Adding extra powers to a magic item, pricing... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Adding extra powers to a magic item, pricing... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Neverborn
06-12-04, 07:11 PM See title, i was wondering if you guys could help settle a little dispute between DungeonMaster and myself on the cost of adding additional powers to a (slotted) magic item...

I'll just copy/paste our discussion from elsewhere here, and then see what the general opinion is...

DM: However on page 246 of the DMG a crafter is allowed to add magical abilities to an item with no restriction at double the cost. So if you want gauntlets of giant strength (+2) and dexterity (+2)that would cost you 8000 GP.

Me: Oh, just a little nitpick, when adding additional properties to the same item, the extra properties cost double like you said, so Gauntlets of Str and Dex +2 would be 12000 and not 8000 right? (4000 for the first property, +2 str, and 8000 for the second, +2 dex).

DM: The item creation on p.246 of the DMG uses a +2 ring of of protection and invisibility as an example. The ring costs double the most expensive property on it, double the price of a ring of invisibility.
So +2 str +2 dex guantlets would cost only 8000 GP.

Me: About the item creation thingy, while it would be in my best interest to just agree with you, i'm still going to try and explain why i disagree! (Honesty is one of my many good qualities!)

When adding a second power to an item that already has one, you add double the cost of the second one, but you also STILL pay the cost for the first one!

So in the example used on page 246 of the dmg, where they add the invisibility to the ring of protection +2, you pay twice the price for invisibility, IN ADDITION to the price of the ring of protection +2! Nowhere does it say the item costs twice the price of the most expensive power, they only say that ADDING invisibility to the ring of prot +2 costs twice the invisibility power!

You do not get the first power for free, just because you pay double for the second! Think about it, if it worked that way, gloves of str and dex +2 would cost exactly the same as a pair of gloves of dex +2 and a pair of gauntlets of str +2! The whole idea of doubling the price for extra powers on the same item is that you pay MORE for the benefit of sparing an item slot!

DM: Neverborn: I'm not sure if that's correct because the all it says is twice the cost of a ring of invisibility. It becomes prohibitively expensive to stack things even at that rate. It would probably be a good question to bring up on the spells and magic item board and see what we get as replies, in this thread I'll give the most advantageous interpretation to the warriors.

Me: Hey DM,
You are right in that the spells and magic items board is a good place for it, when i have the time, i'll post it there!
One last reply, and i'll shut up about it in this thread, and let you get back to doing the challenge!

In the example we talked about, they mention the cost of adding invisibility to a ring of protection +2, and they only mention the cost of the invisibility as you said, however, they start out with a ring of prot +2, just for the example!

Now when creating a character, you cannot simply say: "Alright, i'm going to buy/craft a ring of Protection +2 that also has the invisibility power, so i'll just start with this ring of protection +2 that just dropped from the sky, and add/have someone add the invisibility power to it!"

It just does not work that way, first the ring of prot has to be created (and payed for), and then another power can be added to it at double the price!

That's the way I look at it at least, which does not mean that this HAS to be the correct inerpretation, but it makes sense to me...

Well... there you have it, those of you who bothered to read all the way through this can now tell me i'm right! ;)
Seeker95
06-12-04, 09:40 PM If you're upgrading an item, take the new complete item price and subtract the original item price to determine the cost of the upgrade.

If you are adding a completely unrelated ability to an existing item, The new ability is added at 150% of its normal price.

Gloves of dexterity are 4,000gp. (affinity)
Gauntlets of strength are 4,000gp. (affinity)

Gloves of strength are 6,000gp. (non-affinity)
Gauntlets of dexterity are 6,000gp. (non-affinity)

Making gauntlets or gloves of dexterity and strength will cost
(Initial power) + (New power * 1.5) = 13,000gp

Part of the problem you are facing is that rings do not suffer affinity problems. They are a slotted item with no affinity requirement.

However, to the question of adding a new power to an existing item...

to do this, you must first have an existing item. Of course, there is nothing wrong with making the existing item and adding the power to it all at the same time. Make the ring of protection +2 and add invisibility to it.
Neverborn
06-13-04, 06:02 AM Oh, silly me, i forgot to mention we are talking about 3.0!

And the discussion was about adding an additional power to an item that uses up a slot on the body...
Neverborn
06-13-04, 06:06 AM Originally posted by Seeker95

However, to the question of adding a new power to an existing item...

to do this, you must first have an existing item. Of course, there is nothing wrong with making the existing item and adding the power to it all at the same time. Make the ring of protection +2 and add invisibility to it.

So Seeker, in this case, you DO pay the normal price for the protection +2, and double for the invisibility power, right? (in 3.0)
(No matter if you first buy a ring of protection +2 and then sometime later have someone add the power of invisibility to it, or if both powers are added to the ring at the time of creation)
Seeker95
06-13-04, 08:24 AM Originally posted by Neverborn
So Seeker, in this case, you DO pay the normal price for the protection +2, and double for the invisibility power, right?Right. Or the reverse. :D
Neverborn
06-13-04, 12:01 PM Hehe alright, tnx! :)
deafbymetal
06-16-04, 08:14 PM O.K., riddle me this-
In the DMG under magic item creation, is says "A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword." Huh?
Take a +2 Longsword, cost 2,315 gp, and make it into a +2 Vorpal Longsword, cost 98,315 gp. If it were not magical, the cost to create would be +2 (normally 8,000 gp), but to add the Vorpal effect (+5 Base Price), the base price then becomes +7= 98,315 gp, correct?
But , take a +2 Vorpal Longsword (cost 98,315 gp), then subtract the cost of a +1 Longsword (2,315 gp), your final cost would then be 96,000 gp, right?
Well, which is it. The sentence contradicts itself.
was_fired
06-16-04, 09:43 PM deaf just use some common sense. You just pay the difference between the new and old costs. In the case of a magical weapon it is 2000(new bonus squared - old bonus squared). So yes it would be 96,000gp. There is no contradiction there.
deafbymetal
06-16-04, 10:18 PM If my posting was a little complicated, let me simplify.
"The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical."
So, taking a masterwork (not magical) longsword and making a +7 Base Price weapon cost- 98,315 gp.
Later in the same sentence- "equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword." 98,315 gp- 2,315 gp= 96,000 gp.
It can only be one or the other. I think the first quoted text should never have been put in in the first place.
Now try walking up to someone you've never met and saying "Hey, you. Use some common sense." What do you think the reaction to that statement would be? Pretty rude there, fired.
was_fired
06-16-04, 10:29 PM I never claimed to be a polite person. If I was I likely wouldn't spend so much time here. The +1 weapon's price just like the +7 weapons price already includes the base weapon's cost. Thus when upgrading can just be ignored since it's already payed.
Seeker95
06-16-04, 10:52 PM Originally posted by deafbymetal
Now try walking up to someone you've never met and saying "Hey, you. Use some common sense." What do you think the reaction to that statement would be? Pretty rude there, fired. If their question was as simple as which bathroom is for men? the answer would be direct.

But when the question is phrased: Riddle me this, stranger. The facilities provided for the relief of ones excretory functions is usually segregated into separate areas, each with different sanitation devices to accomodate the differences in biological anatomies. But should I enter the one with the picture of the skirt on the door, or the one without? you are likely to get an answer a little less direct, and certainly one that suggests the asker apply a little common sense.
deafbymetal
06-18-04, 06:22 PM Whatever. Justify rudeness however you please. Anyway, the original question is unanswered. Try this one instead.
"The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical." Take a +5 Longsword (50,315 gp) and make it a +5 Flaming Longsword. It would cost 72,315 gp. But "Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword.." In this case the cost would only be a matter of 12,000 gp (72,315 -50,315)
was_fired
06-18-04, 08:35 PM What the hell are you talking about? A plus 1 sword longsword is worth 2315gp a +7 longsword is worth 98315gp. 72315gp is the cost of +5 longsword which is not the total bonus on a +2 vorpal longsword. Stop trying to pretend to be clever and just accept that once you have a masterwork weapon the only formula you need to remember is 2000(new bonus squared - old bonus squared). I have grown tired of this if you want to keep reading the rules incorrectly feel free to. Odds are I will never DM you and thus won't have to beat you senseless with the DM's guide.
ORC_Tuhteth
06-18-04, 10:29 PM Please do not make comments about other posters -- that includes humorous and/or sarcastic comments such as beating someone senseless with a DM Guide. :)

Seriously, just be polite and restrict your comments to the topic, not each other. Please review the Code of Conduct (http://www.wizards.com/coc) or ask a WizO if you have any questions.
deafbymetal
06-18-04, 10:46 PM Those little marks- " - are called quotations.
In the DM guide it says "A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical."
So, you have a +5 Longsword, worth 50,315 gp, you want to upgrade it to a +5 Flaming Longsword. Treat it as non-magical, and the cost would be 72,000. My mistake to keep including the cost of the weapon after the initial purchase. I'm man enough to admit mistakes.
Here comes those pesky marks again. They mean the following comes from another source.
"Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword,with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword."
Same weapon as above, a +5 Longsword, worth 50,315 gp. Make it into a +5 FLaming Longsword, worth 72,315 gp. The cost to create being equal to that of a (+5 Flaming) Longsword (72,000) minus the cost of a (+5) Longsword (50,0000). This comes to 12,000 gp.
I am glad you are not my DM as well. I would rather have my teeth pulled out with blasting caps.
This is my last posting on this subject. I do not care what your reply is, threaten somebody else with your DM guide from a 1000 miles away if that makes you feel good. Bull**** tough guy posturing is for schoolyards.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Neverborn 06-12-04, 07:11 PM	See title, i was wondering if you guys could help settle a little dispute between DungeonMaster and myself on the cost of adding additional powers to a (slotted) magic item... I'll just copy/paste our discussion from elsewhere here, and then see what the general opinion is... DM: However on page 246 of the DMG a crafter is allowed to add magical abilities to an item with no restriction at double the cost. So if you want gauntlets of giant strength (+2) and dexterity (+2)that would cost you 8000 GP. Me: Oh, just a little nitpick, when adding additional properties to the same item, the extra properties cost double like you said, so Gauntlets of Str and Dex +2 would be 12000 and not 8000 right? (4000 for the first property, +2 str, and 8000 for the second, +2 dex). DM: The item creation on p.246 of the DMG uses a +2 ring of of protection and invisibility as an example. The ring costs double the most expensive property on it, double the price of a ring of invisibility. So +2 str +2 dex guantlets would cost only 8000 GP. Me: About the item creation thingy, while it would be in my best interest to just agree with you, i'm still going to try and explain why i disagree! (Honesty is one of my many good qualities!) When adding a second power to an item that already has one, you add double the cost of the second one, but you also STILL pay the cost for the first one! So in the example used on page 246 of the dmg, where they add the invisibility to the ring of protection +2, you pay twice the price for invisibility, IN ADDITION to the price of the ring of protection +2! Nowhere does it say the item costs twice the price of the most expensive power, they only say that ADDING invisibility to the ring of prot +2 costs twice the invisibility power! You do not get the first power for free, just because you pay double for the second! Think about it, if it worked that way, gloves of str and dex +2 would cost exactly the same as a pair of gloves of dex +2 and a pair of gauntlets of str +2! The whole idea of doubling the price for extra powers on the same item is that you pay MORE for the benefit of sparing an item slot! DM: Neverborn: I'm not sure if that's correct because the all it says is twice the cost of a ring of invisibility. It becomes prohibitively expensive to stack things even at that rate. It would probably be a good question to bring up on the spells and magic item board and see what we get as replies, in this thread I'll give the most advantageous interpretation to the warriors. Me: Hey DM, You are right in that the spells and magic items board is a good place for it, when i have the time, i'll post it there! One last reply, and i'll shut up about it in this thread, and let you get back to doing the challenge! In the example we talked about, they mention the cost of adding invisibility to a ring of protection +2, and they only mention the cost of the invisibility as you said, however, they start out with a ring of prot +2, just for the example! Now when creating a character, you cannot simply say: "Alright, i'm going to buy/craft a ring of Protection +2 that also has the invisibility power, so i'll just start with this ring of protection +2 that just dropped from the sky, and add/have someone add the invisibility power to it!" It just does not work that way, first the ring of prot has to be created (and payed for), and then another power can be added to it at double the price! That's the way I look at it at least, which does not mean that this HAS to be the correct inerpretation, but it makes sense to me... Well... there you have it, those of you who bothered to read all the way through this can now tell me i'm right! ;)
Seeker95 06-12-04, 09:40 PM	If you're upgrading an item, take the new complete item price and subtract the original item price to determine the cost of the upgrade. If you are adding a completely unrelated ability to an existing item, The new ability is added at 150% of its normal price. Gloves of dexterity are 4,000gp. (affinity) Gauntlets of strength are 4,000gp. (affinity) Gloves of strength are 6,000gp. (non-affinity) Gauntlets of dexterity are 6,000gp. (non-affinity) Making gauntlets or gloves of dexterity and strength will cost (Initial power) + (New power * 1.5) = 13,000gp Part of the problem you are facing is that rings do not suffer affinity problems. They are a slotted item with no affinity requirement. However, to the question of adding a new power to an existing item... to do this, you must first have an existing item. Of course, there is nothing wrong with making the existing item and adding the power to it all at the same time. Make the ring of protection +2 and add invisibility to it.
Neverborn 06-13-04, 06:02 AM	Oh, silly me, i forgot to mention we are talking about 3.0! And the discussion was about adding an additional power to an item that uses up a slot on the body...
Neverborn 06-13-04, 06:06 AM	Originally posted by Seeker95 However, to the question of adding a new power to an existing item... to do this, you must first have an existing item. Of course, there is nothing wrong with making the existing item and adding the power to it all at the same time. Make the ring of protection +2 and add invisibility to it. So Seeker, in this case, you DO pay the normal price for the protection +2, and double for the invisibility power, right? (in 3.0) (No matter if you first buy a ring of protection +2 and then sometime later have someone add the power of invisibility to it, or if both powers are added to the ring at the time of creation)
Seeker95 06-13-04, 08:24 AM	Originally posted by Neverborn So Seeker, in this case, you DO pay the normal price for the protection +2, and double for the invisibility power, right?Right. Or the reverse. :D
Neverborn 06-13-04, 12:01 PM	Hehe alright, tnx! :)
deafbymetal 06-16-04, 08:14 PM	O.K., riddle me this- In the DMG under magic item creation, is says "A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword." Huh? Take a +2 Longsword, cost 2,315 gp, and make it into a +2 Vorpal Longsword, cost 98,315 gp. If it were not magical, the cost to create would be +2 (normally 8,000 gp), but to add the Vorpal effect (+5 Base Price), the base price then becomes +7= 98,315 gp, correct? But , take a +2 Vorpal Longsword (cost 98,315 gp), then subtract the cost of a +1 Longsword (2,315 gp), your final cost would then be 96,000 gp, right? Well, which is it. The sentence contradicts itself.
was_fired 06-16-04, 09:43 PM	deaf just use some common sense. You just pay the difference between the new and old costs. In the case of a magical weapon it is 2000(new bonus squared - old bonus squared). So yes it would be 96,000gp. There is no contradiction there.
deafbymetal 06-16-04, 10:18 PM	If my posting was a little complicated, let me simplify. "The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical." So, taking a masterwork (not magical) longsword and making a +7 Base Price weapon cost- 98,315 gp. Later in the same sentence- "equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword." 98,315 gp- 2,315 gp= 96,000 gp. It can only be one or the other. I think the first quoted text should never have been put in in the first place. Now try walking up to someone you've never met and saying "Hey, you. Use some common sense." What do you think the reaction to that statement would be? Pretty rude there, fired.
was_fired 06-16-04, 10:29 PM	I never claimed to be a polite person. If I was I likely wouldn't spend so much time here. The +1 weapon's price just like the +7 weapons price already includes the base weapon's cost. Thus when upgrading can just be ignored since it's already payed.
Seeker95 06-16-04, 10:52 PM	Originally posted by deafbymetal Now try walking up to someone you've never met and saying "Hey, you. Use some common sense." What do you think the reaction to that statement would be? Pretty rude there, fired. If their question was as simple as which bathroom is for men? the answer would be direct. But when the question is phrased: Riddle me this, stranger. The facilities provided for the relief of ones excretory functions is usually segregated into separate areas, each with different sanitation devices to accomodate the differences in biological anatomies. But should I enter the one with the picture of the skirt on the door, or the one without? you are likely to get an answer a little less direct, and certainly one that suggests the asker apply a little common sense.
deafbymetal 06-18-04, 06:22 PM	Whatever. Justify rudeness however you please. Anyway, the original question is unanswered. Try this one instead. "The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical." Take a +5 Longsword (50,315 gp) and make it a +5 Flaming Longsword. It would cost 72,315 gp. But "Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword.." In this case the cost would only be a matter of 12,000 gp (72,315 -50,315)
was_fired 06-18-04, 08:35 PM	What the hell are you talking about? A plus 1 sword longsword is worth 2315gp a +7 longsword is worth 98315gp. 72315gp is the cost of +5 longsword which is not the total bonus on a +2 vorpal longsword. Stop trying to pretend to be clever and just accept that once you have a masterwork weapon the only formula you need to remember is 2000(new bonus squared - old bonus squared). I have grown tired of this if you want to keep reading the rules incorrectly feel free to. Odds are I will never DM you and thus won't have to beat you senseless with the DM's guide.
ORC_Tuhteth 06-18-04, 10:29 PM	Please do not make comments about other posters -- that includes humorous and/or sarcastic comments such as beating someone senseless with a DM Guide. :) Seriously, just be polite and restrict your comments to the topic, not each other. Please review the Code of Conduct (http://www.wizards.com/coc) or ask a WizO if you have any questions.
deafbymetal 06-18-04, 10:46 PM	Those little marks- " - are called quotations. In the DM guide it says "A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical." So, you have a +5 Longsword, worth 50,315 gp, you want to upgrade it to a +5 Flaming Longsword. Treat it as non-magical, and the cost would be 72,000. My mistake to keep including the cost of the weapon after the initial purchase. I'm man enough to admit mistakes. Here comes those pesky marks again. They mean the following comes from another source. "Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword,with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword." Same weapon as above, a +5 Longsword, worth 50,315 gp. Make it into a +5 FLaming Longsword, worth 72,315 gp. The cost to create being equal to that of a (+5 Flaming) Longsword (72,000) minus the cost of a (+5) Longsword (50,0000). This comes to 12,000 gp. I am glad you are not my DM as well. I would rather have my teeth pulled out with blasting caps. This is my last posting on this subject. I do not care what your reply is, threaten somebody else with your DM guide from a 1000 miles away if that makes you feel good. Bull**** tough guy posturing is for schoolyards.