Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ninja1 04-15-04, 10:32 AM	So I'm trying to wrap my head around this concept... from the 3.5 SRD: ADDING NEW ABILITIES A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword. So lets say I want to make an item that can cast a number of fireballs per day (at the lowest caster level possible). I'd use the equation of: (Spell level) (caster level) (1800 command word activated) / (5 / number of daily charges) So for my "per day fireball item" it would be (3)(5)(1800)/(5/#). # of uses per day / market value 1 / 5400 2 / 10800 3 / 16200 4 / 21600 5 / 27000 6 / 32400 7 / 37800 8 / 43200 9 / 48600 10 / 54000 So now I see that the difference in market values for the next step will be linear. It will always 5,400gp for our example. So to make it with one use per day it would have a market value of 5400. Then to upgrade it to two uses per day, it would have an additional 5400 to market value (and so on)... Does this sound reasonable?
Krelios 04-15-04, 10:35 AM	Yes, I think that's exactly right. It's easier to do weapons and armor since their progression charts are essentially done for you, but the mechanic is the same.
ninja1 04-15-04, 10:46 AM	Yeah, but with weapons and armor the market value progression is exponential. With per day items it is linear... Maybe that's what's bugging me?
tarkin 04-15-04, 01:01 PM	1) You got the math right. 2) You are using the pricing GUIDELINES (not rules). 2A) Magic Items should be approved as viable by the DM before you even think about applying these pricing guidelines. 2B) These guidelines are notorious for working poorly with items that have but one ability that is x/day. Think twice (or thrice) before using them, to make sure you are not abusing them. 2C) 5 or more times per day = at will pricing. 3) You are doing permanent Magic Items the "bad" way. Magic Items do not cast spells. Scrolls complete spells, wands/staves trigger them, and other items have effects that are similar to spells. As such, for permanent magic items, the bad way is to pick a spell and have it do the spell. The good way to do it is to design a magical effect than pick the spells that are closes to it for pre-reqs and pricing purposes. Example of good item similar to what you want: Fireball sling: Ability, once per day upon command you can launch a sling stone which transforms into a fireball pea after leaving the sling. The fireball does 5d6 of damage, centered on the intended target square, which must be within 100 ft. When using the sling in this manner, no to hit roll is required (and the sling bullet does no damage), unless attempting to fire the slingstone through a small hole (similar to the spell fireball.) This is a +3 enchantment applicable to any ranged weapon. Pre:reqs Fireball. Caster level 5 Notice as I choose a weapon, I used the weapon pricing system, not a spell level x caster level. Also notice the 100ft limit not normally on the fireball spell.
ninja1 04-15-04, 02:35 PM	Hi tarkin, 1) thank you :) 2) absolutely correct 2A) under most conditions, this is true (I sometimes like the exercise, just to see what those guidelines can do, also I am the DM for my group :) ) 2B) absolutely correct (and also a good rhyme!) 2C) 5 or more times per day may be equivalent numerically to "at will" pricing but I would argue that it is not the same thing somantically. For example, I would never make a custom item that used an istantaneous spell "at will". I would only apply "command activated / continuous use" numbers to items that use spells with a duration. 3) I would disagree here. I do not think that this is an example of doing permanent Magic Items in a bad way. Some Magic Items do cast spells. The examples used in the guidelines themselves are magic items that can cast spells a number of times per day (Cape of the Mountebank and Boots of Teleportation). In those cases, the boots are priced very closely to the guidelines while the cape is priced at 1/3rd of the guidelines. I would agree that Scrolls complete spells, wands/staves trigger them, and other items have effects that are similar to spells. The above examples are other items with effects that are similar to spells. Only in those cases, you could just as easily say that they are magic items that do cast spells. I wouldn't say that it is bad to pick a spell and begin researching item creation for an item to do the spell. I do agree that a good way to do it is to design a magical effect, then pick the spells that are close to it for pre-reqs and pricing, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't be done the other way around. It might be that a wiz/sorc just wants an item that can cast a number of his/her offensive spells per day without worrying about charges or spell completion drawing AoO. (all that being said, I really like your Fireball sling :) )