Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vishnu 12-12-04, 07:40 AM	Hi, I've got this party member who plays a level 12 shade - a chaotic neutral wizard (necro) among a party of lawful characters. Whenever he gets ****** off at any of the members - he proceeds to Enervate them, then beats the crap out of them. I am a summoner - summon a creature and he automatically dispells it. What do I do? Vishnu.
Zorlag 12-12-04, 08:06 AM	Hi, I've got this party member who plays a level 12 shade - a chaotic neutral wizard (necro) among a party of lawful characters. Whenever he gets ****** off at any of the members - he proceeds to Enervate them, then beats the crap out of them. I am a summoner - summon a creature and he automatically dispells it. What do I do? Vishnu. Why don't you just gang up on him and slay that fool? Or if he is so much more powerful than you guys, you can't do anything... Party cleric can for example use Death Ward to counter Enervation and spells like Antimagic Field can stop him cold as well. Even evil parties don't tolerate this behaviour unless he's strongest character in there. In that case he has right (as might makes right) to abuse you any way he sees. Z.
Egres 12-12-04, 08:19 AM	Hi, I've got this party member who plays a level 12 shade - a chaotic neutral wizard (necro) among a party of lawful characters. Whenever he gets ****** off at any of the members - he proceeds to Enervate them, then beats the crap out of them. I am a summoner - summon a creature and he automatically dispells it. What do I do? Vishnu. How can he automatically dispel your summoned creatures?
tarkin 12-12-04, 10:38 AM	1) Have the cleric cast Death Ward on you before you go at it with him. 2) FORGET ABOUT USING SUMMONED CREATURES TO ATTACK. Summoned creatures suck as a front line attack. They always do for multiple reasons, Dispelling is just one of many of them. Summoned creeatures are good for: 1) Granting Sneak Attacks by flanking. 2) Taking targetted spells/attacks. 3) Dealing with wierd situations (Need a flying creature to attack, need an incorporeal creature to attack, need a creature immune to fire to attack, etc. etc.) 4) Setting off traps and other non-combat uses.
GRAOUH !!! 12-12-04, 10:39 AM	Find a way to summon, buy or create a construct to kill him ;)
Dr. Awkward 12-12-04, 11:56 AM	He sleeps, right? Sleep is the great equalizer. That, and a sharp knife. Coup de Grace him. If that doesn't work, just have everyone stand around his wounded body and hack until the carrion birds get queasy to look at him. A lawful party is going to be judge, jury, and executioner in this kind of situation. If you're good-aligned and murdering an obvious lunatic in his sleep makes you doubt your moral fiber, use subdual damage. Then, set his spellbooks on fire, along with every other possession he has. Then, leave him tied to a tree and go about your business. Mazeltov! Then kick the player out of the game and tell him he can't come back until he wants to actually play and not just mess with the other players.
smrtgmp 12-12-04, 03:50 PM	Shades have a +4LA. Does that mean he's 4 class levels behind the rest of the group? If so, he should have a hell of a time dispelling your spells. If the DM didnt take the LA into account (which would suck) than he would indeed be pretty powerful. One thing to try are several daylight spells. Shades only get their special powers in ares of darkness/shadowy illumination, so if you can surround him by daylight, it will take away all his extra powers. Have the party fighters (or archers, if you have them) ready actions to attack him when he starts to cast a spell. That will make things far more difficult for him. If the party works as a team, you should be able to take him out. Another potential solution is to talk to him out of game. Let him know that the rest of the group finds his actions disruptive. If he knows that he is making things less fun for the rest of the group, he might stop. If he doesnt, boot him out. D&D is supposed to be fun, not a sourse of stress. If he cant play well with others, vote him off the island.
Princeoflowlight 12-12-04, 09:55 PM	1) Have the cleric cast Death Ward on you before you go at it with him. 2) FORGET ABOUT USING SUMMONED CREATURES TO ATTACK. Summoned creatures suck as a front line attack. They always do for multiple reasons, Dispelling is just one of many of them. Summoned creeatures are good for: 1) Granting Sneak Attacks by flanking. 2) Taking targetted spells/attacks. 3) Dealing with wierd situations (Need a flying creature to attack, need an incorporeal creature to attack, need a creature immune to fire to attack, etc. etc.) 4) Setting off traps and other non-combat uses. Grappling spellcasters is also a good use for them.
Neynen 12-13-04, 01:01 AM	this is kinda wierd :confused: , if 3 players dont like 1 player, they ussualy kick him :D Another potential solution is to talk to him out of game. Let him know that the rest of the group finds his actions disruptive. If he knows that he is making things less fun for the rest of the group, he might stop. If he doesnt, boot him out. D&D is supposed to be fun, not a sourse of stress. If he cant play well with others, vote him off the island. i'm agree
cowdragon 12-13-04, 11:35 AM	Become a Half-Shadow Dragon and laugh your Ass off while he cries about his enervation not working anymore. Just use the dragon shape spell or take levels in it from a ritual. There should be many ways to do this. Have someone attack him while your wiz readies a counterspell action. Shouldn't be a problem with him being 4 levels behind you guys. Counterspell his crap and beat the snot out of him. Ignore your alignment and kill him. Draw and quarter him, stick his remains on a pike as an example. Do not toerate this crap from players. Sheesh! DnD is supposed to be fun not stressful. The Cowdragon :mage:
Nyferto 12-13-04, 11:46 AM	Surely you could just use Undead?
prutser 12-13-04, 03:17 PM	And where does your DM stand in this discussion? If one of the players is ***ing with the game, the DM should create a world of pain for him.
Vishnu 12-13-04, 10:59 PM	People, the whole point of me starting this discussion was of what ARCANE spells I can use to counter his Greater Enervation - forget the idea about the rest of the players ganging up on him... Vishnu.
cwslyclgh 12-13-04, 11:18 PM	death ward prevents enervation... and I agree with the others, if the DM is assigning level adjustments correctly he should have a hard time dispelling anything of yours... unless you are a multi-classed character... in which case you should have other options then spellcasting when it comes to taking him down.
[GSV] Kirstar 12-14-04, 04:04 AM	feeblemind baneful polymorph flesh to stone disintergrate need i go on.
tompulsar 12-14-04, 04:36 AM	Pretty much anything with a Reflex or Fort save. Start with one of your big nullifiers like Stinking cloud (lets see him enervating while he's puking his guts out). Worried about his shade abilities? A daylight spell should handle that. Still up? Our old friend Evard has a few sticky black friends that want to cop a feel on him. If watching that is to scary toss a solid fog on the area. If summoning is what you want to do remember he cant target your creatures if he is blind, glitterdust should handle that for ya. Or you could just summon up a wall of iron and have a good laugh as the dirty little necro squirms as the life is being crushed out of him by its toppled glory (hey there's half a chance it might happen...dare to dream) Anyhoo you get the point Conjurers get the best fort save arcane spell there are. Just use your imagination and like in all good fights, Hit First
Vishnu 12-14-04, 04:43 AM	Hi folks, Actually I have thought about all the above spells and more... OK let me explain the situation in a bit more detail: - He is a level 12 shade with uber equipment that gives him an intelligence of 25 and Will of 12. He gets darkness unlimited times in one day - that means he's in prepetual darkness. This gives him additional powers. - out of character: he is the 'group leader' of sorts - seems that he was one of the very first to start our group (about 10 members in all). I am a new member, only been with this group (and D&D in general for about 3 months). - Everyone, except me, generally agrees with him. I however, am a new member. I am about 2 years older than this guy - most of the time he tends to act like a jerk. For the few sessions that I have been through with this group he has had about 3 arguments with 3 of the members so far. The other 2 members seem to just give in - I on the other hand don't. - I play a level 15 gnome sorcerer with an intelligence of 12 and charisma of 19, Will of 10. I don't have any uber equipment. NOW PLEASE TELL ME WHAT ARCANE SPELLS I CAN USE AGAINST HIM IN A DUEL - HE USUALLY ABUSES ENERVATION AND SHADOW WALK. Vishnu.
tompulsar 12-14-04, 04:56 AM	AAaaahh! sorcerer Well let me tell you a little secret about sorcerers and mage duels. They pretty much can always win when fighting a wizard simply beacuse you can cast any of your lower level spells in higher level slots. The trick is making him exhaust all of his deadlies spells while you do exactly what he would do to you ..Dispell any and everything he throws at you. Many times it is a pain to do this but eventually he will run out of useful prepared spells. Just make sure you save back a few of your killers to finish him off after he's weak and floundering. I am interested in knowing what your spell list looks like and maybe I could come up with some other ideas :)
[GSV] Kirstar 12-14-04, 05:02 AM	dimensional anchor first of all. then use daylight If you read darkness you will see that it has no effect of spells of a higher level than itself Darkness Evocation [Darkness] Level: Brd 2, Clr 2, Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Object touched Duration: 10 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No This spell causes an object to radiate shadowy illumination out to a 20-foot radius. All creatures in the area gain concealment (20% miss chance). Even creatures that can normally see in such conditions (such as with darkvision or low-light vision) have the miss chance in an area shrouded in magical darkness. Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness. If darkness is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, the spell’s effect is blocked until the covering is removed. Darkness counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower spell level. Arcane Material Component: A bit of bat fur and either a drop of pitch or a piece of coal. Once he is in bright light he looses most of his powers. Then to paraphrase.... hex him till he glows then spell him in the dark
Etiquette_Gnome 12-14-04, 05:05 AM	I'm a touch curious as to why he seems to antagonize you and why the rest of the party agrees with him. Overall, I'd say you're a touch behind him and realistically don't have much hope at taking him out in a head-on fight because of the level difference and the equipment difference (exactly how Uber are we talking here compared to you?). Also, how can we suggest which spells to use when you're already set on which are available, you being a sorcerer and all? If you insist on taking him on in probably the worst possible conditions, that being a head-on dueling environment, then we've already provided you with a number of spells that could be an option...though I'd suggest enervation as well (I assume shades aren't immune to them), and illusions would be handy if used properly; and Planar Bindings could come in handy.
[GSV] Kirstar 12-14-04, 05:05 AM	oh yes. add evards black thingies :0 to the mix. personally if he annoyed me as much as I think he does you, then I wouldnt bother with crappy formal mage duels. nuke him, kill him then animate his corpse, so that if he gets a true resurection you can send his own dead body to attack him again.
cowdragon 12-14-04, 10:02 AM	A sorcerer with Dispel and Greater Dispel Magic are great counterspellers. Also, take the feat Arcane Mastery, this lets you take 10 on all caster level checks. No save spells are your friend. Pass a note to your DM and tell him your intention to slay this loser!!!! Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, Vampiric Touch, Melfs Acid Arrow, Evards Black Tentacles, Touch of Idiocy, Enervation, etc. Mix these up with any of the Fell Feats. Especially Fell Drain. Watch him cry when you drain level after level from him. He'll lose spells, saves, etc... OR, find a less whimpy and more adult group. The Cowdragon :mage:
Vishnu 12-15-04, 04:35 AM	Hi folks and thanks for the input, As to the question "why does he antagonize you and the others just agree with him...?" Well, they don't agree with him, he just verbally beats them into submission - I'm about the only one who's stuck to my arguments. Back to the game - he's a shade, who is prepetually surrounded by darkness and he's got blur and mirror image on most of the time - it's almost impossible to touch him. Even if I do, he's got good saves. Anyway out of this predicament. Sure I can use True Seeing, but I'd rather conserve my level 6 spell slots for more powerful spells - I am a sorcerer after all, with an extremely limited spell selection... Vishnu.
[GSV] Kirstar 12-15-04, 05:04 AM	just evards him. his blur & mirror image will have no effect. also daylight will counter his darkness robbing him of his special abilities. You dont have to cast true seeing, picj up a gem of seeing or something similar. Anther way is hire some mercs to attack him while you are travelling. get them to lob thunderstones and tangle foot bags at his dark patch. use greek fire oil as well. and tindertwig
Bane 12-15-04, 11:56 AM	First of all, Magic Missile is your friend. No save, and if he has mirror image up, one casting kills five images, or 4 images and a little damage to him. Does he sleep? If so, stay awake and put your portable hole right next to him. Then, use an unseen servant to drop a bag of holding into it. Then convince everyone that it's in their best interests not to look for him. If he objects, tell him he's on another plane, and unable to hear this conversation. If he persists, ask the DM to send him from the room for the duration of your little in game chat. If you decide not to look for him (as you probably will without him being there to browbeat the other players), he can roll up a new character, with the knowledge that if he tries to be a jerk, you will take measures to end that.
[GSV] Kirstar 12-16-04, 03:17 AM	nice idea bane.
Vishnu 12-16-04, 04:40 AM	Hi folks, Could you guys give me some idea as to any ARCANE equivalents of Death Ward? Vishnu.
thepuregamer 12-16-04, 05:03 AM	wouldn't a fell magic missle take this guy down? what is the big deal though? he has a lower caster lvl and fewer HD. If it turned into a spell battle shouldn't you win? Also if you start the fight, everyone else is right. you should be able to counterspell anything he does.
[GSV] Kirstar 12-16-04, 05:09 AM	i think their DM hasnt counted any level adjustment for this shade guy....
Lord Mortanius 12-16-04, 05:25 AM	Hi folks, Could you guys give me some idea as to any ARCANE equivalents of Death Ward? Vishnu. Shadow Shield.
Prachett 12-16-04, 11:17 AM	If you are a Sorceror, what are your known spells? Stop asking us what spells to use and tell us what spells you have, unless you're looking for scroll ideas? As far as blur and mirror image... they don't last that long and if he is continually casting them, he's got to be using his slots up and he can't have that many slots.
Pathanus 12-16-04, 01:28 PM	You could Power Word - Stun him, then beat him with monsters or... steal his spellbook and then attack him later that week after some of his spells are gone and if he doesn't get a new spellbook. You could also take Shadow Weave Magic and a level of Shadow Adept and combat him better. What level is he? My dwarven cleric in the Western Heartlands would gladly take him on ;) . Path [edit:] removed Shadow Weave working in Anti-Magic Field (it doesn't).
cowdragon 12-16-04, 04:35 PM	If he IS a shadow weave user, then just use regular weave magic on him. ;) I never thought about that. Cool. You could buy a scroll of Simulacrum...and attack him with both of you at the same time. You could wait until the party is fighting a powerful enemy, and hit him in the back with some nasty spell while he's concentrating on the enemy. Make sure he's fully distracted though. No counterspelling, no hitting back. Maybe summon a bunch of monsters to attack him during a battle. It's fun. I've used it on annoying PC's before myself. The Cowdragon :mage:
Vishnu 12-16-04, 10:16 PM	Hi people, "Shadow Shield" is an NWN spell - it's not stated in the v3.5 PHB or Magic of Faerun. Vishnu.
Pathanus 12-17-04, 07:24 PM	Limited Wish - Death Ward Some spell in Libris Mortis - makes you undead for duration (effectively benefits of undead) Item granting Soulfire (from BoED) enhancement. Item granting Deathwarding (PGtF maybe and others) enhancement. Or become Undead (lich or vampire or silverwraith). Path
Sourcemaster2 12-17-04, 10:33 PM	Vishnu, LIST YOUR SPELLS. As a sorcerer, your spells known is extremely vital. Show us what you've got, and someone will come up with a combo to lay this guy low easily-provided your choices weren't monumentally stupid (and probably even if they were). In addition, knowing what feats you've got would help quite a bit.
SmokeShadow 12-18-04, 01:26 AM	Globe of Invulnerability will save you from Enervation. But really, your best bet is to find a heavy pick, and wait 'till he's asleep. Remember the old rhyme: A heavy pick in the eye, causes most people to die.