Post/Author/DateTime	Post
someonelse812 01-06-07, 01:40 AM	So what’s the deal with permanency? Can any spell be made permanent or just the ones they list in the description? If other spells can be permanent how do you go about making them so? How do I get permanent mage armor for example?
Animae_Draconum 01-06-07, 01:57 AM	Why would you need permanent Mage Armor... Thisledown-padded Mithral Breastplate +1 of Twilight Mithral: [DMG] +2 max dex; -3 armor check penalty; -10% arcane spell failure. Twilight: cost +1; -10% arcane spell failure. Thisledown padding: [RotW] a few gp; +1 armor check penalty; -5% arcane spell failure. For a grand total of... AC +6; Max Dex +5; Armor Check Penalty -0; Arcane Spell Failure 0% or the equivalent of permanent Greater Mage Armor
Animae_Draconum 01-06-07, 01:59 AM	But for the real answer Permanency applies only to the spells that specifically state can be made permanent. To make any spell permanent you need to use an epic spell. Give me 10 minutes and ill post the seeds and spellcraft DC\ A_D
Animae_Draconum 01-06-07, 03:08 AM	You need the Transmutation Seed(DC=21), Permanent Duration(x5) This Yields a 105 Spellcraft DC. Increase the casting time to 11 minutes(-20). Recieve 10d6 Backlash Damage(-10). Final Spellcraft DC: 75 Development Time: 14 Days Gold to Develop: 675,000 XP Cost to Develop: 27,000 The Spellcraft DC is 75 to cast it but can be met relatively easily as follows Spellcraft Modifiers 24 from ranks in spellcraft 51 competency bonus from custom magic item costing 260100 gp Or... Use the Ritual Method, which involves no backlash damage or increased casting time(spell casts in 1 minute rather than 11). You need Leadership with a Cohort and followers who all belong to a casting class. 24 ranks in spellcraft 17 contributed from cohort (9th level spell) 20 contributed from 5th/6th level followers (3rd level spells) 33 contributed from 3rd/4th level followers (2nd level spells) 11 contributed from 11 of your 2nd level followers (1st level spells) If you add 24 other 1st level followers the spellcraft DC becomes 0, the spell is free to develop, takes no time, and no xp, you just have an effective free universal permanency.
someonelse812 01-06-07, 04:37 AM	interesting I am not experienced with epic spell casting and I probably won't be for a long time.
Penchant_Conjurer 01-06-07, 05:52 AM	You are the DM. The listed spells are judged safe and recommended by WoC, but you can adjudicate anything. The limiter is the XP you spend. If someone wants to spend 10000 xp to make a high level spell permanent, then so be it. Just look at the examples and see what those cost. Then figure what the higher ones would be worth. The safer choices are the ones that last 1 min/level or longer. Those are meant to last a while to begin with. Alternatively, you can use the rules in the DMG for creating magic items to enchant people. A person counts as a Masterwork object! For a cheaper cost indicate that the enchantment takes up an item slot, otherwise use the no item slot multiplier. This has the added advantage of not being vulnerable to dispel magic.
DracoPhoenix 01-06-07, 09:36 AM	So what’s the deal with permanency? Can any spell be made permanent or just the ones they list in the description? If other spells can be permanent how do you go about making them so? How do I get permanent mage armor for example? 1) It's a limited list, spells are either listed under the permanency spell entry or with the spell in question. As to why: Permanent Shapechange, 'nuff said. 2) To make a spell permanent, cast the spell to be affected on a legal target for the spell. Cast permanecy on the spell to be affected. Pay xp costs etc. 3) If it's on the list, you should be able to pemanency it, otherwise you'll probably need to persuade your DM to allow it. (Although you may want to discuss consequences if it turns out to be too powerful. XP refund should be enough) You may also want to consider house ruling that a permanent spell is only affected by a MDJ, and not just dispel. I never liked that "feature" - given the xp cost isn't cheap, but dispel is.