Advice about carrying characters through Dimension Door [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice about carrying characters through Dimension Door [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
elijahmonster
08-31-07, 04:01 AM Dimension Door states that a player may bring his equipment through the dimension door as well as 1 extra person for every three levels plus that character's equipment.

One player would like to place another player character into a bag of holding and carry the bag through the dimension door in order to bypass the restriction on the number of persons to be allowed through the dimension door.

Player argument:
1) One argument to support this proposition is that the character in the bag of holding is not being carried through. The point of entry into the extra dimensional space is being carried through the dimension door.

2) Another argument to counteract the power imbalance of bypassing the spells restrictions is that the characters have to set up the spell scheme first before enacting the spell thereby causing a 10 round preparation prior to dimension door travel and 5 rounds regrouping afterward.

DM argument:
1) Dimension door was not intended to carry more than 1 character per 3 levels and to go above that would be to bypass the necessary restrictions on the spell.

2) Dimension door only carries the equipment of the character. If the player character is not considered equipment (and sentient beings are not equipment) then the scheme will not function. (argument 2 is almost argument one)

3) the policy of allowing players to bypass spell restrictions through minute semantic exceptions is dangerous because it could lead to long term eradication of power controls in the game.

What do you think? Is there an errata or other publication to explain the effects of carrying a bag of holding with a player character inside through a dimension door in order to bypass the level restriction on the number of being passing through the spell?
Dheran
08-31-07, 05:04 AM Dimension Door is a teleportation spell.
Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane.You're traveling through the space the Bag of Holding uses as its dumping spot when something goes very wrong:Bag of Holding

If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process. Your DM may decide to put 2 and 2 together and get

kaboom.

I wouldn't try this with one of my friends.
Pindar
08-31-07, 08:06 AM Dimension Door is a teleportation spell.
You're traveling through the space the Bag of Holding uses as its dumping spot when something goes very wrong: Your DM may decide to put 2 and 2 together and get

kaboom.

I wouldn't try this with one of my friends.

So you think players shouldn't be allowed to teleport carrying their equipment in a bag of holding without having all their equipment scattered across the Astral Plane?

I allow this fudge in my game to let one extra person teleport.

It has never caused any power balance problems.
Grumman
08-31-07, 09:43 AM Dimension Door is a teleportation spell.
You're traveling through the space the Bag of Holding uses as its dumping spot when something goes very wrong: Your DM may decide to put 2 and 2 together and get

kaboom.
Only if he's a jerk. For starters, Bags of Holding don't use the Astral Plane as a dumping spot unless something goes wrong. Secondly, if you couldn't safely carry a Portable Hole while teleporting (a ruling that makes them next to useless in a medium- to high-level party), why wouldn't it mention this in the DMG?

For the OP: The only question I would have about the situation is to make sure you're using a nondimensional space large enough for the passenger to get into. If he can, teleport away.
Nom
08-31-07, 10:12 AM The main problem with this strategy is: how do you stuff another character into a bag of holding?

A portable hole would work just fine, though.
tarkin
08-31-07, 11:04 AM I agree with Nom.

There is nothing preventing you from teleporting a bag of holding, and all of it's contents.

Similarly you can teleport a Portable hole, or a Ring Gate.
mvincent
08-31-07, 12:13 PM There is nothing preventing you from teleporting a bag of holding, and all of it's contents.Correct. The "teleport with PC's in a bag of holding" trick is fairly common. From a recent WotC article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/bs/20030720a):
"bag of holding and necklace of adaptation could turn any willing celestial into a taxi service or at least a teleporting messenger or transporter."
Dheran
08-31-07, 12:54 PM You're traveling through the space the Bag of Holding uses as its dumping spot when something goes very wrong. Your DM may decide to put 2 and 2 together and get

kaboom.

I wouldn't try this with one of my friends. The reason I wouldn't try this is:If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever. Can you guarantee that your friends don't have unfiled fingernails, sharp belt buckles, or rocks stuck in their boots? This is just a disaster waiting to happen. And since you're simultaneously traveling through the Astral plane when this accident can happen, the contents would likely not only get lost, but get spread out so that the lost PCs and their gear would be far apart on the Astral plane.
Toki_Wartooth
08-31-07, 12:59 PM The reason I wouldn't try this is: Can you guarantee that your friends don't have unfiled fingernails, sharp belt buckles, or rocks stuck in their boots? This is just a disaster waiting to happen.That is one of lamest things I've read.
Nephlite
08-31-07, 01:41 PM Either way, won't the guy in the back suffocate: how does one determine amount of air in the bag?
tarkin
08-31-07, 01:42 PM Teleportation is quick, not slow

If you can't hold your breath for the amount of time to get into and out of the bag, you are not healthy enough to be an adventurer anyway.

Even if there are multiple people doing it.
mvincent
08-31-07, 02:07 PM how does one determine amount of air in the bag?The rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bagofHolding) say:
"If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate."
ArcTan
08-31-07, 02:30 PM 2) Dimension door only carries the equipment of the character. If the player character is not considered equipment (and sentient beings are not equipment) then the scheme will not function. (argument 2 is almost argument one)

Sentient beings can be equipment. What do you think intelligent items are?

3) the policy of allowing players to bypass spell restrictions through minute semantic exceptions is dangerous because it could lead to long term eradication of power controls in the game.

What do you think? Is there an errata or other publication to explain the effects of carrying a bag of holding with a player character inside through a dimension door in order to bypass the level restriction on the number of being passing through the spell?

I think the fact that a bag of holding has very little room in it and that you can't stay in it too long without suffocating is a fine balancing factor here.

Also, if they're going in there with their equipment, they better do something about any sharp blades they may be carrying.
LazyNinja
08-31-07, 02:49 PM That is one of lamest things I've read.

But it's true. I'm always inadvertently destroying my backpacks because I forgot to sheathe my pencil, or tearing holes in my gym bag with my stubble. One time I dropped a slice of pizza on my laundry bag and it ignited.
mvincent
08-31-07, 03:03 PM But it's true. I'm always inadvertently destroying my backpacks because I forgot to sheathe my pencil, or tearing holes in my gym bag with my stubble. One time I dropped a slice of pizza on my laundry bag and it ignited.That's only because you have Real Ultimate Power! (http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
elijahmonster 08-31-07, 04:01 AM	Dimension Door states that a player may bring his equipment through the dimension door as well as 1 extra person for every three levels plus that character's equipment. One player would like to place another player character into a bag of holding and carry the bag through the dimension door in order to bypass the restriction on the number of persons to be allowed through the dimension door. Player argument: 1) One argument to support this proposition is that the character in the bag of holding is not being carried through. The point of entry into the extra dimensional space is being carried through the dimension door. 2) Another argument to counteract the power imbalance of bypassing the spells restrictions is that the characters have to set up the spell scheme first before enacting the spell thereby causing a 10 round preparation prior to dimension door travel and 5 rounds regrouping afterward. DM argument: 1) Dimension door was not intended to carry more than 1 character per 3 levels and to go above that would be to bypass the necessary restrictions on the spell. 2) Dimension door only carries the equipment of the character. If the player character is not considered equipment (and sentient beings are not equipment) then the scheme will not function. (argument 2 is almost argument one) 3) the policy of allowing players to bypass spell restrictions through minute semantic exceptions is dangerous because it could lead to long term eradication of power controls in the game. What do you think? Is there an errata or other publication to explain the effects of carrying a bag of holding with a player character inside through a dimension door in order to bypass the level restriction on the number of being passing through the spell?
Dheran 08-31-07, 05:04 AM	Dimension Door is a teleportation spell. Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane.You're traveling through the space the Bag of Holding uses as its dumping spot when something goes very wrong:Bag of Holding If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process. Your DM may decide to put 2 and 2 together and get kaboom. I wouldn't try this with one of my friends.
Pindar 08-31-07, 08:06 AM	Dimension Door is a teleportation spell. You're traveling through the space the Bag of Holding uses as its dumping spot when something goes very wrong: Your DM may decide to put 2 and 2 together and get kaboom. I wouldn't try this with one of my friends. So you think players shouldn't be allowed to teleport carrying their equipment in a bag of holding without having all their equipment scattered across the Astral Plane? I allow this fudge in my game to let one extra person teleport. It has never caused any power balance problems.
Grumman 08-31-07, 09:43 AM	Dimension Door is a teleportation spell. You're traveling through the space the Bag of Holding uses as its dumping spot when something goes very wrong: Your DM may decide to put 2 and 2 together and get kaboom. Only if he's a jerk. For starters, Bags of Holding don't use the Astral Plane as a dumping spot unless something goes wrong. Secondly, if you couldn't safely carry a Portable Hole while teleporting (a ruling that makes them next to useless in a medium- to high-level party), why wouldn't it mention this in the DMG? For the OP: The only question I would have about the situation is to make sure you're using a nondimensional space large enough for the passenger to get into. If he can, teleport away.
Nom 08-31-07, 10:12 AM	The main problem with this strategy is: how do you stuff another character into a bag of holding? A portable hole would work just fine, though.
tarkin 08-31-07, 11:04 AM	I agree with Nom. There is nothing preventing you from teleporting a bag of holding, and all of it's contents. Similarly you can teleport a Portable hole, or a Ring Gate.
mvincent 08-31-07, 12:13 PM	There is nothing preventing you from teleporting a bag of holding, and all of it's contents.Correct. The "teleport with PC's in a bag of holding" trick is fairly common. From a recent WotC article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/bs/20030720a): "bag of holding and necklace of adaptation could turn any willing celestial into a taxi service or at least a teleporting messenger or transporter."
Dheran 08-31-07, 12:54 PM	You're traveling through the space the Bag of Holding uses as its dumping spot when something goes very wrong. Your DM may decide to put 2 and 2 together and get kaboom. I wouldn't try this with one of my friends. The reason I wouldn't try this is:If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever. Can you guarantee that your friends don't have unfiled fingernails, sharp belt buckles, or rocks stuck in their boots? This is just a disaster waiting to happen. And since you're simultaneously traveling through the Astral plane when this accident can happen, the contents would likely not only get lost, but get spread out so that the lost PCs and their gear would be far apart on the Astral plane.
Toki_Wartooth 08-31-07, 12:59 PM	The reason I wouldn't try this is: Can you guarantee that your friends don't have unfiled fingernails, sharp belt buckles, or rocks stuck in their boots? This is just a disaster waiting to happen.That is one of lamest things I've read.
Nephlite 08-31-07, 01:41 PM	Either way, won't the guy in the back suffocate: how does one determine amount of air in the bag?
tarkin 08-31-07, 01:42 PM	Teleportation is quick, not slow If you can't hold your breath for the amount of time to get into and out of the bag, you are not healthy enough to be an adventurer anyway. Even if there are multiple people doing it.
mvincent 08-31-07, 02:07 PM	how does one determine amount of air in the bag?The rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bagofHolding) say: "If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate."
ArcTan 08-31-07, 02:30 PM	2) Dimension door only carries the equipment of the character. If the player character is not considered equipment (and sentient beings are not equipment) then the scheme will not function. (argument 2 is almost argument one) Sentient beings can be equipment. What do you think intelligent items are? 3) the policy of allowing players to bypass spell restrictions through minute semantic exceptions is dangerous because it could lead to long term eradication of power controls in the game. What do you think? Is there an errata or other publication to explain the effects of carrying a bag of holding with a player character inside through a dimension door in order to bypass the level restriction on the number of being passing through the spell? I think the fact that a bag of holding has very little room in it and that you can't stay in it too long without suffocating is a fine balancing factor here. Also, if they're going in there with their equipment, they better do something about any sharp blades they may be carrying.
LazyNinja 08-31-07, 02:49 PM	That is one of lamest things I've read. But it's true. I'm always inadvertently destroying my backpacks because I forgot to sheathe my pencil, or tearing holes in my gym bag with my stubble. One time I dropped a slice of pizza on my laundry bag and it ignited.
mvincent 08-31-07, 03:03 PM	But it's true. I'm always inadvertently destroying my backpacks because I forgot to sheathe my pencil, or tearing holes in my gym bag with my stubble. One time I dropped a slice of pizza on my laundry bag and it ignited.That's only because you have Real Ultimate Power! (http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm)