Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Khelvaster 01-07-07, 12:03 AM	The text says that throwing this on the ground will form a tree with a five-foot diameter and an 80-foot height, along with a 30-foot canopy. I imagine it sprouting from the ground extremely quickly. If I throw this underneath someone, do they get shot to the top of the tree? If I throw this inside, does it burst the roof open? If I throw this in a narrow gap between two walls, would this destroy sections of those two walls? I am inclined to say yes to all of the above, since the text doesn't explicitly say the tree conforms to proper dimensions. Enlarge person, a similar case of possible destruction, explicitly states that it conforms to boundaries. The token doesn't say that, so I think it does all the above. Am I correct?
BellTower 01-07-07, 01:58 AM	I don't know about the combat applications but that item has some economic applications that are interesting. Quaal's Feather Token(Tree) + Fabricate = lots of furniture you can sell or free housing. I think the amount of wood produced by the token might be worth more than the token costs at that point but I don't know what wood goes for in D&D.
Animae_Draconum 01-07-07, 03:59 AM	I can garauntee that the wood produced from such a tree would be worth far less than 400 gp. But yes I've done some crazy thing with my beloved tree tokens. Used them on airships, inside inns, inside sewers, inside a portable hole, under water, at the base of a wall, as part of the give a dryad a home fund. A_D
cog_n_taz 01-07-07, 04:46 AM	I used it once to "poison" someone. Slipped it in their food with an illusion, and when they ate it, well... splat.
Seeker95 01-07-07, 09:01 AM	General feedback: do they get shot to the top of the tree? No, or only on a failed reflex save. does it burst the roof open? Maybe, per the rules for enlarging objects/creatures. Note that trees and other plants are very resourceful in conforming to their boundaries already. would this destroy sections of those two walls? Maybe, per the rules for enlarging objects/creatures as above. Slipped it in their food with an illusion, and when they ate it, well... splat. Wouldn't work. Once inside the other person, it is attended by them, not you. You cannot activate someone else's items. And think on this... if the PCs were allowed to do this, then so could the NPCs.
risner 01-07-07, 09:49 AM	Am I correct? Not by my view. False on all counts.
JellyPooga 01-07-07, 12:40 PM	I've always imagined the tree growing very fast from the spot you plant the token (do note that it must be firmly planted on the ground - IIRC it specifies this in the description). Thus, as with any tree growing in whatever space it is in, walls will be damaged, ceilings collapsed, etc. If a tree manages to grow somewhere, mere masonry will not stop it from growing where it wants to...sure, the tree may be in a different shape than it might otherwise be, but the tree will win. I would not say that it is particularly usable in combat without taking AOO and AC penalties (flat-footed perhaps?), but could be used as a very quick ladder perhaps or to collapse part of a tunnel to escape (could prove disastrous to the party though...). I first used a tree token with a character that was a collector of random artifacts and happened to have one that he picked up for no other reason than to have it (read - when I generated the character I rolled several random magic items that he just 'had'...I hadn't thought about the uses of Tree Tokens before). At one point, we came to a locked portcullis and, not having a rogue in the party, were at a loss about how to proceed...Add one Tree Token. Minus one portcullis.
Knight0 01-07-07, 01:20 PM	Animae_Draconum 2 words Masterwork Quarterstaves sell for 300 GP a piece and im sure you can make more than one with a 80 ft tree.
Elzaban the Ethereal 01-07-07, 01:21 PM	Slipped it in their food with an illusion, and when they ate it, well... splat. Wouldn't work. Once inside the other person, it is attended by them, not you. You cannot activate someone else's items. And think on this... if the PCs were allowed to do this, then so could the NPCs. Hmm... in that case, could a person swallow a Tree Feather Token, and then keep it to activate inside of them in case they are "captured by the enemy" or something of the sort. Kind of a cyanide pill of sorts, with the nice effect that you kind of explode, and a tree takes your place (possibly breaking walls and the ilk allowing others to free themselves). Possibly something for an agent of some sort of Druidic spy ring.
Seeker95 01-07-07, 01:53 PM	Intentional suicide? Yes.
Seeker95 01-07-07, 01:54 PM	I've always imagined the tree growing very fast Thus, as with any tree growing in whatever space it is in, walls will be damaged, ceilings collapsed, etc.Except that a real tree does not grow very fast. It causes its damage over time. It slowly pushes through a roof, or digs its roots up through a sidewalk. It does not do this rapidly at all.
frasmage 01-07-07, 02:06 PM	and also remember, conjuration effects can only be created in an open space that can supporyt it. You cannot toss it and have it transform in mid air and have it land on someone. It only transforms once it reaches a landing spot.
Shadowfax7 01-07-07, 03:48 PM	Hmm... in that case, could a person swallow a Tree Feather Token, and then keep it to activate inside of them in case they are "captured by the enemy" or something of the sort. Kind of a cyanide pill of sorts, with the nice effect that you kind of explode, and a tree takes your place (possibly breaking walls and the ilk allowing others to free themselves). Possibly something for an agent of some sort of Druidic spy ring. Intentional suicide? Yes. A very painful one at that . . . I would much prefer a fine-size poison sack kept in my mouth.
revaar 01-07-07, 05:23 PM	slightly of topic question, but stil pertaining to feather tokens: how exactly do you activate feather tokens, i'm looking at the descrition in gthe DMG right now, and all it says for the tree token (for example) is "A token that causes a great oak treeto spring into being (5-foot diameter trunk, 60-foot hight, 40 foot top diameter). This is an instantaneous effect." (this is waht is says in the SRD as well) So does the tree spring out of the token, or can you choose where it pops out, or what?
yrogerg 01-07-07, 05:37 PM	I can garauntee that the wood produced from such a tree would be worth far less than 400 gp. Naturally. In fact, judging by the cost of a Quarterstaff, it's probably free. However, you could harvest it and Craft the staffs instantaneously, according to the Craft rules. Basically, you punch the tree, and it falls apart into perfectly-forms cylinders of approximately 5-6 feet in length. ...Yeah, there's something a bit screwy there, but I *really* want to try abusing that trick in a game sometime.
cog_n_taz 01-07-07, 07:55 PM	O-kay... well, I didn't know that that was against the rules, and the DM allowed it, so I remained ignorant until you came along..sorry.
Seeker95 01-07-07, 09:00 PM	I apologize for shattering the dream. :D
Morotis 01-07-07, 09:51 PM	Naturally. In fact, judging by the cost of a Quarterstaff, it's probably free. However, you could harvest it and Craft the staffs instantaneously, according to the Craft rules. Basically, you punch the tree, and it falls apart into perfectly-forms cylinders of approximately 5-6 feet in length. ...Yeah, there's something a bit screwy there, but I *really* want to try abusing that trick in a game sometime. Once I picked up a chair leg in a bar fight where my fighter had no weapons. He had a few ranks in Craft (Weaponsmith). As a free action I poked the chair leg and it turned into a club, so I didn't take improvised weapon penalties. Best idea ever.
cog_n_taz 01-07-07, 10:00 PM	Lets not forget, trees make great improvised weapons! Sorry, frenzied berserker here.
journeyman777 01-07-07, 10:59 PM	Basically, you punch the tree, and it falls apart into perfectly-forms cylinders of approximately 5-6 feet in length.That does it, now I must play a druid/monk/sacred fist with craft weapon. Now I worry about craft checks and the material for a sling... Sorry for the slight derail.
risner 01-08-07, 11:01 AM	As a free action I poked the chair leg and it turned into a club Am I just being dense or is this thread filled with joking references to crafting 0 cost items being instant? Because the way I see it, any craft check (including a normal Quarterstaff or Club check) would take 1 day minimum to make that 0 cp item. This whole concept of "I poke it" and it instantly becomes a functional item must be a joke? People don't really think the rules allow for this do they?
cog_n_taz 01-08-07, 11:14 AM	The joke is that the rules do allow it, though no one would do it seriously.
risner 01-08-07, 01:25 PM	The joke is that the rules do allow it, though no one would do it seriously. Actually, can someone show me the line that allows this? Since by my reading of the rules, the time to build a Quarterstaff is a minimum of 1 day. I would like to read the line that says a 0 copper cost item is made in a fraction of a second.
Loki5654 01-08-07, 01:38 PM	According to the Craft skill you make checks representing a week's work or a day's work. So, by inference, one day is the minimum crafting time for any object.
MaverickWolf 01-08-07, 01:54 PM	Actually, can someone show me the line that allows this? Since by my reading of the rules, the time to build a Quarterstaff is a minimum of 1 day. I would like to read the line that says a 0 copper cost item is made in a fraction of a second. You're thinking of making magic items. Magic items do require a minimum of one day (well, 8 hours technically, but anyway) to make, a restriction that does not apply to making non-magical items through the Craft skill.
Loki5654 01-08-07, 02:17 PM	Excerpted from the SRD Craft Skill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm): To determine how much time and money it takes to make an item, follow these steps. 1. Find the item’s price. Put the price in silver pieces (1 gp = 10 sp). 2. Find the DC from the table below. 3. Pay one-third of the item’s price for the cost of raw materials. 4. Make an appropriate Craft check representing one week’s work. If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by the DC. If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in sp, then you have completed the item. (If the result × the DC equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you’ve completed the task in one-half or one-third of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner.) If the result × the DC doesn’t equal the price, then it represents the progress you’ve made this week. Record the result and make a new Craft check for the next week. Each week, you make more progress until your total reaches the price of the item in silver pieces. You can make checks by the day instead of by the week. In this case your progress (check result × DC) is in copper pieces instead of silver pieces.So you have to put in at least one day's work before you are allowed to make a Craft check.
T_Stalker 01-08-07, 02:56 PM	Am I just being dense or is this thread filled with joking references to crafting 0 cost items being instant? Because the way I see it, any craft check (including a normal Quarterstaff or Club check) would take 1 day minimum to make that 0 cp item. This whole concept of "I poke it" and it instantly becomes a functional item must be a joke? People don't really think the rules allow for this do they? I don't know about the combat applications but that item has some economic applications that are interesting. Quaal's Feather Token(Tree) + Fabricate = lots of furniture you can sell or free housing. I think the amount of wood produced by the token might be worth more than the token costs at that point but I don't know what wood goes for in D&D. I think the fabricate is what made that instant effect for you. As DM I would certainly allow a player with the craft skill to smash a chair, leaving only the leg and use it as a club. I mean, come on, it's a club. (Speaking of which, are there any weapon stats for a rock? ) About the swallowing tree tokens. I hadn't even thought about the item attuning to the eater. I just figured you'ld have to apply the basic conjuration rule. So the victim would be fine, maybe have a little digestion problem. Two days later, when he uses the little boys room however ... Does litterally being caught with your pants down and being flat-footed deny you a reflex save? Balance or Climb check DC 25 or falling damage?
Neochronic 01-08-07, 03:12 PM	Two days later, when he uses the little boys room however ... Two days later? Dude needs more fiber in his diet!
risner 01-08-07, 03:36 PM	You're thinking of making magic items. ... a restriction that does not apply to making non-magical items through the Craft skill. No, I am absolutely thinking of Craft (Skill) checks. Care to quote the rule that states "if the item costs 0 cp or less, it is made instantaneously" from the PHB, because I just don't see it in my book? Do I have a misprint? I think the fabricate is what made that instant effect for you. As DM I would certainly allow a player with the craft skill to smash a chair, leaving only the leg and use it as a club. I mean, come on, it's a club. Yea Fabricate would be instant, but a normal craft check without using Fabricate would be a minimum of 1 day. I would also allow someone to break a leg off and use it as a club if it was of the same size as a Club.
DreadArchon 01-08-07, 05:41 PM	Two days later? Dude needs more fiber in his diet! A whole oak tree isn't enough?