Advice for a Dwarven Wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice for a Dwarven Wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Outlier
02-22-05, 06:45 PM I'm making a dwarven wizard with 10k XP an 9k gold to play in an ongoing Faerun campaign. When it comes to equipping him with magic items, I could use some advice and suggestions. I also had a couple of questions about the item crafting rules: With the Craft Wondrous Item feat, what can you *not* do? i.e. what do you need other feats to accomplish? Put another way, why can't I make a 'boom stick' that does exactly what a wand does, or even a 'boom stick of infinite charges' for just twice the cost?

I started trying to make items to allow frequent use of common low-level spell effects, and they all came out with prices that seemed way to low [1260gp for a wizard-only unlimited use 1st level spell device]. What am I missing?

Before you tell me to ask my DM, he's more of a novice than I am, and just said to 'go by the book'.
Seeker95
02-22-05, 07:31 PM What you are missing is balance. DM's are the ones to apply price reductions. Not players. And applying a price reduction should be done with an eye toward balance -- not affordability.

Since your DM told you to go by the book, I recommend you only pick out items from the book. That will make your life easier. And your inexperienced DM's as well.
Outlier
02-23-05, 10:54 AM You made good points of course, Seeker95, but with no flamage intended, its a bit like telling the mechanic that your car is making a suspicious noise, and having him suggest you take the bus. Since inventing and testing items is central to the character concept, using stock items isn't an attractive solution. My objective here is to obtain accurate costs for novel items from the rules as written, which is what the DM said to do. Are you basically saying the rules won't support playing this kind of character?
Ringrose
02-23-05, 11:14 AM I would look into the Rule of the Game articles on making magic items...

http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/rg

I would look into the RuneCaster Prestige class from Races of Stone (take one level of fighter for the bonus feats (Heavy Armor and Tower shield Prof)...I always see my Dwarf Wizards now as wearing Heavy Armor...casting behind a large shield (with the appropriate feats (shielded casting Ect.)...
...with that little bit of money...I would spend it on Mithral Full Plate and a Mithral Full Shield (or Mithral Tower Shield)...
Outlier
02-23-05, 11:56 AM Thanks, Ringrose. That link is great - I'm still a bit confused on when a person would ever need to make something as a wand rather than a wondrous item, though.

As for the Runecaster, I looked at that, but it just doesn't fit my character well. He is supposed to be a craftsman - whipping up mundane tools and magic items to do problem solving for the most part, and blasting away with items when he has to. Runecaster doesn't advance that character concept at all - from my prospective it just hits me with a 20% experience penalty *and* loss of a caster level just so I can get an AC a few places better. Now Maester, Artificer, and Runesmith all looked good, but I can't play those for various reasons (not a gnome, not in Eberron, and just don't want to play a cleric). The example arcane smith from Races of Stone is a straight wizard, so I just went with that.
Beamup
02-23-05, 12:03 PM My objective here is to obtain accurate costs for novel items from the rules as written, which is what the DM said to do. Are you basically saying the rules won't support playing this kind of character?
They certainly will support it. When you apply the rules as written. Which state that the price of any new magic item is always determined by the DM on a case-by-case basis.

That table you're trying to use as "the rules as written?" That is NOTHING more than a suggested set of starting points that the DM may choose to consider in his thinking. Those are not rules.

Simply blindly going by the table does not work. It will inevitably end up breaking the game when you end up with badly overpowered items.

If your DM is not sufficiently experienced to price new magic items on his own, then creating custom magical items simply will not work in that campaign. It can't be done.
tarkin
02-23-05, 12:05 PM Here is my advice:

1) NEVER think a regular item casts spells. They don't. ONly an intelligent item casts spells. Magic items have magical effects SIMILAR to the spells they use as pre-reqs.

2) spell level x caster level is the pricing method of LAST restort (except for charged items). Do not try to use it untill you have looked for other pricing methods. As in consult this chart BEFORE you do anything else:

Ability bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared x 1,000 gp Gloves of Dexterity +2
Armor bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared x 1,000 gp +1 chainmail
Bonus spell Spell level squared x 1,000 gp Pearl of power
AC bonus (deflection) Bonus squared x 2,000 gp Ring of protection +3
AC bonus (other)1 Bonus squared x 2,500 gp Ioun stone, dusty rose prism
Natural armor bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared x 2,000 gp Amulet of natural armor +1
Save bonus (resistance) Bonus squared x 1,000 gp Cloak of resistance +5
Save bonus (other)1 Bonus squared x 2,000 gp Stone of good luck
Skill bonus (competence) Bonus squared x 100 gp Cloak of elvenkind
Spell resistance 10,000 gp per point over SR 12; SR 13 minimum Mantle of spell resistance
Weapon bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared x 2,000 gp +1 longsword

3) In general, unlimited instantenous duration or attack items (such as a ring of fireballs, unlimited use) are a BAD idea. Don't make them. (Not everything is possible to make). If you HAVE to make one, start at a price of about 3x the cost of a wand that just does it. They cause more problems than they solve.

4) 1/day items that have ONLY one power tend to also be abusive. Why? Because the powers you want 1/day usually are only needed 1/day so it is not a real limitation to make it 1/day and you don't deserve the 1/5 pricing.
Items with multiple powers have other limiting factors, so often they are fair to make 1/day powers.

5) NEVER make a magic item to negate a weakness of the spell. The best you should do is modify the weakness. Example: Major weakness of True Sight is that you don't know when you need it and it has a short duration. So when they made a gem of True Sight, they limited it to 30 minutes per day, dividable as the user sees fit. This means it can still pretty much be used for the entire day in almost all circumstances, but you can't use it all the time.
Another example is True Strike. This spell's weakness is it takes two rounds to get a certain hit and normally you should hit anyway with 2 rounds to attack. So any affect that grants it should start with it taking a round to activate and next round you get a single attack. Even then, the +20 to hit means you should be using bonus to hit ^2, making the price way too high.

6) In general, don't make items with "restrictions on who can use", besides the restriction of having the spell on your list. Things like race only, alignment only are often BENEFITS not restrictions, as they prevent your enemies from taking it from you and using it against you. Yes, the rules exist, but consider them to be for Expert magic item makers only.
Outlier
02-23-05, 01:37 PM Thanks guys. From what you've said, I may have chosen unwisely when I picked this character to play. There seem to be a large number of pitfalls to avoid in item design, and dancing around them may suck a lot of the fun out of the process. If I want to continue with this character concept, I need to stick to charged items, items that give bonuses, or extremely close variants of standard items and hope that DM and I gain experience quickly without too many blunders. Is armor & weapon manufacture as problematic?
Beamup
02-23-05, 02:13 PM No, weapons and armor are pretty simple. You pick the enhancements you want off the list, and the price is set. Charged items are similarly simple. It's when you start making custom Wonderous Items and Rings that you run into trouble.

In all seriousness, I would advise you to put this character concept on the shelf until you and your DM have gained more experience. You can always come back to it later.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Outlier 02-22-05, 06:45 PM	I'm making a dwarven wizard with 10k XP an 9k gold to play in an ongoing Faerun campaign. When it comes to equipping him with magic items, I could use some advice and suggestions. I also had a couple of questions about the item crafting rules: With the Craft Wondrous Item feat, what can you not do? i.e. what do you need other feats to accomplish? Put another way, why can't I make a 'boom stick' that does exactly what a wand does, or even a 'boom stick of infinite charges' for just twice the cost? I started trying to make items to allow frequent use of common low-level spell effects, and they all came out with prices that seemed way to low [1260gp for a wizard-only unlimited use 1st level spell device]. What am I missing? Before you tell me to ask my DM, he's more of a novice than I am, and just said to 'go by the book'.
Seeker95 02-22-05, 07:31 PM	What you are missing is balance. DM's are the ones to apply price reductions. Not players. And applying a price reduction should be done with an eye toward balance -- not affordability. Since your DM told you to go by the book, I recommend you only pick out items from the book. That will make your life easier. And your inexperienced DM's as well.
Outlier 02-23-05, 10:54 AM	You made good points of course, Seeker95, but with no flamage intended, its a bit like telling the mechanic that your car is making a suspicious noise, and having him suggest you take the bus. Since inventing and testing items is central to the character concept, using stock items isn't an attractive solution. My objective here is to obtain accurate costs for novel items from the rules as written, which is what the DM said to do. Are you basically saying the rules won't support playing this kind of character?
Ringrose 02-23-05, 11:14 AM	I would look into the Rule of the Game articles on making magic items... http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/rg I would look into the RuneCaster Prestige class from Races of Stone (take one level of fighter for the bonus feats (Heavy Armor and Tower shield Prof)...I always see my Dwarf Wizards now as wearing Heavy Armor...casting behind a large shield (with the appropriate feats (shielded casting Ect.)... ...with that little bit of money...I would spend it on Mithral Full Plate and a Mithral Full Shield (or Mithral Tower Shield)...
Outlier 02-23-05, 11:56 AM	Thanks, Ringrose. That link is great - I'm still a bit confused on when a person would ever need to make something as a wand rather than a wondrous item, though. As for the Runecaster, I looked at that, but it just doesn't fit my character well. He is supposed to be a craftsman - whipping up mundane tools and magic items to do problem solving for the most part, and blasting away with items when he has to. Runecaster doesn't advance that character concept at all - from my prospective it just hits me with a 20% experience penalty and loss of a caster level just so I can get an AC a few places better. Now Maester, Artificer, and Runesmith all looked good, but I can't play those for various reasons (not a gnome, not in Eberron, and just don't want to play a cleric). The example arcane smith from Races of Stone is a straight wizard, so I just went with that.
Beamup 02-23-05, 12:03 PM	My objective here is to obtain accurate costs for novel items from the rules as written, which is what the DM said to do. Are you basically saying the rules won't support playing this kind of character? They certainly will support it. When you apply the rules as written. Which state that the price of any new magic item is always determined by the DM on a case-by-case basis. That table you're trying to use as "the rules as written?" That is NOTHING more than a suggested set of starting points that the DM may choose to consider in his thinking. Those are not rules. Simply blindly going by the table does not work. It will inevitably end up breaking the game when you end up with badly overpowered items. If your DM is not sufficiently experienced to price new magic items on his own, then creating custom magical items simply will not work in that campaign. It can't be done.
tarkin 02-23-05, 12:05 PM	Here is my advice: 1) NEVER think a regular item casts spells. They don't. ONly an intelligent item casts spells. Magic items have magical effects SIMILAR to the spells they use as pre-reqs. 2) spell level x caster level is the pricing method of LAST restort (except for charged items). Do not try to use it untill you have looked for other pricing methods. As in consult this chart BEFORE you do anything else: Ability bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared x 1,000 gp Gloves of Dexterity +2 Armor bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared x 1,000 gp +1 chainmail Bonus spell Spell level squared x 1,000 gp Pearl of power AC bonus (deflection) Bonus squared x 2,000 gp Ring of protection +3 AC bonus (other)1 Bonus squared x 2,500 gp Ioun stone, dusty rose prism Natural armor bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared x 2,000 gp Amulet of natural armor +1 Save bonus (resistance) Bonus squared x 1,000 gp Cloak of resistance +5 Save bonus (other)1 Bonus squared x 2,000 gp Stone of good luck Skill bonus (competence) Bonus squared x 100 gp Cloak of elvenkind Spell resistance 10,000 gp per point over SR 12; SR 13 minimum Mantle of spell resistance Weapon bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared x 2,000 gp +1 longsword 3) In general, unlimited instantenous duration or attack items (such as a ring of fireballs, unlimited use) are a BAD idea. Don't make them. (Not everything is possible to make). If you HAVE to make one, start at a price of about 3x the cost of a wand that just does it. They cause more problems than they solve. 4) 1/day items that have ONLY one power tend to also be abusive. Why? Because the powers you want 1/day usually are only needed 1/day so it is not a real limitation to make it 1/day and you don't deserve the 1/5 pricing. Items with multiple powers have other limiting factors, so often they are fair to make 1/day powers. 5) NEVER make a magic item to negate a weakness of the spell. The best you should do is modify the weakness. Example: Major weakness of True Sight is that you don't know when you need it and it has a short duration. So when they made a gem of True Sight, they limited it to 30 minutes per day, dividable as the user sees fit. This means it can still pretty much be used for the entire day in almost all circumstances, but you can't use it all the time. Another example is True Strike. This spell's weakness is it takes two rounds to get a certain hit and normally you should hit anyway with 2 rounds to attack. So any affect that grants it should start with it taking a round to activate and next round you get a single attack. Even then, the +20 to hit means you should be using bonus to hit ^2, making the price way too high. 6) In general, don't make items with "restrictions on who can use", besides the restriction of having the spell on your list. Things like race only, alignment only are often BENEFITS not restrictions, as they prevent your enemies from taking it from you and using it against you. Yes, the rules exist, but consider them to be for Expert magic item makers only.
Outlier 02-23-05, 01:37 PM	Thanks guys. From what you've said, I may have chosen unwisely when I picked this character to play. There seem to be a large number of pitfalls to avoid in item design, and dancing around them may suck a lot of the fun out of the process. If I want to continue with this character concept, I need to stick to charged items, items that give bonuses, or extremely close variants of standard items and hope that DM and I gain experience quickly without too many blunders. Is armor & weapon manufacture as problematic?
Beamup 02-23-05, 02:13 PM	No, weapons and armor are pretty simple. You pick the enhancements you want off the list, and the price is set. Charged items are similarly simple. It's when you start making custom Wonderous Items and Rings that you run into trouble. In all seriousness, I would advise you to put this character concept on the shelf until you and your DM have gained more experience. You can always come back to it later.