), it looks like you could also use a single Greater Magic Fang and get all the attacks enhanced to +1.
Suspect_Unusual
02-24-08, 12:39 PM Assuming you're a humanoid with the normal allotment of limbs:

You gain natural attacks, two of which are primary (your old hands) and two of which are secondary (the new ones that sprout out). If you can only make a single attack (for an AoO or as a standard action, for example) when you aren't wielding a weapon, you only make a SINGLE claw attack as a primary attack.

As per the general rules, your attack bonus for your primary hands is your BAB + your Strength modifier + your size modifier + any magic or feat bonuses. If you have Weapon Finesse, you can instead use your Dexterity modifier, as all natural attacks are light weapons. With primary natural attacks, you deal the base damage, 1d4 (which one should probably infer to be the MEDIUM size claw damage, and adjust the damage for different size categories) + your full Strength modifier + any magic or feat bonuses.

Your secondary attacks have the primary weapon's attack bonus -5, and add half your Strength modifier instead of the full Strength modifier.

Due to the wording of the spell, you can't use a normal weapon and claw attacks in the same round - as stated before, however, you CAN still wield weapons/shields/items in any of your hands, and nothing prevents or hinders spellcasting with any one of your hands.

Now, to answer individual questions:

1. No, extra arms do not explicitly help grapples in any way. It would, however, be a painful process to grapple a creature with Girallon's Blessing - one can attack while grappled with natural weapons by taking a -4 penalty to attack, and almost by definition grappling a foe allows them to get a full attack, and thus all their claw attacks, off.

2. Haste will not grant an extra attack, since "a hasted creature may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding", and a creature full-attacking with claws isn't holding any weapons.

3. Magic Weapon and Greater Magic Weapon wouldn't affect your claw attacks, since it explicitly states that "you can’t cast this spell on a natural weapon." Instead, you must use Magic Fang or Greater Magic Fang.

It's questionable whether or not you can cast multiple [Greater] Magic Fangs on a creature - the target isn't a natural weapon, it's a living creature, and thus stacking rules would apply normally, that is, only the most recent casting would apply. Unless I'm reading the stacking rules wrong.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jimmynids 02-23-08, 06:42 PM	Girallon's Blessing gives you 2 extra arms and all 4(or more) of your arms grow claws. My question is what penalty applies to those arms? Do the new set get their own BAB check making it 2 at max-4 and 2 at max-8 during a full attack(assuming no two-weapon fighting). Or is it once you make 1 attack, the other 3 are considered offhand giving them a -5. The way I read it is as follows(assume no Two-Weapon Fighting): Primary Arms 1st: -2 2nd: -6 Secondary Arms 3rd: -6 4th: -6 That is the first 2 attacks with your primary arms and 2 with your secondary arms at full BAB -2/-6/-6/-6 Then any further attacks from higher BAB would be added on from primary arm to make: -2/-6/-6/-6/-7/-12/-17* *Assumes you have a high enough BAB to add this attack. I am lookin for a second opinion on the spells effects and whether or not my math was correct on this, thanks guys
LSMFT 02-23-08, 07:35 PM	The spell reads: "The creature gains four claw attacks, each using its base attack bonus plus its STR modifier for attack rolls." That's it. BAB +Str mod for all four attacks. No further calculations are necessary. You get no other, iterative attacks. Your hands turn into claws, so you can't use normal weapons. If you had other natural attacks, not based on hands, like a gore or something, I would say they would be treated as secondary, with the appropriate penalty to hit.
Jimmynids 02-23-08, 10:12 PM	Ok you are right, the part where it says your old arms are primary and new are secondary through me off. Also, I just thought of something else... would you get a bonus to grapple checks for having more than 2 arms, or possibly 2 attempts for having 2 sets of arms to use? Another question arises as well, would you still gain an extra attack from Haste type effects? Final question - Would you be able to cast Magic Weapon or Greater Magic Weapon on your hands(individually of course), or will the spell not affect them.
Donai 02-24-08, 12:10 PM	The spell says your arms (new and old) "ends in a clawed hand with fingers and an opposable thumb." and later mentions not using normal weapons and claw attacks in same round, not that you can't use normal weapons at all. The picture on the previous page implies one could use a shield and drink a potion while holding an axe in two hands. I've never asked a DM to rule on it; but if I thought I could attack with a sword in two hands, while protecting myself with a heavy shield and leaving a hand open to cast (say a swift or immediate) I'd probably use the spell!! It doesn't get that in depth so I doubt my DM would go for it (and ignore the picture). For the natural attacks (not using traditional weapons), it looks like you could also use a single Greater Magic Fang and get all the attacks enhanced to +1.
Suspect_Unusual 02-24-08, 12:39 PM	Assuming you're a humanoid with the normal allotment of limbs: You gain natural attacks, two of which are primary (your old hands) and two of which are secondary (the new ones that sprout out). If you can only make a single attack (for an AoO or as a standard action, for example) when you aren't wielding a weapon, you only make a SINGLE claw attack as a primary attack. As per the general rules, your attack bonus for your primary hands is your BAB + your Strength modifier + your size modifier + any magic or feat bonuses. If you have Weapon Finesse, you can instead use your Dexterity modifier, as all natural attacks are light weapons. With primary natural attacks, you deal the base damage, 1d4 (which one should probably infer to be the MEDIUM size claw damage, and adjust the damage for different size categories) + your full Strength modifier + any magic or feat bonuses. Your secondary attacks have the primary weapon's attack bonus -5, and add half your Strength modifier instead of the full Strength modifier. Due to the wording of the spell, you can't use a normal weapon and claw attacks in the same round - as stated before, however, you CAN still wield weapons/shields/items in any of your hands, and nothing prevents or hinders spellcasting with any one of your hands. Now, to answer individual questions: 1. No, extra arms do not explicitly help grapples in any way. It would, however, be a painful process to grapple a creature with Girallon's Blessing - one can attack while grappled with natural weapons by taking a -4 penalty to attack, and almost by definition grappling a foe allows them to get a full attack, and thus all their claw attacks, off. 2. Haste will not grant an extra attack, since "a hasted creature may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding", and a creature full-attacking with claws isn't holding any weapons. 3. Magic Weapon and Greater Magic Weapon wouldn't affect your claw attacks, since it explicitly states that "you can’t cast this spell on a natural weapon." Instead, you must use Magic Fang or Greater Magic Fang. It's questionable whether or not you can cast multiple [Greater] Magic Fangs on a creature - the target isn't a natural weapon, it's a living creature, and thus stacking rules would apply normally, that is, only the most recent casting would apply. Unless I'm reading the stacking rules wrong.