About wands [Archive] - Wizards Community

About wands [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lincht
10-07-07, 11:02 PM One of these days I was wondering:
Why doesn't any NPC have a 'Cure Moderate Wounds wand'?
Why do they always have potions?

According to the item creation rules I haven't found anything that could eventually oppose its creation... and looking for old references, the only one I've found is that in posession of Elminster, wich appears in the adventure of Shadowdale, in the 2nd Edition (the one that he uses to cure the adventurers while playing with the dog).

I would really appreciate some Wizards opinion here. Is it possible to create? Wouldn't it come into conflict and turn the game upside down? Would wizards be able to use it as they please even being a divine item?

Thank you for your attention.
Nirid
10-07-07, 11:05 PM Wands are spell completion items. That means you have to able the same class of spells and have the spell on your spell list. So a wizard can't use the wand nor can any non-spell casters. UMD bypasses this but it's not common skill.
Kouk
10-08-07, 01:10 AM Actually, Wands are Spell Trigger items.

Even so, this is what the entry for Spell Trigger is under creating magic items (according to SRD): Spell Trigger

Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

The Craft Wand item creation feat also limits what you can make to spells that your character 'knows', in the case of Wizards this would mean it would have to be in their books and that they could cast.

Wizards and Sorcerers cannot use any Spell Trigger or Spell Completion item to "cast" a Cure X spell. Bards however, can use Wands of Cure X (if it was created by another Bard) without problems. Otherwise, the only way for an Arcane class to use an item that stores a Divine spell (which is not on their lists) is to invest in the Use Magic Device skill.

If you can find other items with the effects you want, you could use them as long as they are not Spell Trigger or Spell Completion without needing a UMD check, such as a Potion, or the Healing Belt in the Magic Item Compendium.

Also, NPCs rarely have Wands, because it doesn't do them any good. They don't really have a "life" outside of the one or two encounters they have with the PCs, and as such they don't need to "spend their money" on more expensive items with more uses like Wands or Staves when a Potion or a couple of Scrolls would do.

EDIT: As for Elminster using a Cure Wand in 2nd edition... I don't know his exact stats in 2nd edition, but in 3rd edition he is a heavily multiclassed character, and actually has 3 levels of Cleric which would allow him to use any Spell Trigger or Spell Completion item that incorporates a Cleric spell.

EDIT 2: And to address any other Elminster-related rules confusion, he is a Fighter 1/Rogue 2/Cleric 3/Wizard 20/Archmage 5/Epic 4, according to page 7 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book. Yes, he is stronger than your PC will ever be, but no, he is not going to just swoop in and save the world out from under you, rendering your actions futile. He's about 1000 years old, and "retired".
Nirid
10-08-07, 02:10 AM Ahh I stand corrected. Thank you.
DracoPhoenix
10-08-07, 09:20 AM What about the feat from Comp Divine that allows you to pick a domain (deity's or if you have no deity, any one :)) and prepare those spells as arcane?

Healing domain anyone? :)
Merestil Haye
10-08-07, 10:34 AM What about the feat from Comp Divine that allows you to pick a domain (deity's or if you have no deity, any one :)) and prepare those spells as arcane?

Healing domain anyone? :)That would allow you to use any spell trigger item with a spell from the selected domain on it, because the spells in the domain become added to that specific creature's class spell list.

For spell completion items, the item needs to be an arcane item bearing the spell and you need a Wisdom score of at least 10 + the level of the spell on the domain list, as well as being subject to AoOs and ASF.
Khadmus
10-08-07, 08:26 PM One of these days I was wondering:
Why doesn't any NPC have a 'Cure Moderate Wounds wand'?
Why do they always have potions?
.

To put it rudely, stupidity.
To put it nicely, habit.
runestar
10-08-07, 10:24 PM Though with the advent of MIC, it makes more sense for an npc to have a healing belt than a potion of CMW. It cures the same amount of hp (4d8 compared to 3d8+5), and the PCs can loot it off his body after defeating him, rather than be left holding an empty vial.:P
Lincht
10-13-07, 09:33 PM Thank you very much people.
By the way, I liked the idea of a healing belt... hehehe

[]'s
ArcTan
10-13-07, 10:39 PM Also, NPCs rarely have Wands, because it doesn't do them any good. They don't really have a "life" outside of the one or two encounters they have with the PCs, and as such they don't need to "spend their money" on more expensive items with more uses like Wands or Staves when a Potion or a couple of Scrolls would do.

I think of that as a lame way to design an NPC, myself. It's metagaming.

It makes everything feel more real if the NPC's equipment accurately reflects what someone like him would have on him.

Of course, the *real* reason potions are more common than wands is that wands are bloody expensive, for someone who doesn't fight as often as your average looking-for-trouble PC party does.
ArcTan
10-13-07, 10:41 PM To put it rudely, stupidity.
To put it nicely, habit.

...Or because they don't have 4,500 GP to blow all at once on 50 charges of something they'll only need in an emergency.

Or maybe because they don't have cure moderate wounds on their spell list nor have UMD as a class skill, and therefore the wand would be both expensive and useless.
runestar
10-13-07, 10:55 PM I think of that as a lame way to design an NPC, myself. It's metagaming.

It makes everything feel more real if the NPC's equipment accurately reflects what someone like him would have on him.

You say metagaming, I say common sense.;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lincht 10-07-07, 11:02 PM	One of these days I was wondering: Why doesn't any NPC have a 'Cure Moderate Wounds wand'? Why do they always have potions? According to the item creation rules I haven't found anything that could eventually oppose its creation... and looking for old references, the only one I've found is that in posession of Elminster, wich appears in the adventure of Shadowdale, in the 2nd Edition (the one that he uses to cure the adventurers while playing with the dog). I would really appreciate some Wizards opinion here. Is it possible to create? Wouldn't it come into conflict and turn the game upside down? Would wizards be able to use it as they please even being a divine item? Thank you for your attention.
Nirid 10-07-07, 11:05 PM	Wands are spell completion items. That means you have to able the same class of spells and have the spell on your spell list. So a wizard can't use the wand nor can any non-spell casters. UMD bypasses this but it's not common skill.
Kouk 10-08-07, 01:10 AM	Actually, Wands are Spell Trigger items. Even so, this is what the entry for Spell Trigger is under creating magic items (according to SRD): Spell Trigger Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The Craft Wand item creation feat also limits what you can make to spells that your character 'knows', in the case of Wizards this would mean it would have to be in their books and that they could cast. Wizards and Sorcerers cannot use any Spell Trigger or Spell Completion item to "cast" a Cure X spell. Bards however, can use Wands of Cure X (if it was created by another Bard) without problems. Otherwise, the only way for an Arcane class to use an item that stores a Divine spell (which is not on their lists) is to invest in the Use Magic Device skill. If you can find other items with the effects you want, you could use them as long as they are not Spell Trigger or Spell Completion without needing a UMD check, such as a Potion, or the Healing Belt in the Magic Item Compendium. Also, NPCs rarely have Wands, because it doesn't do them any good. They don't really have a "life" outside of the one or two encounters they have with the PCs, and as such they don't need to "spend their money" on more expensive items with more uses like Wands or Staves when a Potion or a couple of Scrolls would do. EDIT: As for Elminster using a Cure Wand in 2nd edition... I don't know his exact stats in 2nd edition, but in 3rd edition he is a heavily multiclassed character, and actually has 3 levels of Cleric which would allow him to use any Spell Trigger or Spell Completion item that incorporates a Cleric spell. EDIT 2: And to address any other Elminster-related rules confusion, he is a Fighter 1/Rogue 2/Cleric 3/Wizard 20/Archmage 5/Epic 4, according to page 7 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book. Yes, he is stronger than your PC will ever be, but no, he is not going to just swoop in and save the world out from under you, rendering your actions futile. He's about 1000 years old, and "retired".
Nirid 10-08-07, 02:10 AM	Ahh I stand corrected. Thank you.
DracoPhoenix 10-08-07, 09:20 AM	What about the feat from Comp Divine that allows you to pick a domain (deity's or if you have no deity, any one :)) and prepare those spells as arcane? Healing domain anyone? :)
Merestil Haye 10-08-07, 10:34 AM	What about the feat from Comp Divine that allows you to pick a domain (deity's or if you have no deity, any one :)) and prepare those spells as arcane? Healing domain anyone? :)That would allow you to use any spell trigger item with a spell from the selected domain on it, because the spells in the domain become added to that specific creature's class spell list. For spell completion items, the item needs to be an arcane item bearing the spell and you need a Wisdom score of at least 10 + the level of the spell on the domain list, as well as being subject to AoOs and ASF.
Khadmus 10-08-07, 08:26 PM	One of these days I was wondering: Why doesn't any NPC have a 'Cure Moderate Wounds wand'? Why do they always have potions? . To put it rudely, stupidity. To put it nicely, habit.
runestar 10-08-07, 10:24 PM	Though with the advent of MIC, it makes more sense for an npc to have a healing belt than a potion of CMW. It cures the same amount of hp (4d8 compared to 3d8+5), and the PCs can loot it off his body after defeating him, rather than be left holding an empty vial.:P
Lincht 10-13-07, 09:33 PM	Thank you very much people. By the way, I liked the idea of a healing belt... hehehe []'s
ArcTan 10-13-07, 10:39 PM	Also, NPCs rarely have Wands, because it doesn't do them any good. They don't really have a "life" outside of the one or two encounters they have with the PCs, and as such they don't need to "spend their money" on more expensive items with more uses like Wands or Staves when a Potion or a couple of Scrolls would do. I think of that as a lame way to design an NPC, myself. It's metagaming. It makes everything feel more real if the NPC's equipment accurately reflects what someone like him would have on him. Of course, the real reason potions are more common than wands is that wands are bloody expensive, for someone who doesn't fight as often as your average looking-for-trouble PC party does.
ArcTan 10-13-07, 10:41 PM	To put it rudely, stupidity. To put it nicely, habit. ...Or because they don't have 4,500 GP to blow all at once on 50 charges of something they'll only need in an emergency. Or maybe because they don't have cure moderate wounds on their spell list nor have UMD as a class skill, and therefore the wand would be both expensive and useless.
runestar 10-13-07, 10:55 PM	I think of that as a lame way to design an NPC, myself. It's metagaming. It makes everything feel more real if the NPC's equipment accurately reflects what someone like him would have on him. You say metagaming, I say common sense.;)