Acid Fog Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Acid Fog Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rake
11-19-05, 09:23 AM My question is simple: Would acid fog (and similar 'continual damage' AoE spells) eat at the player's items? Nowhere in the description of the spell does it say that it doesn't, but if so, that's... well... pretty awful. Acid damage ignores hardness, if I recall correctly, so backpacks and their contents would pretty much melt away, potion vials would also, as would nonmagical arms and armor - all fairly quickly, especially since it takes at least a couple rounds to get out of acid fog.

And magical items would melt gradually, also, wouldn't they? Granted they have more hp and hardness (I think they get more hardness, don't they? Not that it matters, when you're dealing with acid...), but say a character drops in the fog - even his magic items'll melt before too long. Is acid fog really intended to wipe all the character's belongings?

Incidentally, I ask because my players encountered a greenvise recently, and I ruled after a round or three (finding no reason not to) that their packs and most of their worn items melted off and were destroyed. This killed (in addition to a PC, but that's neither here nor there) a fair amount of potions and scrolls worn on belts and bandoleers, a fair amount of masterwork gear, and though the acid didn't make it to the items inside the packs before they escaped the fog, it did get the packs themselves.

Seems a tad much! Thoughts?
Seeker95
11-19-05, 11:21 AM My question is simple: Would acid fog (and similar 'continual damage' AoE spells) eat at the player's items?By the rules, no. At least not automatically. If you fail your saving throw by rolling a 1, your items may be damaged. See page 177 of the PHB for more information on this.
Goreg Skullcrusher
11-19-05, 11:31 AM By the rules, no. At least not automatically. If you fail your saving throw by rolling a 1, your items may be damaged. See page 177 of the PHB for more information on this.

Except that the spell doesn't allow a save. By the way it's worded, it damages all objects within the area, equipped or otherwise. I'd personally house-rule it to only damage unattended objects, as you can easily trash a good number of a PC's accessories with this spell.

Acid damage ignores hardness, if I recall correctly,

It doesn't ignore hardness, it simply isn't reduced before applying it to objects. (The way fire, cold and electricity are) There's an update to the FAQ on this. The section in the DMG was just worded poorly such that either interpretation could have been valid.
Derren S.
11-19-05, 11:38 AM The spell won't damage the items that are in players (or other creature) possesion as it would make this spell very frustrating and very powerfull.
But when the creature/player is killed while in the fog the items start to be getting damaged.
Rake
11-19-05, 11:41 AM By the rules, no. At least not automatically. If you fail your saving throw by rolling a 1, your items may be damaged. See page 177 of the PHB for more information on this.
That I knew, but acid fog is just automatic damage, as stated above. I'm sort of tempted to houserule it, but it almost wouldn't make sense for the PC's NOT to emerge with toasted items. My heart's tellin' me to go with the RAW, though, and that's what my players get for agreeing to an extra-tough campaign if I allowed 32 point-buy. :P
Seeker95
11-19-05, 12:26 PM That I knew, but acid fog is just automatic damage, as stated above.Then there is no damage to attended objects.
No save = No risk.

However, it is a 6th level spell, so ruling otherwise is not an over-the-top house rule. I *would* allow magical objects to have a save, if you go this route.
Black Mantha
11-19-05, 01:02 PM Then there is no damage to attended objects.
No save = No risk.

However, it is a 6th level spell, so ruling otherwise is not an over-the-top house rule. I *would* allow magical objects to have a save, if you go this route.
A fortitude saving throw, then. I'd say half damage. Is it applied before or after the hardness?

Anyway, if you need the exact text relevant:
Items Surviving after a Saving Throw: Unless the descriptive
text for the spell specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a
creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a
natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, [...]
tarkin
11-19-05, 04:07 PM That is poor reasoning.

The question is not "is a 6th level spell powerfull enough to do this fairly."

I have no compuction at all about making a 6th level spell that also damages items.

Instead the question is "Is this 6th level spell weak enough compared to other 6th level spells that it is fair to do this."

And the answer to that is a resoundin NO.

Acid Fog is one of thebest 6th level spells around. It stops people from moving, it does tremoundous damage to them, it ignores SR, it has no save, and it provides concealment.

Against many creatures, this spell alone will ensure that you win the battle.

Having it destroy items on top of that makes it an 8th level spell.

The only way I could see letting it do that is if you are playing a game where EVERYTHING is significantly more powerfull, i.e. a Power game or an Anything Goes Game.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rake 11-19-05, 09:23 AM	My question is simple: Would acid fog (and similar 'continual damage' AoE spells) eat at the player's items? Nowhere in the description of the spell does it say that it doesn't, but if so, that's... well... pretty awful. Acid damage ignores hardness, if I recall correctly, so backpacks and their contents would pretty much melt away, potion vials would also, as would nonmagical arms and armor - all fairly quickly, especially since it takes at least a couple rounds to get out of acid fog. And magical items would melt gradually, also, wouldn't they? Granted they have more hp and hardness (I think they get more hardness, don't they? Not that it matters, when you're dealing with acid...), but say a character drops in the fog - even his magic items'll melt before too long. Is acid fog really intended to wipe all the character's belongings? Incidentally, I ask because my players encountered a greenvise recently, and I ruled after a round or three (finding no reason not to) that their packs and most of their worn items melted off and were destroyed. This killed (in addition to a PC, but that's neither here nor there) a fair amount of potions and scrolls worn on belts and bandoleers, a fair amount of masterwork gear, and though the acid didn't make it to the items inside the packs before they escaped the fog, it did get the packs themselves. Seems a tad much! Thoughts?
Seeker95 11-19-05, 11:21 AM	My question is simple: Would acid fog (and similar 'continual damage' AoE spells) eat at the player's items?By the rules, no. At least not automatically. If you fail your saving throw by rolling a 1, your items may be damaged. See page 177 of the PHB for more information on this.
Goreg Skullcrusher 11-19-05, 11:31 AM	By the rules, no. At least not automatically. If you fail your saving throw by rolling a 1, your items may be damaged. See page 177 of the PHB for more information on this. Except that the spell doesn't allow a save. By the way it's worded, it damages all objects within the area, equipped or otherwise. I'd personally house-rule it to only damage unattended objects, as you can easily trash a good number of a PC's accessories with this spell. Acid damage ignores hardness, if I recall correctly, It doesn't ignore hardness, it simply isn't reduced before applying it to objects. (The way fire, cold and electricity are) There's an update to the FAQ on this. The section in the DMG was just worded poorly such that either interpretation could have been valid.
Derren S. 11-19-05, 11:38 AM	The spell won't damage the items that are in players (or other creature) possesion as it would make this spell very frustrating and very powerfull. But when the creature/player is killed while in the fog the items start to be getting damaged.
Rake 11-19-05, 11:41 AM	By the rules, no. At least not automatically. If you fail your saving throw by rolling a 1, your items may be damaged. See page 177 of the PHB for more information on this. That I knew, but acid fog is just automatic damage, as stated above. I'm sort of tempted to houserule it, but it almost wouldn't make sense for the PC's NOT to emerge with toasted items. My heart's tellin' me to go with the RAW, though, and that's what my players get for agreeing to an extra-tough campaign if I allowed 32 point-buy. :P
Seeker95 11-19-05, 12:26 PM	That I knew, but acid fog is just automatic damage, as stated above.Then there is no damage to attended objects. No save = No risk. However, it is a 6th level spell, so ruling otherwise is not an over-the-top house rule. I would allow magical objects to have a save, if you go this route.
Black Mantha 11-19-05, 01:02 PM	Then there is no damage to attended objects. No save = No risk. However, it is a 6th level spell, so ruling otherwise is not an over-the-top house rule. I would allow magical objects to have a save, if you go this route. A fortitude saving throw, then. I'd say half damage. Is it applied before or after the hardness? Anyway, if you need the exact text relevant: Items Surviving after a Saving Throw: Unless the descriptive text for the spell specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, [...]
tarkin 11-19-05, 04:07 PM	That is poor reasoning. The question is not "is a 6th level spell powerfull enough to do this fairly." I have no compuction at all about making a 6th level spell that also damages items. Instead the question is "Is this 6th level spell weak enough compared to other 6th level spells that it is fair to do this." And the answer to that is a resoundin NO. Acid Fog is one of thebest 6th level spells around. It stops people from moving, it does tremoundous damage to them, it ignores SR, it has no save, and it provides concealment. Against many creatures, this spell alone will ensure that you win the battle. Having it destroy items on top of that makes it an 8th level spell. The only way I could see letting it do that is if you are playing a game where EVERYTHING is significantly more powerfull, i.e. a Power game or an Anything Goes Game.