Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Qube 11-29-06, 04:44 AM	is their a way to activate an item as free action? reason: - storm of arrows (compl. adventurer, ranger lvl 4 spell, casting time 1 swift action; personal only; duration 1 rnd) lets take a full round action to shoot 1 arrow to each opponent (capped by your level) - lvl 20 rogue with use magic device and quickdraw idea: - highest in init. - UMD lets him cast storm of arrows - get ranged sneak attack against each opponent in 30 ft (+10d6) :D
CantripN 11-29-06, 04:49 AM	An Intelligent Item? BTW, how often do you get in range of that many bad guys in 30"? That's not healthy.
Qube 11-29-06, 04:55 AM	An Intelligent Item? can an intel. item activate as free action, or does the intel. item activate its self? BTW, how often do you get in range of that many bad guys in 30"? That's not healthy. i'm talking beginning of combat. how about kick in the door, and supprize a BBEG with an 15 minions in 30 ft. or stop your invisibility spell, with many minions in 30 ft (the fighter/mage/ ... can chop up those who are still standing)
CantripN 11-29-06, 05:25 AM	can an intel. item activate as free action, or does the intel. item activate its self? i'm talking beginning of combat. how about kick in the door, and supprize a BBEG with an 15 minions in 30 ft. or stop your invisibility spell, with many minions in 30 ft (the fighter/mage/ ... can chop up those who are still standing) It can activate itself. And it's nice when YOU are the one surprising the BBEG. Not too common, but it happens. Normally, some will make the Listen check to hear you before you break down the door.
Qube 11-29-06, 05:28 AM	And it's nice when YOU are the one surprising the BBEG. Not too common, but it happens. Normally, some will make the Listen check to hear you before you break down the door. but i'm very very sneaky ye know :) , penalty for the door, and the distance; the small-if-any bonus on listen of minions and i don't need suprize, only being the first in init (or extremely high), to get as many sneak attacks as possible.
risner 11-29-06, 06:07 PM	is their a way to activate an item as free action? - storm of arrows (compl. adventurer, ranger lvl 4 spell, casting time 1 swift action; personal only; duration 1 rnd) Yes, look at Boots of Speed and ring of Force Shield. The general wisdom is that you need to increase the cost if it is a swift activation. Also, since the spell is personal only, the cost for that spell in an item would be much higher. I couldn't find a similar item to base the price. So lets calculate the cost by the last rule so we can judge the price by rule 2. SL=4 (Ranger 4th level spell) CL=14 (Rangers get 4th level spells at level 14) 3/day = 4*14*1,800 = 100,800 gp / 5 * 3 = 60,480 gp Add in cost for swift (cheap way): 3/day = (4+4)*14*1,800/5*3 = 120,960 gp Clearly an expensive item. Maybe too expensive. It is an ability that demanded level 14 or higher. If you based the level on 8th level, then 15th level may be a good level to increase it to pay for the "personal only" effect. So price it at half the worth of a level 15th character? DMG p135: 100,000 gp So it would seem that between 100,000 gp and 120,960 gp is a fair price for a 3/day item of this effect. So a 3/day of this: (4+4)*
Nathreet 11-29-06, 06:23 PM	Intelligent items can activate themselves, which is just as good. Probably expensive, though.
Qube 11-30-06, 01:51 AM	Yes, look at Boots of Speed and ring of Force Shield. The general wisdom is that you need to increase the cost if it is a swift activation. Also, since the spell is personal only, the cost for that spell in an item would be much higher. I couldn't find a similar item to base the price. So lets calculate the cost by the last rule so we can judge the price by rule 2. SL=4 (Ranger 4th level spell) CL=14 (Rangers get 4th level spells at level 14) 3/day = 4*14*1,800 = 100,800 gp / 5 * 3 = 60,480 gp Add in cost for swift (cheap way): 3/day = (4+4)*14*1,800/5*3 = 120,960 gp Clearly an expensive item. Maybe too expensive. It is an ability that demanded level 14 or higher. If you based the level on 8th level, then 15th level may be a good level to increase it to pay for the "personal only" effect. So price it at half the worth of a level 15th character? DMG p135: 100,000 gp So it would seem that between 100,000 gp and 120,960 gp is a fair price for a 3/day item of this effect. So a 3/day of this: (4+4)* how do you come at 4+4? quicken metamagic? the spell is already a swift action to cast. i am already happy with 1/week ... (i mean, combat must begin with more then 2 enemies within 30ft, and i need one of the highest inits) so this will lower the price quite a bit.
Dheran 11-30-06, 10:57 AM	One other option is to rely on Use Magic Device's Activate Blindly option when you don't know a magic item's command word.Use Magic Device (Cha; Trained Only) Activate Blindly Some magic items are activated by special words, thoughts, or actions. You can activate such an item as if you were using the activation word, thought, or action, even when you’re not and even if you don’t know it. You do have to perform some equivalent activity in order to make the check. That is, you must speak, wave the item around, or otherwise attempt to get it to activate. Action: None. The Use Magic Device check is made as part of the action (if any) required to activate the magic item. So, with Activate Blindly, thinking "Function!" would qualify as your "otherwise attempt to get it to activate" action. Thinking is generally a free action, and your DM may rule (as mine did) that using Activate Blindly with a thought would make the item activate as a free action -- but you're always subject to Activate Blindly's mishap chance if you don't make your DC 25 check.
tarkin 11-30-06, 02:50 PM	Dheran, you have written a rather twisted house rule. Here, let me quote the relevant portions of what you misread: You can activate such an item as if you were using the activation word, thought, or action, even when you’re not and even if you don’t know it. You do have to perform some equivalent activity in order to make the check A Strict, Loose, or even a Power DM is going to say that if the item's real activation takes a standard action, then an equivelent activity is some other standard action. It takes an Anything Goes DM to rule that a free action is 'equivlent' to a standard action.
Qube 12-01-06, 01:52 AM	i fear were getting of topic here. this main question was, is it possible the activate an item, that carries a spell with casting time a swift action, as a swift action? - is this default behaviour for such items? - or is their a trick to it (and what is the trick)? - or is it imposible?
risner 12-01-06, 03:43 PM	- is this default behaviour for such items? - or is their a trick to it (and what is the trick)? - or is it imposible? Not default behaviour. An item defaults to 1 standard action regardless of the spell used inside it. You tend to pay additional to match the faster casting time of the spell when in item form. The best way to do that is to pay to quicken the "swift" spell. Not impossible, just expensive.
Qube 12-02-06, 01:34 AM	darn :raincloud
daota 12-02-06, 01:54 AM	DMG 213 "Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise. However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item, whether it's a scroll, a wand, or a pair of boots, unless the item description states otherwise" Since the casting time of Storm of Arrows is a swift action, the time required to activate the same power in an item is a swift action.
Qube 12-02-06, 02:38 AM	:w00t: rogue storm of arrows here i come :w00t:
Archtyrant Terevoth 12-02-06, 02:54 AM	i fear were getting of topic here. this main question was, is it possible the activate an item, that carries a spell with casting time a swift action, as a swift action? - is this default behaviour for such items? - or is their a trick to it (and what is the trick)? - or is it imposible? Normally swift spells are cast as standard actions if cast from an item (such as a wand). See spell compendium rules in chapter 1 for this ruling. You can of course make wondrous items that have swift activation times (or intelligent items that activate themselves), but this is of course entirely up to the DM to allow and price, so it's by no means a RAW solution. You can make items that activate on contingency via craft contingent item (arguably one of the most broken feats ever). Of course this will create expensive one shot contingency items.
jaelis 12-02-06, 10:44 AM	Also, let's not get carried away here. It is not a swift action effect... it is a swift action to activate plus a full-round to make the attacks. Compare this to a spell that did, I don't know, 14d6 damage (sneak attack plus base damage) to a bunch of targets, required a full-round +swift action and a ranged attack roll (but typeless damage and no save). That's not out of line for a 4th level spell at CL 14, it's maybe even kind of weak. So I think risner's original price of 60000 gp is just fine. You should, though, be limited to 14 targets, since the spell limits the number of targets to the caster's character level.
daota 12-02-06, 11:38 AM	I'd be tempted to ignore the Spell Compendium. The magic item creation section in the DMG notes that you can apply metamagic feats to spells put into magic items, and specifically uses Quicken as an example. It seems inconsistent to allow a quickened fireball scroll as a swift action while a scroll for a normally swift action spell is a standard action. Unless you rule that a scroll of quickened fireball is a standard action, in which case the example in the DMG makes no sense. Magic items and item creation really could use some clarification.
High Octane 12-02-06, 03:49 PM	If the spell is a swift action, it will take a swift action to use. There is a good reason standard action spells are not able to be used from items as a free/swift action. That reason is True Strike.